Ram Powerwagon vs Chevy Colorado vs Jeep Wrangler Rubicon vs Suzuki Samurai for Snow?

[nickw]

Ok.....so we are finally getting down to it.....you have never run large tires personally and you are basing most of your opinion around odd experiences.
Man I really get disappointed when people do that.

I've logged nearly 100k miles in my Dodge driving in and out of every kinda of 'driveway' that you can imagine. I live in SW Colorado in an area that gets feet and feet of snow.
I'm not being theoretical on this.....I put the time in behind the wheel in the exact conditions you are mentioning, I'm not guessing.

All these rigs are legal to drive on the road in my state (and the entire USA being non-commercial). These are not trailer only vehicles. I daily drove them for years in all seasons...
I'm sorry if where you live sucks for vehicles.

To the OPs question.
Larger tires will get you further up the trail in deep snow. Period. You only need to be experienced enough to select the proper tire pressure and driving technique.

There are a multitude of ways to get very large tires on most of the vehicles listed even for restrictive states if that is what you want.
AEV makes a fender package that allows a 40" tire for the Dodge Powerwagon with only a 2" lift.
Fitting up to 38-39" tires on a Jeep JLU these days is simple with a little fender flare trimming and a small lift.
etc. etc.

Tire pressure ALWAYS helps. Digging 'down' to traction only works in a VERY small number of mild circumstances and conditions. Airing down always helps.
If you can 'dig' down to traction with the tires aired up.....you can dig down to traction with the tires aired down. There is very little difference in those cases in practical application.
I would MUCH rather air down than try and 'dig'. Airing down burns a ton less fuel than trying to 'dig' or use chains.
Airing up and down takes about the same time as chains also if we want to make that comparison.

If you want to say that you like small tires because you don't 'need' big tires for what you do, that is just fine. This isn't for everyone.
That is why I specifically asked the OP what he was looking for....he said DEEP snow. ( not all the other typically stuff, where yes, small tires can work just fine )
Large tires aren't for everyone, but they can get you WAY back into places that most other people aren't going to get into.
You better have your skills and gear dialed in for when you do finally find the limits, because not many people are going to be able to come help you.

Cheers.

LOL - I knew you were going there, no surprise. Have you experimented with tall narrow proper winter tires? Fact remains, none of us need to take a Prius to the Rubicon to know it won't work and I don't need to experiment with extremes to understand the concept since I have experience with moderate size AT's and narrower AT's...I don't need 40's on my Ranger to understand fringe use case.

I'll say it again, that big dodge wouldn't make it up the hill to my neighborhood, mud tires like that are worthless at best and downright dangerous at worst in glazed snow. Dry packed fluff is one thing, but you don't need big tires for that.

"If you can 'dig' down to traction with the tires aired up.."...well with bigger tires you may not be able too, you may not get all the way down which can cause problems, to my point.

Big tires are not for everyone, you are correct, like all the DOT workers and loggers around here that do it for a living and are on the clock and run narrow tires

Again - reverting to OP and the theme of this thread and my post....conditions matter, context matters and 'generally' speaking, bigger & wider tires don't inherently work better outside of specific circumstances and can be much worse in a lot of 'normal' scenarious.

 

[nickw]

Here is a pretty good example of narrow tires doing well in "DEEP" snow:


Seems like only in the US that people need (or want) huge tires to do relatively normal things, I remember the old days of Expo Portal when guys were transitioning to 255/85's when Scott put them on his 04 Taco....now it seems we are going backwards again to the bigger is better mentality....

 

[Metcalf]

LOL - I knew you were going there, no surprise. Have you experimented with tall narrow proper winter tires? Fact remains, none of us need to take a Prius to the Rubicon to know it won't work and I don't need to experiment with extremes to understand the concept since I have experience with moderate size AT's and narrower AT's...I don't need 40's on my Ranger to understand fringe use case.

I'll say it again, that big dodge wouldn't make it up the hill to my neighborhood, mud tires like that are worthless at best and downright dangerous at worst in glazed snow. Dry packed fluff is one thing, but you don't need big tires for that.

"If you can 'dig' down to traction with the tires aired up.."...well with bigger tires you may not be able too, you may not get all the way down which can cause problems, to my point.

Big tires are not for everyone, you are correct, like all the DOT workers and loggers around here that do it for a living and are on the clock and run narrow tires

Again - reverting to OP and the theme of this thread and my post....conditions matter, context matters and 'generally' speaking, bigger & wider tires don't inherently work better outside of specific circumstances and can be much worse in a lot of 'normal' scenarious.

Yes. I have tried skinny tires, more than once. Air pressure still drastically helps.
Every stock vehicle start out with them.....then I modify because I want MORE off road capability.

I'll say it again, you seem to lack the personal experience to judge how big tires work in various conditions.
I'm super happy that little tires work well well for you driving around on driveways.....that was not what the OP was asking.

My Dodge had no issues pushing 'dry packed fluff' snow over the hood with the tires aired down.
.....it sure is a good thing that I never had to drive on 'glazed snow' in 100k miles. Seriously, 'mud tires' where never an issue for that
If you really think you have super different snow and road conditions from everyone else, I got nothing for you....just keep digging holes....

Again....the OP asked ( and I specifically clarified it early on ) about DEEP SNOW performance.
He isn't asking what the best overall compromise would be.
Yes, little tires can get you around through a little bit of snow on your driveway just fine....that is not what I am talking about....
I don't think that was the context of the OPs post, even though you seem to feel the need to bring it back there in every post.

Every rubber tired vehicle used by 'professionals' that is traveling in DEEP SNOW are using LARGE wide tires.
Rolligon, Arctic Trucks, etc.
If you can dig down and get a bit of traction with narrow tire and/or chains....that is not deep snow.

Unless you have something valuable to add from this point forward, I'm about done.
I'd suggest getting some practical real life behind the wheel experience on BOTH sides before you pick a side.
I am constantly trying, and re-evaluating, everything. I own vehicles with normal size tires AND vehicles with big tires currently. I drive both often.

 

[Metcalf]

Here is a pretty good example of narrow tires doing well in "DEEP" snow:


Seems like only in the US that people need (or want) huge tires to do relatively normal things, I remember the old days of Expo Portal when guys were transitioning to 255/85's when Scott put them on his 04 Taco....now it seems we are going backwards again to the bigger is better mentality....

That is not 'deep' snow. That is just over a foot of dry fluff.

Pushing that around is easy, and normal tires work just fine for that....especially when aired down.

Deep snow 'wheeling is where you have ZERO chance of pushing off the bottom.

Go watch some of these guys up in the PNW do some DEEP snow off-camber backcountry crazy snow-wheeling. Let me know how many of them are running tall skinny tires.....

 

[Metcalf]

Deep snow wheeling in Russia......BC Canada.....Greenland....

Can you detect the common theme?

 

[nickw]

Yes. I have tried skinny tires, more than once. Air pressure still drastically helps.
Every stock vehicle start out with them.....then I modify because I want MORE off road capability.

I'll say it again, you seem to lack the personal experience to judge how big tires work in various conditions.
I'm super happy that little tires work well well for you driving around on driveways.....that was not what the OP was asking.

My Dodge had no issues pushing 'dry packed fluff' snow over the hood with the tires aired down.
.....it sure is a good thing that I never had to drive on 'glazed snow' in 100k miles. Seriously, 'mud tires' where never an issue for that
If you really think you have super different snow and road conditions from everyone else, I got nothing for you....just keep digging holes....

Again....the OP asked ( and I specifically clarified it early on ) about DEEP SNOW performance.
He isn't asking what the best overall compromise would be.
Yes, little tires can get you around through a little bit of snow on your driveway just fine....that is not what I am talking about....
I don't think that was the context of the OPs post, even though you seem to feel the need to bring it back there in every post.

Every rubber tired vehicle used by 'professionals' that is traveling in DEEP SNOW are using LARGE wide tires.
Rolligon, Arctic Trucks, etc.
If you can dig down and get a bit of traction with narrow tire and/or chains....that is not deep snow.

Unless you have something valuable to add from this point forward, I'm about done.
I'd suggest getting some practical real life behind the wheel experience on BOTH sides before you pick a side.
I am constantly trying, and re-evaluating, everything. I own vehicles with normal size tires AND vehicles with big tires currently. I drive both often.

LOL - been around the block enough to know. So your in the bigger is better category, got it Doesn't seem to work for most people is most conditions....

You are defining "DEEP" snow as an extreme to try and prove your point and walk things back a bit, I think 2-3' qualifies considering the VEHICLES he was suggesting in the OP, I think you need to re-read what he posted and the rigs in question may help clear it up for you....

 

[nickw]

Deep snow wheeling in Russia......BC Canada.....Greenland....

Can you detect the common theme?

We've already discussed extreme situations.....look at what OP is posting read between the lines, a Jeep on 37's or that big Dodge of yours wouldn't make 2' into one of those 20' deep ice sheets, what's your point?

I think you are right though - no sense talking about this when you are using more and more extreme situations to prove bigger is better.....

 

[Thinman]

jeep

 

[Metcalf]

LOL - been around the block enough to know. So your in the bigger is better category, got it Doesn't seem to work for most people is most conditions....

You are defining "DEEP" snow as an extreme to try and prove your point and walk things back a bit, I think 2-3' qualifies considering the VEHICLES he was suggesting in the OP, I think you need to re-read what he posted and the rigs in question may help clear it up for you....

Keep trying to lower the bar

Yes, bigger tires work better in DEEP snow....especially when properly aired down.
If you aren't airing the tire down, you are missing out on so much performance.

Deep snow is the point where you can no longer push off the bottom, or it becomes in-efficient to do so.
In my experience, this is anything over about 18" of snow ( or just starting to get past the axle centerline on a normal truck tire )

If you take the narrow tire (and/or Chains) 'dig' approach, you will make less headway per unit of fuel and it will be much harder on the vehicle.
You might get lucky in JUST the right snow conditions to be able to push more snow out of the way.....but in those conditions a large tire is still going to work just fine.

What a larger tire does, when properly aired down, is get the vehicle UP on the snow more. The axles drag less, you use less fuel, and it is a LOT easier on the vehicle compared to chains.

Anyone that has EVER tried airing down in snow has figured this out. It really doesn't matter if you are running stock size tires or 54s.
It is very analogous to driving in sand. How many people out there are going to recommend skinny tires and chains for sand?
Once you give up on the narrow margin of being able to push off the bottom, it starts to come together a lot more.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

When I clear snow with my 4X4 tractor, at least any amount over a 8-10", chains are always on. They bite and keep me moving, which allows me to push a good pile of snow. If the the snow is packed or frozen...gotta have chains - Their like cheating! Chains work great in mud also.

For my trucks and 4X4's, with fresh snow on paved and gravel roads, good tires and low pressure work. Packed snow about the same, then come the chains. Off road, really depends on conditions, but chains allow impressive traction in snow and mud! BUT...Make sure one has the right size and type of chains, knows how to install them properly, and know their limits of speed and conditions.

I love the chains on my tractor, it is 2wd but with chains it is like full on beast mode. Same for snow amounts, if they are talking 8"+ or ice I wrestle them on (they are on right now) It is a whole 'nuther level of not playing fair.

Kinda hard compare to a truck though, say a 6k lb 2wd tractor that is tail heavy with 13.6x28 Firestone Field and Road rears and 6.00x16 BKT tri-rib fronts = what in the truck world? I can literally bury my 4wd F-150 in a snow drift, kick it in neutral and drag it out with the tractor. Unhitch, drive the tractor into the offending drift, drop the blade and plow it out steering with the brakes... without chains. It makes no sense. With chains it will waddle thru some pretty gnarly stuff too.

All my trucks ride on 31-32" tires and get around respectably... but I live in Iowa not Siberia and I know different regions have different needs.

 

[nickw]

Keep trying to lower the bar

Yes, bigger tires work better in DEEP snow....especially when properly aired down.
If you aren't airing the tire down, you are missing out on so much performance.

Deep snow is the point where you can no longer push off the bottom, or it becomes in-efficient to do so.
In my experience, this is anything over about 18" of snow ( or just starting to get past the axle centerline on a normal truck tire )

If you take the narrow tire (and/or Chains) 'dig' approach, you will make less headway per unit of fuel and it will be much harder on the vehicle.
You might get lucky in JUST the right snow conditions to be able to push more snow out of the way.....but in those conditions a large tire is still going to work just fine.

What a larger tire does, when properly aired down, is get the vehicle UP on the snow more. The axles drag less, you use less fuel, and it is a LOT easier on the vehicle compared to chains.

Anyone that has EVER tried airing down in snow has figured this out. It really doesn't matter if you are running stock size tires or 54s.
It is very analogous to driving in sand. How many people out there are going to recommend skinny tires and chains for sand?
Once you give up on the narrow margin of being able to push off the bottom, it starts to come together a lot more.

I never said airing down was bad:

" Taking pressure out of tires can help...or hinder depending on the conditions "

It's just not a one size fits all, I air down all the time with great results, it can help with traction, but doesn't turn a narrow tire into a wide tire.

You don't need a huge 54" tire to do well in the sand just ask the Aussies....a tall, narrow, NON aggressive (road biased) tire will do great, you don't see those guys putting on 54" Artic Truck tires on their LC's....

 

[nickw]

I love the chains on my tractor, it is 2wd but with chains it is like full on beast mode. Same for snow amounts, if they are talking 8"+ or ice I wrestle them on (they are on right now) It is a whole 'nuther level of not playing fair.

Kinda hard compare to a truck though, say a 6k lb 2wd tractor that is tail heavy with 13.6x28 Firestone Field and Road rears and 6.00x16 BKT tri-rib fronts = what in the truck world? I can literally bury my 4wd F-150 in a snow drift, kick it in neutral and drag it out with the tractor. Unhitch, drive the tractor into the offending drift, drop the blade and plow it out steering with the brakes... without chains. It makes no sense. With chains it will waddle thru some pretty gnarly stuff too.

All my trucks ride on 31-32" tires and get around respectably... but I live in Iowa not Siberia and I know different regions have different needs.

Tall and narrow tires w/heavy weight do amazing, w/chains, even better....

 

[nickw]

jeep

View attachment 641090

If I lived someplace snowy a lot I'd have some of those tracks on a dedicated rig...

 

[Metcalf]

Story time......the day that changed my view on snow 'wheeling forever....

We have to go back to the late 90s when lot of the 'new' technology was coming out....when 35s where 'big' tires, airing down was new, double transfer cases just happened, etc.

A lot of this was coming out of Iceland with their glacier 'wheeling.

A friend and I where in his mildly built 1985 Toyota truck running HUGE 35x12.5x15 tires with a 2.28 Marlin Crawler box and detroit lockers (gasp), and we where going out to pull his small trap line late in the season....early December I believe. We pulled up to into the parking lot for the snow machines to air down the tires. Back then we didn't have beadlocks, but we where rebels and ran 3-5psi regularly.

After airing down we started up the road in some fresh tracks from another vehicle in just over a foot of new snow. It wasn't a half mile until we came upon the typical 70s Ford dent side pickup, with all four tall skinny 235s chained up, attacking a mild hill with gusto. The poor guy was giving it all it had in repeated run. The snow conditions where just at the point where you couldn't push it anymore. You could see him getting down to the dirt trying to dig for traction. He was maybe making a few inches with every run and the V8 was singing with steam coming off the front end.

After he fought that hill for a good 20 minutes, he finally backed down to a place where we could get past. He as a very nice older gentlemen, but you could tell he was looking at us a little sideways.....Toyota...big fat tires....etc. He went on and on about how it was impossible, he had been trying for an hour. We politely told him we where going to give it a try anyways, and he said he would wait around to pull us out when we got stuck. A smile and a nod....and we where off.

I would have paid a hundred dollars to have seen the look on his face when we pulled right up through his tracks over his berm into fresh snow. To be honest, the snow conditions where not even challenging that day. We made the 20 mile trip out to Iron Lake and back, returning to the plowed road just after dark.

It wasn't 3 minutes into airing up the tires till we heard a big V8 fire up and come charging. The old timer rushed on down telling us he was just about to head into town to contact the local search and rescue to come look for us. He was super worried that we where gone so long. He had even tried to follow us in later with no luck. We talked with him for a good 30 minutes about what and how we did what we did. He had no concept of airing down the tires at all back then. We explained why a few different ways. I still don't think he ever believed us that we got all the way back to the Lake that day.

This day was basically routine for us. These where conditions for us where we felt perfectly fine going out in a single vehicle. That was the difference between tall skinny 235s with chains and aired down 35x12.5s on the same day, same snow conditions. The vehicles where probably within 500-1000lbs of each other.

That is the day that changed it all for me. I still love remembering that day with my friend Marc and his legendary 1985 Toyota.
Maybe tonight I will try and find some pictures of that old thing.
Good times......