Removing the swaybars for performance

[Scott Brady]

They key to removing the swaybar is valving in the coil-overs and rear shocks. Coil and leaf build plays a factor too (the weight the coil and leaves are made to bear), but the valving is the sweet spot.

I have always preferred IFS trucks without swaybars.

But, it is important to know what a swaybar does for our trucks. It is more than just roll control (keeping the chassis level under cornering force), but about understeer.

Manufacturers always bias a vehicles handling towards understeer, as opposed to oversteer (the rear end swinging out). This is accomplished in two ways for an IFS pick-up.

1. Positive Camber: Positive camber (the tires like this \ / ) allows for a smooth transition from neutral to understeer as cornering load increases.

2. Stiff anti-swaybars: A stiff front suspension that has decreased cornering loading (because of the swaybar) will keep the car level and reduce front end grip, allowing the vehicle to handle more neutral, or understeer.

So, why remove the swaybar:

1. Improved Articulation in Technical Terrain: You all know that one
2. A more neutral handling truck: This is another reason why I removed the swaybar. Ever since my road course days I have prefered the a neutral handling suspension, which is to say minimal understeer, and ease of inducing oversteer with throttle application. A Tacoma with good coil-overs (like the Donahoes) and a firm valved rear shock will handle great at speed off-highway with the swaybar removed. My truck has a small lift and low COG so I can really push the truck on dirt roads, using the 4wd to pull the front end around. The lack of swaybar allows the outside front tire to load and pull through the corner.

On the highway (which is highly tactile), all the above goes out the window. No reason to run without the swaybar. My truck is only used for trips and on the trail, so no loss for me...

 

[asteffes]

Nice explanation, Scott. I would add that for drivers with little or no formal on-track drivers' training, a vehicle that tends toward oversteer is not good on the street. A vehicle that wants to bring the rear end around is not safe during evasive maneuvers (say, avoiding debris on the highway) and most drivers over-estimate their ability to correct an oversteer condition. They will often over-correct and make the situation worse. So, for folks here whose vehicles spend the majority of their time on the highway and see the ocassional off-road adventure, leaving the swaybars intact and connected is advisable. A quick-disconnect for trails would probably be ideal for non-dedicated expedition vehicles.

 

[Scott Brady]

Good point Adam...

In addition, my truck is near load balanced, which is my front and rear weight bias is close to 50/50, all the way up to 40/60. This makes my truck handle like a mid engine car.

The downside to this is tenacious grip up to the point of oversteer, then hold on... :Wow1: Fortunately, the truck responds well to throttle lift and mild correction.

 

[+ d]

Are there sway bar quick-disconnect options for the tacoma?

As i am sure you know there are several options for SFA jeeps. For the last year i had been running the JKS QuickerDisconnects but they started to clunk. After laying in the dirt for 20 minutes removing the stock endlinks i am looking for another option, i like the concept, but not the price of the Nth Degree disco's.

I may just have to fabricate my own...

 

[erin]

I to was wondering on the availability of quick discos, ar e there any you guys would recommend?

 

[Scott Brady]

All of the designs I have found for the Tacomas are difficult to use. The bar is just in a weird spot IMO for it to be a "quick" disconnect.

But that was a few years ago, so maybe something new has come about.

The ideal would be a coupled swaybar with a servo disconnect. Push a button and rock and roll.

 

[The BN Guy]

I haven't had a swaybar on my Frontier in two and one-half years! Yes it leans a bit in some extreme curves but I don't drive like Robby Gordon so it really makes no difference. I do get a little more tire wear on the outside of the front set due to extra force exerted on them but having the extra little flex offroad makes up for it.

I know several people that have removed them from their Nissans. About half put it back on but the other half really enjoy the extra flex as well and notice little body lean.

Calmini has released a kit to SAS a Frontier or Xterra. This puts our vehicles higher and therefore more top heavy. Two individuals I know of have chosen to purchase the swaybar kit and state that they can see a difference due to the extra height while out on the highway. Offroad they simply disconnect it and have tons of flex.

Calmini does make a quick disconnect for the Xterra but after seeing it in person I was concerned about it flopping around during extreme flexing and getting caught up in the front suspension and tearing up either the UCA's, brake lines or something else critical.

Plus it scares the bejesus out of passengers when we start to lean.

 

[SixLug]

I, as well, havent run a swaybar on my 4runner for a long time. it has the torsion bar front end, and with them being pretty cranked, there still isnt very much roll on the road. And this coming from a guy who lives in the Smoky Mountains....EVERY road around Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg, and Sevierville is extremely curvy, but I really have no problems, and, too, enjoy the extra flex. But I dont drive like a bat out of hell either. I think if your careful, and understand the vehicles tendencies after its removed, and take a while to get used to it, then I say go for it. But it WILL handle differently, and thats the thing that matters. I think where most people get into trouble is when the decide that the vehicle should handle the same, and treat it that way....thats when things get bad....My 2 cents. :elkgrin:

 

[Desertdude]

a couple swaybar disconect links for Tacoma's

how to make


where to buy

:::

 

[p1michaud]

Another supplier for the toyotas...

Just anohter option for sway bar disconects

I've recently purchased a set of these and will be installing them shortly. I'll report on their performance after some use. They are well made and waskillywabbit answered all my questions patiently. Great service.
Cheers,
P

 

[+ d]

what would you guys estimate the design capacity would need to be for sway bar disconnects?

as i have started to get into thinking about fabricating some for myself (my JKS quicker disco's didn't cut it) i'm realizing that they present a bit of a tricky design problem. they need to resist push-pull forces, articulate at the connection points and deal with unlevel conditions during attach/detachment...performing all the while with style and grace



so as i start to spec hardware i am wondering what the load conditions really are...i suppose worst case would be the GVW? but the components would be significantly cheaper if i could rationalize for a lesser load...

 

[MaddBaggins]

I broke the mounts on my front sway bar on my last trip out with goodtimes. I decided to remove both bars and see how I like it. Way to much lean in the corners, so I put the rear one back in. I'm happy with the way it handles now. I drive a little slower is all. If I really feel like it I will reweld the mounts for the front bar and reinstall. Maybe.:ylsmoke:

 

[+ d]

what would you guys estimate the design capacity would need to be for sway bar disconnects?

:ar15: :wavey:
i hate to be 'that guy' but i am gonna bump this one back to the top just 'cause i'd like some opinions!

 

[Scott Brady]

what would you guys estimate the design capacity would need to be for sway bar disconnects?

as i have started to get into thinking about fabricating some for myself (my JKS quicker disco's didn't cut it) i'm realizing that they present a bit of a tricky design problem. they need to resist push-pull forces, articulate at the connection points and deal with unlevel conditions during attach/detachment...performing all the while with style and grace



so as i start to spec hardware i am wondering what the load conditions really are...i suppose worst case would be the GVW? but the components would be significantly cheaper if i could rationalize for a lesser load...

There has been a lot of work done on the Jeep swaybar disconnects. Between material costs and fabrication time, I believe it would be very difficult to engineer and make your own for a reasonable cost.

Some of the newer ones (like from Teraflex) are even easier to use.

 

[UncleChris]

Day 7 of the UncleChris Swaybar Crisis

Took the truck into work with yes(ee gads!) the swaybar sitting in the garage. 50 miles each way on bad NorCalifornia superslab.

I was really surprised at how non-dramatic it was. With the Hoes and the AAL, the ride is pretty much stock, if anything maybe a little bit better road feel.

Nothing like the Cherokee when I had it disconnected. Maybe that is one of the differences in handling between the IFS and a solid front axle.

Heading out to Hollister tomorrow, I'll try to get pics on the stairstep, to compare with picture I have doing it stock.