Real World Gas Mileage in a Quigley E350 V10??????

[Belltownbikes]

I have heard it said that if you figure in the increased maintenance costs associated with a diesel engine, the cost per mile is roughly the same gas/diesel. This comparison was between engines in the E350 - so comparing with the Sprinter might not be the same thing. But another thing to consider.

But I'm new to the big vans - I only have 8 tankfuls in our quigley ford V10 - I have been seeing around 10mpg. Mixed driving, light load.

But like a poster up there said, we have 3 kids and carry a lot of bikes, boats and miscellaneous toys when we roll. We needed the room...done with carrying 8 bikes outside on the back of the Vanagon. For us, the van is not our daily driver so I can handle/justify the low mpg.

B

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

I get and honest 11 Mpg overall and up to 13 on the highway. '97, V10, E350, EB, 4X4, SMB, PH, 4.10 gears, 315/70 R17, 8800 lbs.

Were going to King of the Hammers today so will get in some Freeway miles, surface streets and off-roading - I'll do another check for this trip.

 

[freeagent]

I've got a 2005 RB E350 4x4 V10. 3.73's, 6" lift, 33" tires, 5R100 5-speed tranny. Simple interior but with custom steel bumpers front and back. I pretty much get 10-11 in-town and on highway at 65 mph. It will definitely dip down into the 8/9's if I drive 75-85 mph (expanses of open desert road). I don't tow that often and if I do it is usually just in town so I don't have any good open road towing numbers for you.

This is the only V10 I've ever owned, but I will have to say that other than the mpg's it has been a great motor for me. Plenty of power, will tow heavy loads pretty effortlessly, good acceleration if needed. Parts are readily available/relatively cheap and so far, my maintenance costs have been nothing more than regular oil changes. The engine bay is a little tight due to the bigger block, but that's the same if you get the diesel anyway. Most other people I've talked to with a 4x4 E250/350 with the 5.4L have said to me that if they could do it over again, they would go with either the V10 or the diesel. If the gas mileage is going to be terrible either way, then they would at least like to have the power when they need it.

 

[mhiscox]

I have heard it said that if you figure in the increased maintenance costs associated with a diesel engine, the cost per mile is roughly the same gas/diesel.

This is an excellent point as diesel truck maintenance, and especially Sprinter maintenance, is relatively expensive. I read in some industry publication (which I sadly can no longer cite) that fleets were moving away from diesels to gas engine trucks because the all-in costs for diesels (more expensive fuel, urea, maintenance, etc.) was greater than the costs involved in the equivalent gas truck, in part because gas engine trucks last longer than they used to so that it's harder to rationalize the higher diesel costs in exchange for a longer life span.

You also have to take into account the premium you pay for the diesel, new or used. In new pickups, figure $8,000 or more. A new, not very fancy cargo Sprinter can be $15K+ more than an E-Series. So while I love that my T1N Sprinters have gotten 20 or more mpgs and that the little 5-bangers can go several hundred thousand miles without overhauls, I wouldn't hesitate to buy what I need and realize that the extra fuel I'm buying is largely, and perhaps entirely, offset by the lower costs involved with the gas-engined truck.

 

[Jb1rd]

Lots of good insight and food for thought. I guess it boils down to how the Sprinter will handle Colorado winters, (I'm not worried about my skill or judgement I learned to drive and spent most of my adult life there) Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised. I also have to consider the smoking good deal I got on the Sprinter which nullifies the extra initial purchase cost.

 

[FordGuy1]

From a Ford dealer perspective. Diesel's are awesome(own one myself), but when you figure in long term cost of maintenance and repair the V-10 will save you a lot of money, regardless of fuel cost. The other positive for the V-10 is that on the road repair is easier than a Diesel for most repair shops or owners. Most parts are shared with the 5.4L which allows you to find many repair parts at small auto part stores. Most of our customers get well over 200k with the V-10.

 

[njtacoma]

A fleet manager friend of mine brought up the replacement cost of the engine. It is rare, but if something goes catastrophically wrong with either a gas or diesel van, the cost to replace the engine in the diesel is much higher compared to the gas engine replacement cost. This would seem to widen the gap in favor of a gas alternative.

Larry on the domestic forum has talked about the shift in medium duty trucks toward gas power because of the increasing costs of running diesel trucks in that market (initial cost, urea, failure of emissions equipment).

Several years ago when the diesel trucks were new in the market FourWheeler did a cost analysis and figured out you had to tow for many many miles, something like 175K to break even on purchasing a diesel truck.

 

[FordGuy1]

V-10 Engine replacement $5900.00 Diesel $12,000.00. The Diesel never pays for it self, but diesel power is awesome. If you service the diesel correctly, which includes fuel filters, and fuel additives along with everything else maintenance is over double on the diesel.

 

[coolfeet]

No problemo, lets take your sprinter for example.

Lets say you drive 5000 miles per year.

And you said you get around 21-24mpgs, right?

I have NO idea what diesel costs right now, but lets call it $4.00 on average in your area.

So 5000 (total estimated miles) divided by 21 mpgs (estimated worst economy) = total number of gallons you'll need to drive that mileage (238 gallons)

So take 238 and multiply it by the average fuel cost ($4.00) and you should get a rough estimate of what your annual fuel cost will be: $938.00

We can do that with the E350, too.

5000 miles divided by 8.5mpgs = 588 gallons
588 gallons times $3.75(estimated gas cost) =
$2205 annual fuel cost

As you can see, your fuel cost more than doubled with the 4x4 van, but here's the thing. E350 v10's are very reliable, very common, and that van packs a TON of utility into a very small, nimble package. If you CAN budget for that fuel cost each year, and are not suprised by it, and the van fits your needs/wants, I think you'll find a very low amount of regret when paying for fuel no matter which one you choose.

That's one thing I had to come to terms with when having a family size larger than 4. For us to be comfortable, it simply puts us into a bigger vehicle category. I LOVE 1st gen 4runners and generally smaller rigs with their accompanying economy, but we simply don't fit.

Well said! I drive a 1998 E150 van, 4.2 v6. I paid only $1000 for it. It gets terrible gas mileage-15 mpg over-all. 14 around town and maybe 17 on the freeway. After driving over 13,000 miles, replacing all the brakes, new Michelin tires, cargo mat, window tinting, new KYB shocks, and installing new bench seats, I have about $3500 into the rig. It's has 98k on the clock. At this point, I am not concerned about fuel economy. While the v6 is gutless, it gets us everywhere safely without breaking down. Insurance is about $200 a year on her. Registration is $100. Everything is so cheap on these Ford E150s because there are many of them on the road. My only complaint is that it's not the inline 6 or a big v8 or v10!

I bought the van because we simply ran out of room in our Subaru. We were leaving on a 3 week camping trip. Some guy calls a few days before we are leaving offers us the van for $1350. My wife said that if will take $1000, we will buy it. We bought it in the afternoon, built a quick platform bed to sleep 3 peeps in the back and left the following morning.

 

[draaronr]

If you'll ever tow diesel is the only way to go. Much better towing power curves.

 

[deserteagle56]

2007 Quigley E350 V-10 on 33s with 4.56 gears. Always loaded to the max, and with a quad or dirt bike in the back. 12 mpg no matter whether I'm flying down the freeway at 75 or poking along a dirt road at 35. The rig came with 3.73 gears originally but the mileage was still only 12 mpg. The perfect rig for camping in the outback!

 

[Jb1rd]

With all this being said is an offer of $5k reasonable for this particular van? I know it is kind of hard to make assumptions not seeing it in person but the description and pics seem pretty decent. Keep in mind I am trading one project for another so I want to be some what realistic in over expectation. (the Sprinter is mechanically sound and runs like a top, but has internal rust issues that are going to chew up a minimum of $2000 and possibly as much as $5000 depending how far I let them go with it or just stay ultra cheap and do the minimum, ie not so professional route) So lets choose the route for simplicity sake of keeping it cheap, that means I have a known 2k going into rust repair before I even start the interior build out for stealth camper, but I save 7-10k by already having a vehicle I can stand up in. Sooooo many factors to consider. But then I gain 4wd :Wow1:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171236676647?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

 

[njtacoma]

This sort of relates to the diesel vs. gas question, a quote from another thread about 6.0 Fords, but interesting perspective.

Also speaks to the reality of running gas engines exclusively in a working/towing environment.

I guess I could chime in. (KEEP IN MIND ALL WERE FLEET MAINTAINED) As an owner of an engineering firm, and MANY trucks that we run, I will say this.... Due to many years of hauling huge loads in our fords, from the 7.3L diesels to the 6.0L diesels, and the GMC's that we ran, the 6.6L diesels, and the dodges 5.9 diesels. We (as a company) have owned and maintained HUGE amounts of trucks (Over 50) and I will say this.... Every truck in our Fleet to this day, 1 tonner's (over 50 in our FLEET right now) are running the V-10 ford gassers.

***Due to the Engine problems of the 7.3L (YES the 7.3L that famously need there fuel injectors done at around 120k at a $2300 bill, and the turbos redone at around 175K at a tune of $1300) Good trucks I will say, but we never got one to make it over 300k

*** The 6.0l were trash from 03 to late 05. HPOP's /EGR's/head gaskets/ (did I mention head gaskets) **** those trucks, We had more down time than ANY time in our history waiting for these trucks to get fixed. As soon as one got out of the dealer, another 2 or 3 would go in. biggest mistake I have EVER made as a company. I think I had 1 truck that had ZERO issues, and that one was babied.

**The GMC's were good trucks, the Durmax was a good engine, (the transmission was unbeatable) BUT seriously lost power after 100k, and always needed injector work, or new injectors at random times.. ALWAYS a check engine light would be on... and the Brakes SUCK!!!!! ALways needed front end work on the steering/suspension/tie rods/ball joints.

*** The dodges (03-05) All 5.9's were Stellar trucks. The Engines were great, the RFE transmissions were Tough!!!! Had very little issues with these trucks!!!! ***EXCEPT the ************* trucks had 0 payload***** they couldnt carry **** in the bed and not be on the ground....., and we always had issues with the front wheel bearing assemblies. If I had my way, I would stick with Dodge, but they never improved the payload of these trucks. FORD ALWAYS WON THE PAYLOAD BATTLE...

After many years of diesel issues of all the trucks mentioned above, and the down time of all the above trucks (or the guys just not driving the dodges because the couldnt load much in the back before the bumper was on the ground) we decided to go with the ford (for the massive payload) and decided to go with the V-10 gasser. THIS WAS THE BEST DECISION WE HAVE EEEVVVEEERRR MADE AS A COMPANY...

HERE is WHY!!!!!!

The V-10 is a monster... (not to mention its $5-6k cheaper than a diesel) Yes it gets a little less fuel economy than a diesel (but not much difference) the oil changes are $29.00 (as compared to a diesel oil change at over $100) NO DOWNTIME!!!!!! The damn V-10 start everytime, and go ALL DAY LONG, all over the state of Florida. the fuel is cheap ($3.39 a gallon as compared to $4.00) The difference of the fuel economy makes up the difference. We hook up 15k trailers ALL THE TIME to these trucks, and the go like hell,, booking stupid amounts of pulling time. Spark plugs changed out at around 120k at a tune of about $300 (way cheaper than a HPOP, or injectors, or a P-PUMP) I have over 20 V-10's in our fleet RIGHT NOW, that have over 300K on them and STUPID amounts of idle time on the engines, and they run just as good as the day I got them. and here is the biggest reason we own a V-10 gasser. We JUST had 1 truck blow a V-10 engine (@ 388K, and this bastard was driven like a slut on a street corner) and it cost me $3800 for a fresh engine INSTALLED, and I had the truck back in less than 5 days. I am willing to bet most of these trucks will top the 450k mark with ease( BUT I know better, as We are getting ready to trade our ENTIRE fleet in for a new fleet of V-10 trucks, AND the knowledge that this new fleet, could be as reliable, if not better than the prior fleet.

***Trust me,,,, I love Diesels,,,, I love everything about them.... If it weren't for the EPA ************* everything up with their "rules" I bet those Diesels would be Stupid Reliable, and SUPER efficient. But right now, I have to run a company, that has NO down time, and NO employees standing around waiting for a truck to be fixed. Thank you FORD for producing a KILLER V-10 gasser engine, and a killer payload...

But to answer your question: I would say that the 06-07 6.0L diesel would be your best best, if you wanted to gamble on a diesel. BUT my honest opinion, would be to go with a 03-05 cummins (if you dont carry too much weight in the bed LOL) OR go get a V-10 gasser, and have a good, CHEAP to maintain, go like hell, engine/truck that you dont have to worry about.


Sorry..

 

[mdmead]

^^^ This was a very interesting read. I've got a '99 V-10 F-250 4x4 with just over 161K on it. Overall, I've been really happy with this truck/drivetrain (I've got a 5-speed manual with 4.30 gears in mine). As for reliability, it has been good. I've replaced all the coil packs after having a couple go bad, and had a bad electrical connector on the fuel injection system causing the engine to miss. I've replaced the alternator and installed a new belt, tensioner and idler pulley. Other than infrequent oil changes, the hood has rarely been lifted. To date the truck hasn't left me stranded.
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I'm not without concerns though. All the 2-valve modular engines have suffered from 'blown sparkplug' issues. I've never been able to figure out a pattern to see what the cause is, but I always figured it was a combination of poor design by Ford (lack of threads in the head) and owners/shops not following proper changing procedures. In fact, I left my factory plugs in as long as I could, thinking I would be less likely to blow one. They were eventually changed while tracking down a misfire though. The repair for this blown plug problem has been refined and isn't so expensive anymore... Ford wanted to replace a complete head early on(!)... but if this occurs, you are stranded and need to be towed. (I did find a kit online that supposedly allows one to make a temporary repair to limp home. Haven't bought one, but should - my experience is if I carry parts to fix, I never need them!) While I haven't had this problem (yet), a friend with an identical truck did, and I talked to another friend who said they have dealt with this problem on their fleet vans running V-10s. My understanding is this problem was solved on the 3-valve head modular engines, but now I've read they have their own sparkplug issues. (The plugs break apart during changing, allowing debris to drop in the cylinder. At least this only occurs when the truck is already in the shop!)
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V-10 performance? My '99 is the lowest horsepower V-10 produced, with HP and torque figures going up over the years. I've got no real complaints with power. My typical heavy load is an old 8' Bell cabover camper and loaded two-place snowmobile trailer - well within legal limits of this truck. I can't sail up the passes at 65 mph in 5th, but can easily run up at 60-65 in 4th most of the time. (Fifth is useable most instances on flat and mild hills unless I hit a headwind. Fighting wind is when I really wish for a diesel!) One thing I've never quite adapted to is how these engines can rev. With a manual transmission, I don't have to, and don't, rev mine really high. This probably works against me as I'm probably not using the engine's full potential. I actually cringe when I drive my dad's truck (just like mine but with an automatic and 3.73 gears) and the transmission will drop two gears on steep climbs and I see the tach needle swing so high.
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I've always wanted to be a 'diesel guy'. I'm jealous of the guys who go sailing past me on the steeper climbs towing heavier loads. But my practical... and cheap... side have always prevailed. I've never been able to get past the cost of admission - about $8K more on the trucks I've priced. In our area, diesel is always more expensive, and then figure in higher maintenance costs, and I just have never been able to justify a 'want' like this. Maybe if I maxed my truck's payload all the time, I would feel different, but since I tend to run empty or with light loads, I just can't do it.
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Bringing this back on topic... sort of... my truck seems to run between 8.5 and 11.5 mpg. The 8.5 is with the camper and snowmobile trailer, running down the freeway at 65 mph. The 11.5 is running down the freeway solo at 75. I've actually seen a high of 14 mpg running at 45-50 mph on long two-lane highway trips, but I don't do this often.

 

[deserteagle56]

^^^
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I'm not without concerns though. All the 2-valve modular engines have suffered from 'blown sparkplug' issues. I've never been able to figure out a pattern to see what the cause is, but I always figured it was a combination of poor design by Ford (lack of threads in the head) and owners/shops not following proper changing procedures. In fact, I left my factory plugs in as long as I could, thinking I would be less likely to blow one. They were eventually changed while tracking down a misfire though. The repair for this blown plug problem has been refined and isn't so expensive anymore... Ford wanted to replace a complete head early on(!)... but if this occurs, you are stranded and need to be towed. (I did find a kit online that supposedly allows one to make a temporary repair to limp home. Haven't bought one, but should - my experience is if I carry parts to fix, I never need them!) While I haven't had this problem (yet), a friend with an identical truck did, and I talked to another friend who said they have dealt with this problem on their fleet vans running V-10s. My understanding is this problem was solved on the 3-valve head modular engines, but now I've read they have their own sparkplug issues. (The plugs break apart during changing, allowing debris to drop in the cylinder. At least this only occurs when the truck is already in the shop!)
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Not sure what year Ford fixed the spark plug problems but my 2007 did not come with the spark plugs that break apart upon removal. Here's what the bad plugs look like. That extended nose is what breaks off. If your plugs don't look like these then you have no worries. (This plug was out of a friend's truck with the 5.4)


Champion makes a replacement plug (and maybe other companies do also, now) with a good solid nose, part number 7989, that will not break apart upon removal.