Range Rover axles on Series IIa

[Toy-Roverlander]

Wow! Your front drive shaft is almost flat compared to mine! I will have to take a photo of mine to compare, but I worry that I need something better than u-joints.

Don't forget that I'm running a Toyota engine and gearbox, so my propshaft is also about 10inches longer than standard, and the nose is sitting quite low for some reason. I quess it's the heavier engine and gearbox combo that makes the springs compress more than normal..

When I jack it up, about halfway between where it sits now and when the tyres are coming of the ground, the prop also angles down from the gearbox a lot more.

NExt week I'm going to lower the front mounts to raise the nose a bit as it really is looking like a hot rod at the moment..


Today I finally had a good test drive. I fitted a set of standard rear shocks and after a short drive I realised I really do need the 4th leaf in the springpack. The springs were really soft. So I did that and now it feels a lot firmer. Although the rear end has come up again by a couple of centimeters.

I do hope they will sag a bit, this looks ridicilous.

But the funny thing is.... I don't feel any vibrations coming of the front prop. But maybe that's because the big angle is at the diff side, not the gearbox side. So maybe that's why I'm not feeling them. I don't know.
The front prop still has to be longer, maybe I'll just have them make the slipjoint longer. I'll have to see what's possible.

And the brakes need to be bled properly, I think there's still some air in there. They do work well though, a LOT better than what I used to have...

 

[James86004]

Here is a photo of my driveshaft:

This is a 6-cylinder, which is heavier than the 4 banger (700 lbs?). Don't know how that compares to your Toyota diesel. It also sits farther back than the 4 cylinder, so it has a longer front driveshaft.

I also have a military chassis, which gives me a 1.5" lift.

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

Here is a photo of my driveshaft:

This is a 6-cylinder, which is heavier than the 4 banger (700 lbs?). Don't know how that compares to your Toyota diesel. It also sits farther back than the 4 cylinder, so it has a longer front driveshaft.

I also have a military chassis, which gives me a 1.5" lift.

That looks very different to mine.
What's your castor angle? Your diff seems to be lying nealry horizontally which means your castor angle would be a bit more than 3 degrees.

Are those TIC springs? They might compress far less, they're a better quality and perhaps a higher spring rate than my cheapo's.

As you can see my shackles are on a backwards angle, yours seem to be sitting vertical..

Does anyone do 3 leaf parabolic front springs??

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

Hey, wait a minute...

I see a brake drum lying on the ground. Is yours drum braked?

That explains the propshaft angle.

The diff on a leaf sprung Land Rover lies horizontally, while the diff on a coil sprung Landy sticks up at an angle so the trackrod can pass under the diff behind the axle where it was 'better protected'.

You shouldn't experience any prop issues as this is all a standard setup that you've got there.

 

[Snagger]

I have TIC springs which are less cambered than those in James' photo. Then again, they're 12 years old, now, and are carrying a lot of extra weight with the winch, bull bar, spare wheel and about 80kg of engine bay and cabin sound proofing. Then there are the twin front fuel tanks...

I'll be replacing the springs fairly soon, probably next year, and will either get new TICs (depending on the price) or RM.

That looks like a standard LR Series axle on James' vehicle - the diff angle, lack of track rod and 4-bolt top swivel pin strongly suggest it, anyway. It looks like you need to adjust the stop locks, Jim!:ylsmoke:

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

I have TIC springs which are less cambered than those in James' photo. Then again, they're 12 years old, now, and are carrying a lot of extra weight with the winch, bull bar, spare wheel and about 80kg of engine bay and cabin sound proofing. Then there are the twin front fuel tanks...

I'll be replacing the springs fairly soon, probably next year, and will either get new TICs (depending on the price) or RM.

QUOTE]

Do you have a picture of your front springs? I'd like to see how cambered yours are.

 

[James86004]

Yes, mine are TIC springs, which were originally blue, but repainted black. And yes, it is the stock, drum-braked axle.

Mine sits an inch higher on the right side than on the left. In fact, the left side hits the bump stop occasionally. I have confirmed this is due to the fact that there is more weight on the left side. Probably due to the offset engine.

 

[Snagger]

Yes, mine are TIC springs, which were originally blue, but repainted black. And yes, it is the stock, drum-braked axle.

Mine sits an inch higher on the right side than on the left. In fact, the left side hits the bump stop occasionally. I have confirmed this is due to the fact that there is more weight on the left side. Probably due to the offset engine.

The lateral offset of the engine probably makes very little difference to the weight distribution of the vehicle, especially since the battery is sat further outboard on the opposite side. It most likely leans left if it's left hand drive because the left springs more often support the weight of an occupant than the right springs, or the load in the back is uneven.

I'll try to remember to post some photos soon.

 

[James86004]

The lateral offset of the engine probably makes very little difference to the weight distribution of the vehicle, especially since the battery is sat further outboard on the opposite side. It most likely leans left if it's left hand drive because the left springs more often support the weight of an occupant than the right springs, or the load in the back is uneven.

The battery is actually located under the left front seat. Same side as the engine. The springs are supposed to be the same rate and height left and right. I measured the arch on both sides before installation and they were identical.

 

[revor]

Swap them and see if the bias changes..

 

[Snagger]

The battery is actually located under the left front seat. Same side as the engine. The springs are supposed to be the same rate and height left and right. I measured the arch on both sides before installation and they were identical.

If the new camber was symmetrical, then the vehicle should sit level. Moving the battery across won't have helped, but the rear fuel tank is right-side biased to help with weight distribution, so I still think it's more likely due to ageing of the springs.

Swapping the front springs over may help, if you feel they're responsible.

 

[James86004]

I thought about swapping them over, left to right. However, according to the 4 load cells I set each corner on, there is indeed more weight on the left side, and, if you do the math, it corresponds to the difference in deflection. In other words, the springs are identical.

The springs are fairly new. A friend of mine put them on his truck, decided after a few weeks he did not like them, and sold them to me.

I think the only way I can get it to sit level is to put more arch in the left side springs. Or put those air-lift springs on and all a little more pressure to the left side.

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

Mine has exactly the same thing. It leans to the left. Springs are identical, same partnumbers and same free arch.

I reckon it must be the heavier Toy engine and gearbox which is pushed against the lefthand frame rail that causes it. And I guess the 3 batteries underneath that seat, next to the framerail doesn't help either.

I must trim the bumpstops on the axle a bit as they are on an angle towards the rubber bumpstops, effectively reducing the distance between them, and they're a bit taller than on a standard axle. So at least I'll be getting back some bump travel.

 

[Snagger]

Well, sorry about the lean, but I'm out of ideas. I wouldn't expect symmetrical springs to lean much unless there is a big mass imbalance.

Just out of curousity, James, why did your friend buy TIC springs rather than RM? They're expensive enough in Europe, but they must have been way more difficult and expensive to get in the States.

Here are the photos of my 12 year old TIC Stage 2s:

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

On the second photo you can see how close the axle is to the bumpstop. Does it hit the bumpstop when going over speedbumps or anything?

I didn't expect it either but it does happen apparantly. When standing behind the Landy it doesn't look like it's leaning but when comparing the distance between tyre and wing you'll see the difference. I believe it was quite a bit too, 4cm or something... can't remember, even though we measured it yesterday....