RR v. LR differences?

[Ray_G]

For example, today I was able to haul the following inside my LR3: Pics of all this or it didn't happen!

1 Bushranger X-Jack (Air bag type lifter)

Brief hi-jack; for the x-jack what are you using-air or are you blocking an exhaust side with a test plug or something?
r-
Ray

 

[99Discovery]

I'm a die-hard solid axle guy, but due to my wife's back we started looking into LR4s and RR L322s. I went to the $tealership because they actually have an off-road course (I didn't care about freeway driving so much).

This much is certain, the L322 has superior "technology" right out of the gate. On the highway it hunkers down and reminds me of my old BMW 540i with sport package, it seems to defy the laws of physics. Amazing something so heavy can handle so well.

Then you get it into off-road mode and if-equipped the camera system is awesome (exterior cameras that show all of your approach angles, etc. No more seeing obstacles blind. The articulation blows the LR4, Range Rover Sport, and likely the LR3 out of the water. The suspension is just "better." No contest, at least compared to the same obstacles on the course. Comfort was better also. I was blown away. You can still get the $200 sensor-lift and use compautomotive 18" wheels on NON-supercharged models through 2011 (and there is some thought the 18's will mount on Non-SC 2011+, but no-one has verified yet, still too new for owners to venture off-road).

Now, the LR4 was 90% of the RR, but with better cargo/passenger hauling. It exhibited much more body roll on the highway and off-road it would frequently lift a tire in the air on off-camper portions of the $tealership course while the RR was always firmly planted. I would have no problem getting an LR4 (or LR3 in your case), because I believe the aftermarket support is an advantage over the loss of articulation. L322s have little-to-no aftermarket support, and it even seems like this site's owners have abandoned their ExPo/Overland Journal L322 Rig.

The Range Rover Sports was essentially an LR4 with the on-road performance of the RR at the expense of some ground clearance. Was it Chris B. who built up a RRS for Expedition Portal? The thread is here, and it details what to expect to get the most out of it. I wanted the RRS, but out of the 3 vehicles it was by far the worst on my wife's back thanks to the hard sport seats and the sport suspension. It hunkered down on the highway pretty well, but off-road it suffered the same lack of articulation the LR4 did (I think they use the same suspension design). You can fit 18" Compautomotives on NON-SC RRS too.

For me, I'd deal with the lack of aftermarket support and go all out on the Range Rover. I was blown away by its capabilities. I have no doubt that with a 2" lift and some decent tires the stock Range Rover could tackle some pretty high-end trails down in Moab. Granted, you may need to take some bypasses because the wheelbase and IFS/IRS combo isn't exactly ideal for rock crawling, but when you consider how well it does on-road coupled with how well it handles off-road, it is a pretty formidable rig that desperately needs to ditch its 20" rims get out of Mall Parking lots!

 

[mpinco]

Land Rover seriously needs to rethink rim offerings. While 19/20" rims may sell to the boulevard cruisers and rappers, they are inappropriate for off-road where boulders/rocks are present. I can guarantee that you will damage a rim. My LR4 came with 20". They had rash even from urban driving. They were the first to go, moving to 18" LR3's.

If a model cannot be converted to 18" or smaller rims, it shouldn't be on the short list.

 

[LandCruiserX]

Ok, what are you talking about? A VW Touareg instead of something practical? The Touareg has about as much interior space as a very small wagon. In fact, not quite as much as a Jetta Sportwagen.... I had an 08 Toaureg. Very neat vehicle, but more space in my 08 BMW 535 wagon and at least 2-3 x the volume in the lr3. Also, the VW is not a "drive into the sunset never worrying again about repairs" sort of vehicle.

This post makes it sound like you just want or need a cool vehicle. There are lots of those out there. Just pick something and have fun.

Primary reason for the Touareg comment was I have always had excellent luck with VW diesels. Basically all other things aside, if there was heavy aftermarket support for them it could make one fine do it all vehicle, in my world. As far as true practiciality for someone living out of it for weeks at a time, probably not )

 

[LandCruiserX]

99Discovery, great reply, I will continue to look into the RRs and if I find a steal of a deal that might be the direction I go. Soubds like with some wheels and 33 inch ATs it might serve just about any purpose, especially the occasional long trip.

 

[Jwestpro]

99Discovery, great reply, I will continue to look into the RRs and if I find a steal of a deal that might be the direction I go. Soubds like with some wheels and 33 inch ATs it might serve just about any purpose, especially the occasional long trip.

Don't get your heart set on 33's. That's beyond the generally tested maximum even with some physical modifications. 31.5 yes, 32 maybe. Not 33. Oh, and then the spare won't fit in it's cargo floor location either. I doubt anything bigger than a 31.5 (265/65x18) will fit, deflated somewhat, in the cargo floor spot. That 31.5 may not even fit at all if using a proper tougher non-street tire.

 

[LandCruiserX]

Don't get your heart set on 33's. That's beyond the generally tested maximum even with some physical modifications. 31.5 yes, 32 maybe. Not 33. Oh, and then the spare won't fit in it's cargo floor location either. I doubt anything bigger than a 31.5 (265/65x18) will fit, deflated somewhat, in the cargo floor spot. That 31.5 may not even fit at all if using a proper tougher non-street tire.

Yikes... going from 35 inch BFG MTs to 31.5s

Thats rough, will 33s fit on an LR3 with an OME heavy lift?

 

[Jwestpro]

Yikes... going from 35 inch BFG MTs to 31.5s

Thats rough, will 33s fit on an LR3 with an OME heavy lift?

OME HD lift? You do know that the LR3/4 is independent front and rear plus air springs right? There is a steel spring kit to swap into but it's top end lift height is not as high as the available lift height using the air springs and it's factory system. There is almost no good reason to buy an lr3/4 if the intention is solely to swap to steel springs unless a person simply loves the vehicle shape or is already in one they can't afford to sell and start over.

Now, what you also need to understand is that just talking about tire size with an IFS/IRS and this air spring system is not like what you've come to know in the jeep ad a reference point. 35" is a larger tire sure, but what's the ground to differential clearance? Not much in my opinion. I'll bet you I can get more clearance under the diffs with my lr3 than you had on the jeep. I have a 32" tire (275/65x18 BFG AT KO2 which is almost exactly 32" not just the tire label which is usually not true) but I can get 14" under my rear diff. A vehicle with 35's, sitting on the them at highway psi, might have 17" to the centerline, then subtract 1/2 the differential size and I bet the clearance is only 11-12".

My lr3, has even more clearance at the front and even more in the middle at breakover, about 16".

I do not have a "lift" (the rod modification is a bad idea) but I use 2 electronic tools to access more lift when needed but ride low and stable/safe on the highway at speed or towing when needed. (IIDtool by GAP for dealing with codes, and small changes to height settings and LLAMS tool for on the fly +/- height changes)

People in the Seattle area may be familiar with the Elbe Hills ORV park. There's a sign for a trail, named Rainier view I think, which says "short wheel base vehicles with 36" tires, lockers, winch" I made it just fine kind of no big deal really with a couple tricky spots where the line between rocks is important and my sliders with nerf bars was imperative to keep door panels undamaged.

All in all, the modern Land Rovers can "do" a lot more with a lot less tire.

If you're the type who prefers lifts and big tires, which I enjoy just as much, then go with either a pre-air suspension Land Rover or a Land Cruiser. You may see that a 2008 Land Cruiser 200 series is more your style and they can fit 35's with slight mods, 33's stock (275/70x18).

 

[Jwestpro]

Yikes... going from 35 inch BFG MTs to 31.5s

Oh, and your jeep allowed 16" wheels right? Land Rover LR3 will currently fit no smaller than 18" until someone comes out with an aftermarket 17" unless you source LR3 V6 brake set, all 4, to allow factory 17" wheels that were on some early V6 models. A guy did it and wrote up so I know it's doable but that's a real desire for 17" tire choices.

 

[LandCruiserX]

Great info Jwest, im coming from a lifted 80 Series Cruiser, so just trying to maintain a good stance and practical capabilities. Im not a big lift, big tire guy, really prefer the low/level/practical look.

I was just reasearching the OME lift for the Land Rover LR3, was not sure how it worked, or if it required removal of the factory setup. Truth be told I would just prefer to go with a good size tire and maintain the factory susp setup.

 

[Jwestpro]

Great info Jwest, im coming from a lifted 80 Series Cruiser, so just trying to maintain a good stance and practical capabilities. Im not a big lift, big tire guy, really prefer the low/level/practical look.

I was just reasearching the OME lift for the Land Rover LR3, was not sure how it worked, or if it required removal of the factory setup. Truth be told I would just prefer to go with a good size tire and maintain the factory susp setup.

That's the best plan for the least hassle on these. The 265/65x18 size is really very nice because it's a little bigger providing some practical advantage while also being simple for daily use, even if it's getting in parking garages with a rack on the roof.

 

[Ray_G]

Great info Jwest, im coming from a lifted 80 Series Cruiser, so just trying to maintain a good stance and practical capabilities. Im not a big lift, big tire guy, really prefer the low/level/practical look.

I was just reasearching the OME lift for the Land Rover LR3, was not sure how it worked, or if it required removal of the factory setup. Truth be told I would just prefer to go with a good size tire and maintain the factory susp setup.

Jwest's info is spot on and he's got a lot of time in the seat of these; as discussed going beyond 32's really has very limited utility in these trucks and can only be done with a lot of pain. If you look through the sticky on 3/4's you'll see a good selection of what can be done with tires, but most of us seem to stick with 31.5-32's (Nwoods blog is a great resource as is the Johnson Rods page on tire sizes).

As far as the OME suspension goes, I wouldn't look to do that right up front without getting to know what the EAS provides. The 3/4 in stock form is exceptionally capable, that is really difficult to understate but to put it in perspective I've seen them walk lines that lifted/locked D90's on 35's struggled on even with relatively equal drivers. Put good rubber underneath and you will be astounded at what they can do. If you do decide to go with the coil conversion I wouldn't suggest doing it for bigger tires-I did it but that wasn't my rationale at all and will likely stick with my 31.5's, potentially shifting to BFG KO2s in 32 the next time I need tires-but that's all covered in my build thread so I won't clog up yours with my rambling.
r-
Ray

 

[mpinco]

Run General Grabber LT285/60-18's that are 31.5". They were covered in "Overland Journal performs a comprehensive comparison on seven of the most popular all-terrain tires", WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD

Use is everyday commuting, snow country, towing and off-road/rocks (Colorado 4WD trails). They work very well. At 31.5" did require some trimming of the front wheel well plastic. As for fitting into the LR3/4 spare location? ....... barely. Some trimming of shields was required. Downside is that LR's standard hitch will not fit with tire in that location so I have to move it to the cargo area when towing. (We really need a better receiver hitch design)

I would not go larger than 31.5". Not needed. I might go LT265/65-18 next time, depending on what is available. Personally some LR3/4 tire minimums are LT and 18".

Keep the air suspension. There are many benefits.

 

[Jwestpro]

As for fitting into the LR3/4 spare location? ....... barely. Some trimming of shields was required. Downside is that LR's standard hitch will not fit with tire in that location so I have to move it to the cargo area when towing. (We really need a better receiver hitch design)

1-"trimming of shields" ? There's only one "shield" in the spare area and it unbolts easily in a few minutes. Did you do a custom cut of only what was making contact? You should post a photo of that!

2-tire-hitch fit? Really? Within the first month in 2007 upon purchase, I installed the Kaymar but before that I did have a larger tire on and the hitch...however, it was the 1st generation which has a longer vertical length so maybe that allowed the tire to fit just a bit more than what you tried.

 

[99Discovery]

I'm not sure about the LR3, but my research indicated 32" could fit on a 2" lifted LR4/L322, but you would be immobilized in the event of an air-spring failure. 31.5's should run on the bump stops.

Once you start accounting for the cost of carrying air-springs as spares, the modern rover's become a bit pricey and you start to contemplate a 4-Runner. Current conversion kits are for stock-ride height only, so a conversion won't get you 32" tires either.

My plan, until my wife and I decided to keep the D2, was to but a decent 2006+ jag engined non-supercharged L322, fit it with 18", do the 2" lift, mount 32" Load Range E Cooper ATP/AT3s, and replace the air springs as part of first ownership maintenance. Then the older/worn air springs can be used as spares in the event of a failure.

In the end, my wife's back survived our trip to Moab in the D2 quite well, so we decided to spend the $$ on modifying the D2 rather than investing in a new rig.