RSB's Radiant Red Tacoma build

[RSB]

That's what I was thinking too. Depends on how the truck is used. But—I definitely see myself doing most except the most extreme-rated trails out there. Looks like it's a no-go then.

I saw those responses too and I have to agree that would be my concern but it depends on how you're going to use the truck. If you're going to do fire roads and relatively mild terrain you're probably golden. If you're going to do more challenging trails on the order of blue or red graded trails I'd say it would be a no-go. From your past posts, I'd say the latter - you're truck as is will do most of Moab, except the most extreme black-rated trails. Mine even made it through BTR unscathed so you'll have no problems.

No problem! I really do appreciate it. Thanks.

I'll include some pictures to help your visualization - no intent to hijack or picture whore - I hate that. But I'm a visual learner and it seems you really want some input so here goes...

Thank-you. Ahh, ok. Now I get it. Perhaps if I add a center support from the tray to the stock crossmember? And a skid plate with some additional gussets? Maybe this might work—although, it still doesn't fix the height problem.

It's a nice concept and I like how you used existing bolt holes for the crossmember - very tidy - but I'd be concerned about slamming that bracket on a rock ledge or shelf; without it being armored and even then, that could still force the tank and battery into your bed. Just thinking worse case; imagine going down that shelf and landing on that bracket - ugly.

Exactly. The space is too valuable to go unused!

But I'm with you - that's prime space to go unused. I'm thinking about that same space for an auxiliary tank and that's my challenge... finding an OEM tank that will tuck up there without hanging down too low. Tried an XJ tank (20 gal) but it's still too big... like running a 285/75/16 spare (which I moved to a rear bumper carrier).

Right—unfortunately though, I went with one of Odyssey's largest batteries and have ABS. Therefore, I couldn't find a way to fit both batteries under the hood. The Odyssey is bigger & heavier and because 90% of all the accessories are closer to the engine compartment, I decided to relocate the starter battery elsewhere.

If it was me, I would have tucked the battery in the engine compartment like I did on my build, and your research will show others have as well in the same area or others locations.

I agree, CO2 would be a lot better for running air tools. But I decided to go with air (for now) primarily because I don't need to worry about running-out and not having a plan B. In the future, I'd love to have both.

As far as the tank, why do you need that much air reserve? Air tools? Do you expect you're going to wheel your truck that hard that you'll need air tools to make field repairs? If that's the case maybe you do need it, but you can run most air tools from a CO2 tank pretty easily (I have one mounted in the bed).

Thank-you for the kind words and I again—I appreciate your feedback. I'll find a way to make this work!

Good luck with your decision - I enjoy watching your progress with the truck - whichever way you decide to go I'm sure it will work out in the end.

 

[RSB]

Based on the feedback I've been getting on TTORA and here on ExPo, I'm going to re-evaluate this. Will keep everyone posted.

 

[TangoBlue]

All logical reasons for the well-thought out path you took.

That said i recommend you beef up your bracket with a few gussets, add some protection to the accessory platform, make sure the frame bolts are grade 8 (thinking of bolt shear if the platform does happen to get pushed up) and take it slow. That'll make it mega-stout and nothing that you're doing is permanent so it can be easily returned to stock configuration.

Also, that crossmember maintains a lot of frame rigidity. I just tried to take it out last week to muck around with aux tank fitment and the frame will shift a tiny bit making it a bear to get the captive nuts aligned again to the frame when rethreading the bolts. Just keep an eye on it when you go to replace bolts to ease your fitment.

Half the fun of this is "noodling out" a solution, experimenting, and building it better, right? Good luck!

 

[RSB]

Absolutely! I'm really having fun with this one. I wasn't completely sure how it'd turn-out and knew I'd get some helpful feedback on it either way.

Well noted about the frame rigidity. Will remember that.

All logical reasons for the well-thought out path you took.

That said i recommend you beef up your bracket with a few gussets, add some protection to the accessory platform, make sure the frame bolts are grade 8 (thinking of bolt shear if the platform does happen to get pushed up) and take it slow. That'll make it mega-stout and nothing that you're doing is permanent so it can be easily returned to stock configuration.

Also, that crossmember maintains a lot of frame rigidity. I just tried to take it out last week to muck around with aux tank fitment and the frame will shift a tiny bit making it a bear to get the captive nuts aligned again to the frame when rethreading the bolts. Just keep an eye on it when you go to replace bolts to ease your fitment.

Half the fun of this is "noodling out" a solution, experimenting, and building it better, right? Good luck!

 

[frgtwn]

Since there is no end to "other ways", here's a few more.

After you turn the metal channel over, perhaps you can slip the air tank on its side and gain a few inches. And, turn the battery on its side? In any event, you can gain some room by cutting the air tank brackets off, or rewelding them closer to the tank. I would leave the tank welds on (don't mess with them), however I'd have no problem with welding the shortened brackets back to a shortened stubb.

It is really hard to tell how high the assembly is from 1400 miles away. And, it is really easy to overstate the potential trail problems with the unit as is. But, I understand good, better, best. Then, improve it.

----------------

Now, for an entirely different track. Not my idea, and I have not seen any attempts at this, but nevertheless, a possibility.

The idea is for a "trunk" in that area, accessed from a trap door in the bed, very much like spare tire access on cars.

Lotta work, but here we go:

Cut out all crossmembers back there, as well as the unused tirecrank jobber. (Nail down your shock needs, and leave them in place, or plan accordingly.)

Weld in an infill piece on the C-channel frame on both sides. (Box the frame)

Design and build a sheet metal box, or sheet steel, perhaps, that includes protection from that unseen rock.


Include in this process the need for new crossmembers, including the bumper in the equation.

Cut a pretty hole in your bed for access. Figure out how to fasten it. (Dzu's?)

At some point, you now have room for your spare tire back where it once was. Interesting? Of course, just like a flat on the freeway, everything has to come out to get to the tire, but, really, how often does that happen? At least in either scenario, battery/air tank, or spare you're not underneath in the mud and muck. And, you have the best of protection for whatever you decide to put in you new trunk. And a better frame/crossmember setup, and wouldn't it be cool to be the first on your block?

I have certainly enjoyed this thread, and your williingness to listen to input. And, you have the rig to show for it.

I'm headed to OKC in a few weeks, so will PM you when plans firm up. Would love to meet you and the Red Taco

Dale

 

[RSB]

Agreed. That's a good idea.

After you turn the metal channel over, perhaps you can slip the air tank on its side and gain a few inches. And, turn the battery on its side? In any event, you can gain some room by cutting the air tank brackets off, or rewelding them closer to the tank. I would leave the tank welds on (don't mess with them), however I'd have no problem with welding the shortened brackets back to a shortened stubb.

Haha yes. Completely understand.

It is really hard to tell how high the assembly is from 1400 miles away. And, it is really easy to overstate the potential trail problems with the unit as is. But, I understand good, better, best. Then, improve it.

Yes! the same type of configuration was suggested over on TTORA. I'm really interested in this idea. Here's some pics of it done by 'Da Kid'...

Original thread:

http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158078

Now, for an entirely different track. Not my idea, and I have not seen any attempts at this, but nevertheless, a possibility.

The idea is for a "trunk" in that area, accessed from a trap door in the bed, very much like spare tire access on cars.

Lotta work, but here we go:

Cut out all crossmembers back there, as well as the unused tirecrank jobber. (Nail down your shock needs, and leave them in place, or plan accordingly.)

Weld in an infill piece on the C-channel frame on both sides. (Box the frame)

Design and build a sheet metal box, or sheet steel, perhaps, that includes protection from that unseen rock.


Include in this process the need for new crossmembers, including the bumper in the equation.

Cut a pretty hole in your bed for access. Figure out how to fasten it. (Dzu's?)

At some point, you now have room for your spare tire back where it once was. Interesting? Of course, just like a flat on the freeway, everything has to come out to get to the tire, but, really, how often does that happen? At least in either scenario, battery/air tank, or spare you're not underneath in the mud and muck. And, you have the best of protection for whatever you decide to put in you new trunk. And a better frame/crossmember setup, and wouldn't it be cool to be the first on your block?

Thanks, Dale! I appreciate it. I look forward to it.

I have certainly enjoyed this thread, and your williingness to listen to input. And, you have the rig to show for it.

I'm headed to OKC in a few weeks, so will PM you when plans firm up. Would love to meet you and the Red Taco

Dale

 

[RSB]

I agree a completely enclosed box is probably the best solution for both durability and protection from the elements. Although it'd be nice, I still can't justify the amount of work that would be required to have access to a recessed box in the bed for the purpose I'd use it for. The design permitting easier accessibility would also be unnecessary. I also have a few other concerns with the design...

1) Greater potential for water coming through the bed, despite weatherstripping.
2) The hatch not being flush with the bed. Although not too big of a deal, when the canopy isn't on, having the ability to slide things around in the bed without much resistance is a nice feature to have.

Another problem I see is due to the enclosed box design. I don't see a way to access the drain plug to the tank. Any suggestions here? Even with access from the top, I see this being a problem unless the box was built wide enough for a hand to reachunderneath.

An alternative option is a heavy duty plastic battery box with an exposed air tank, similar to this one from Moroso:

I like this idea because I feel more confident getting a better seal with plastic over steel. I also like the weight savings and the ability to still access the drain plug on the air tank.

Anyway, I'm starting to lean more towards this direction. The battery box could be bolted to the stock cross member with 2 center supports, skid plate and gusseted brackets. I think I can get them 3.5-4 in higher than they are right now... :ylsmoke:

But—I'm still not firm on this.

 

[RSB]

Some additional info...

The reason the drop brackets were designed to bolt-on to the stock cross member was not only for convenience, but also due to the limited space to fabricate a new cross member just forward of the shock mount on the driver side—where the air tank & battery are positioned.

The reason why the air tank & battery aren't positioned directly underneath the stock cross member is to leave as much space in the rear of the bed as possible for a future auxiliary fuel tank.

 

[soonenough]

another prob I see is more due to the enclosed box design. I don't see a way to access the drain plug to the tank. Any suggestions here?

You could leave plumb the drain valve on the tank to a second drain valve mounted to the box. You'd leave the drain valve on the tank open all the time, and then just open the drain valve on the box when needed.

Since most drain valves have NPT threads on the back of them, you'd basically need to drill a straight hole through the box and use an NPT nut on the inside of the box. With a little RTV on the outside of the box, it should be pretty water tight. That's one option that could be done for cheap.

 

[RSB]

Okay, I thought about this—but then this would make the valve vulnerable by becoming the lowest point on the box, right?

So, then I was thinking—could the valve be relocated to a higher position without defeating the purpose of the drain valve? Hmm...

Otherwise, perhaps I could weld some type of shield around the valve for protection.

You could leave plumb the drain valve on the tank to a second drain valve mounted to the box. You'd leave the drain valve on the tank open all the time, and then just open the drain valve on the box when needed.

Since most drain valves have NPT threads on the back of them, you'd basically need to drill a straight hole through the box and use an NPT nut on the inside of the box. With a little RTV on the outside of the box, it should be pretty water tight. That's one option that could be done for cheap.

 

[java]

put the valve on the end of a piece of flexible tubing, when its time to empty the tank maybe have the door of the box open to the side and pull the tube out, hold it down and drain the tank.

 

[soonenough]

Or just make sure you always open the outer drain valve with full pressure inside the tank. As long as the inner drain fitting is positioned at the bottom of the tank, the sudden rush of air should push any fluid out the line when you open the outer valve.

I've never run an OBA system before, but I'd be surprised if there was a ton of liquid accumulation in that tank anyway. How much is the compressor realistically going to run? If you're really concerned about it, you might be able to rig up one of those little auto-drain systems that are made for larger upright compressors, and it will automatically drain the tank for you.

Also, the compressor is mounted somewhere remote from the tank (I'm not sure where; I didn't go back through the thread and look). Unless you can ensure that the compressor output line is always traveling 'downhill' as it makes its way to the tank, a large amount of the condensation is probably going to accumulate in that line, given the relatively low velocity of the air traveling through it.

 

[java]

Or just make sure you always open the outer drain valve with full pressure inside the tank. As long as the inner drain fitting is positioned at the bottom of the tank, the sudden rush of air should push any fluid out the line when you open the outer valve.

I've never run an OBA system before, but I'd be surprised if there was a ton of liquid accumulation in that tank anyway. How much is the compressor realistically going to run? If you're really concerned about it, you might be able to rig up one of those little auto-drain systems that are made for larger upright compressors, and it will automatically drain the tank for you.

Also, the compressor is mounted somewhere remote from the tank (I'm not sure where; I didn't go back through the thread and look). Unless you can ensure that the compressor output line is always traveling 'downhill' as it makes its way to the tank, a large amount of the condensation is probably going to accumulate in that line, given the relatively low velocity of the air traveling through it.

im no expert but i work construction and drain compressors all the time, but i dont think the air pressure will push the liquid out. we have one compressor with the valve off center on the bottom and you have to tip it just right to get the water out.

im not sure how much condensation the small compressors make but i know they arent as efficient as the larger ones, thus making the outlet air very hot and making it condense more. but they dont move the air volumes a larger one does so maybe its about even.

 

[frgtwn]

There is only so much real estate back there, so your needs have to be addressed in one big complicated picture.

There are two big space wasters, well three, including the exhaust. The others are the rear facing shock, and the, now superfluous spare tire winch/crossmember. The crossmember, if removed, needs a new home somewhere else.

First, the rear facing shock, and the forward facing shock can both be moved to a new crossmember in the rear of the dif. This is common, and well documented.

Now, the spare/winch/crossmember: If you want to leave it, then how about you use it?

It could work like this. Make a box the size you want. Whatever material you want. Put everything inside, lay it under the truck, and lift it into position with the heretofor useless spare/winch. A couple tabs/safety bolts/pins and you're in business. Want inside? Remove safety pins, lower like your spare, and have at it. This could have a top on it- just leave a hole centered for the lifting chain.

Now, if you are in the mood to remove the clumsy crossmember and spare/ winch, you will find a lot more room up there to use. And, if you have a 1" bodylift, even better.

In spite of all that has been said, by others as well as myself, if you are planning on an eventual gas tank back there, then that is where to start. I know, too many questions.

And I do like the battery box you posted. And the tank drain on a new flexible hose is straightforward, and simple. A good idea.

As to the exhaust, that puzzles me as well. I have thought of routing it over the axle, and out the side of the body or bumper sides. Unusual, I know, but I'm still thinking on that one.

 

[RSB]

Just how much of an impact would salt have on the tank if it were exposed? I thought this was something typically done. I'm not trying to find a shortcut here (obviously not something I like to do ), I guess I just assumed they were designed to withstand the elements (the powdercoating?) because others have mounted their tanks underneath the same way.

Clearly—anything enclosed would be better but to what extent for the air tank? for the battery, it's obvious. Perhaps a fully enclosed battery and exposed air tank is still a viable option. I need to do some more research...

Thank-you everyone for your continued input.