Roof Rack installs or Retrofit?

[Wolvee]

Has anyone here installed roof rack tracks onto their vehicles that didn't previously have any sort or permanently installed track system? I am about to retrofit an 04/05 Ford Expedition Roof Rack onto my 4 Door Supercrew F150 using Rivet Nuts and a Rivnut installer tool.

If you have, I'd love to see any kind of pictures you have of the finished product or install process.

Here is the tool and M6 Rivnut with the factory Expedition fasteners. I'll have to cut the track down a bit to fit but hopefully everything will seal up tight.

If you didn't use Rivnuts, how did you go about mounting the tracks to your roof?

 

[fog cutter]

not sure if it's the feedback you're looking for, but i'd take out the headliner to clean the shavings, prime & paint the raw metal edges before installing the Riv-nuts. of course by that time you might want to add some 1/16" strips of aluminum (to spread the load) and use 3M #5200 adhesive to minimize the possibility of squeaks.

 

[Antichrist]

I wouldn't install a roof rack with rivnusts unless you're using a heck of a lot of them. I'd remove the headliner and have the fasteners go through the structural supports. Or at a minimum what fog cutter suggested.

 

[summerprophet]

Thule and yakima both have a track system. Bolts through the roof, with nuts underneath.
The advantage of rivnuts, would be that you can easily remove the rack, although leaving the interior susceptible to water damage.

I haven't used them, so I can't offer much more advice.

 

[Wolvee]

Thanks for the suggestions there are a few things I should mention. Ford uses Rivet nuts to install the Roof racks from the factory with no additional supports. I can debur and paint the bare edge from the outside of the vehicle.

There are 5 rivet nuts per side distributed across the length of the roof.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

You can use heavy grease on the drill bit to catch and hold the steel shavings when you drill, but if any falls through it may stain the headliner later. Those look like steel rivnuts and I'm pretty sure they are available with a sealed end so that water can't get past the center of the rivnut. That also prevents leakage when the rack is off the truck. Big (1/4") steel rivnuts are a real pain to compress without adequate leverage on the tool, so you might consider aluminum rivnuts or put handle extensions on the tool if you use steel. Paint the edges of the holes and let the paint dry. Put a dab of RTV silicone sealant around the lip of the hole before you seat the rivnut. If you don't use the rivnuts with the sealed ends, put thread sealant on the rack screws before you snug it down. If you do use the sealed rivnuts, a dab of antiseize is a good idea, and virtually mandatory with any stainless steel hardware. I use only stainless screws and nuts on my racks, makes things simpler down the road.

I have Yakima track systems on two trucks, mounted to the fiberglass shells. These mount with big nylon load distributing washers inside the shell that capture the nuts. One has been on for more than 15 years and never a leak, sealed with RTV when I installed it. Other has been on for about nine years, and no leaks.

 

[rayra]

I'd only use those rivnuts for a 'blind' install location where I can't get to the other side, like a boxed frame rail or some other square metal tubing structure. I'd also not use them in thin sheetmetal like a vehicle roof and expect them to hold under a heavy load or stress.
To install a rack on a roof I'd pull the headliner and do it right, bolts and locking nuts. some fender washers or flat stock on the inner side as further reinforcement.

 

[Wolvee]

Well, I guess I'm a bit more confused than I started. Why would automakers like Toyota and Ford use Rivet nuts if they couldn't hold a load? Yakima and smittybilt both have videos on youtube that shows their system being installed with rivnuts. :0/

I've got to go to Fastenal today so I'll pick their brains about it too.

 

[fog cutter]

the same reason they use cheap tires & batteries: price point sales. think about the group you're asking for advice. if you joined the "my pretty pony" forum and asked the same question, all the replies would be completely different, i betcha. for a surfboard or stepladder, the installed factory roof racks are probably fine. the strength is from your bungee cord or clothesline tie-down. will you have catastrophic failure? maybe not. will you have a wet spot and rust streaks running down your headliner? probably. maybe on a 10 year old truck it's not a big deal.

 

[Antichrist]

the same reason they use cheap tires & batteries: price point sales. think about the group you're asking for advice.

Hat was my point really. I grossly overload my roof rack at times. Way over the manufacture's recommended maximum load. I assume others do also.
From the dealer, they are probably absolved from any liability if you keep under their load recommendations which factors in how they attach the roof rails.

 

[rayra]

Well, I guess I'm a bit more confused than I started. Why would automakers like Toyota and Ford use Rivet nuts if they couldn't hold a load? Yakima and smittybilt both have videos on youtube that shows their system being installed with rivnuts. :0/

I've got to go to Fastenal today so I'll pick their brains about it too.

Cost. It's all a compromise / compromised by cost. it may be 'good enough', but that's the end product of the Best (divided by) Cost equation. Just because a commercial manufacturer does something a certain way it by no means means it's the better way. But (shrug) their liability lawyers figure they can get away with it, so go for it if that's good enough for you.


eta fog cutter said it faster and funnier. "from your bungee cord or clothesline tie-down" Heh.

 

[unplannedbbq]

I'll jump on the "bolt through" suggestion. I used rivets to mount DOKA mirrors on my westy vs. the sheet metal screws VW used. That was an upgrade.
I bolted through when I put a rack on my old Subaru wagon, and used some thin aluminum flat stock to spread the load.
I'm a fan of overbuilding racks; factory racks list low load load limits for reduced liability AND 'cause they seem pretty flex-y.
I wouldn't put a heavy load on my factory Odyssey rack w/ Thule bars, and the Honda system seems stouter than most. I can see a bit of roof sheetmetal flex with my weight hanging on one crossbar mounted to the factory rack...

 

[fog cutter]

from residential construction business experience, sometimes i would have to remind customers that building codes are minimum requirements.

 

[Mad_Texan]

Wolvee,

Realistically, what are you looking to put on the roof rack once it is installed? You truck is virtually the same as mine height wise and you will end up with a rack that is very close to 7' off the ground. I have thought of doing the exact same thing as you and considered what loads it would carry possibly, i.e. solar panels and extra support for the rack on my cap for longer items. At one point I considered placing my 60" hi-lift on my roof rack... then I considered having to get it down in either slippery or rocky conditions from that height. It is mounted in the bed where it is both protected from weather and out of site from onlookers. The roofs of our trucks have six channels stamped into them instead of being flat sheet metal that helps stiffen them up but I would never put as much weight on the roof as I put on my cap. A better consideration may be a ladder or cargo rack of some kind...

 

[Wolvee]

The rails will be for the front of Kayaks when the basket isn't mounted. Because of the short 5.5' bed it's hard to make room when we go out on trips and loaded up.

There will be 40" LEDs mounted to the basket in front along with an awning of some sort on the side. When there is something in the basket I can't imagine it being very heavy. Nothing like a tire would be up there. Maybe some pioneer gear on the opposite side of the awning. I've wanted something to be slightly more interchangeable and removable since we do a lot of different activities.

What I like about the factory rails is they can be removed in under a minute, leaving just the tracks along the sides for Daily driving.

I have everything done except the drilling & mounting of the rack to the roof.