Running the truck in idle? for power
- Thread starter codename607
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luthj
Engineer In Residence
The DI units are a different ball game. Many would benefit from a high detergent diesel oil to keep the intakes clean. The soot accumulation in the intake a bit different than the combustion chamber carbon buildup seen on older carb and early FI engines used at low loads.
Are there any DI gasoline engines used in the light and medium trucks? I am not an avid truck guy, so no idea.
Are there any DI gasoline engines used in the light and medium trucks? I am not an avid truck guy, so no idea.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
The OP's 2018 Tacoma has a 2GR-FKS (the 3.5L V6), which is a direct injection on-demand Atkinson cycle engine. So absolutely a relevant post by @ITTOG.
https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-advances-d4s-self-cleaning-feature-tacoma
"The automaker believes it has solved the conundrum of carbon build-up on injectors with a new self-cleaning feature for D-4S, a technology that debuted 10 years ago on the ’05 Lexus GS 350 and ’06 Lexus IS 350 and today is used in the current-gen Lexus IS, GS and RC and Scion FR-S sports car.
“What we’re doing is we have a slit on the side of our injector and we’re blowing that carbon off,” Mike Sweers, the ’16 Tacoma’s chief engineer, tells WardsAuto here during the truck’s media preview. “If we tried to use just high pressure, using just the nozzle itself, you would clean the bottom of that nozzle.
“But since the carbon grows from the outside and comes around, you would still plug up that injector,” he adds. “So by cleaning on the outside of that, we get a clean injector all the time.”
Drivers may hear the self-cleaning taking place during a hot idle, and the process could last from 10 seconds to as long as 10 minutes, depending on driving patterns and the amount of build-up on the injectors."
luthj
Engineer In Residence
Interesting. So the DI injector clean cycle is an idle thing? Or is it just a periodic maintenance by the ECU? Man, the DI adds complexity that gives me the chills... From what I understand on DI engines, the fuel is burning as it is injected (multiple events per cycle?) So it has a tendency to coke up around the injector nozzle.
Still, given that the idling is not regular (days per week), and the vehicle gets regular medium to high load usage, I don't see any major wear concerns. Now if the Toyota experts know of some issue with the modest idling on specific engines, that would be a different case. At least with regards to intake or DI carbon stuff.
On the older ford and GM non DI stuff, I have owned (or my family/friends have owned) several vehicles that say medium level of iding, somtimes for an hour or two a day, up to 8 or more hours in a stretch. No major issues, though one truck had stuck rings on two cylinders at 250k miles (07 F150).
Still, given that the idling is not regular (days per week), and the vehicle gets regular medium to high load usage, I don't see any major wear concerns. Now if the Toyota experts know of some issue with the modest idling on specific engines, that would be a different case. At least with regards to intake or DI carbon stuff.
On the older ford and GM non DI stuff, I have owned (or my family/friends have owned) several vehicles that say medium level of iding, somtimes for an hour or two a day, up to 8 or more hours in a stretch. No major issues, though one truck had stuck rings on two cylinders at 250k miles (07 F150).
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Buy a cheap gasoline engine, like a Ford 6.2L which is rock solid, and idle the hell out of it. Go for it. Just change the oil every X amount of hours (as per the display) and you will be fine. If the engine ever were to blow up, do you know how cheap it is to replace a 6.2L? Or fix it? Cheap.
I often do wonder why we spend so much time planning out solar systems and complex propane and generator systems. Would make a lot more sense to just build an all electric camper with 6kw batteries and then run the truck automatically at high idle anytime the batteries hit 50%. Simple.
I often do wonder why we spend so much time planning out solar systems and complex propane and generator systems. Would make a lot more sense to just build an all electric camper with 6kw batteries and then run the truck automatically at high idle anytime the batteries hit 50%. Simple.
codename607
Adventurer
Thanks everyone for all of the feedback.
To clear out some questions:
1) I have a Goal Zero Yeti 400 with the old battery(not lithium).
2) I do have a 100 watt solar panel that I can charge the Yeti but often times when I need the extra charge it's cloudy or I'm in a heavily shaded area.
In all honesty, I'd probably only need to do this 4-5 times a year, as I mostly drive to a new location every day when camping.
Moving forward I will likely get a small 1000 watt generator(Sportsman 1000) to help charge the Yeti. I've seen them on sale for $200 - $300 bucks and I could use this for other reasons which makes it a functional item.
To clear out some questions:
1) I have a Goal Zero Yeti 400 with the old battery(not lithium).
2) I do have a 100 watt solar panel that I can charge the Yeti but often times when I need the extra charge it's cloudy or I'm in a heavily shaded area.
In all honesty, I'd probably only need to do this 4-5 times a year, as I mostly drive to a new location every day when camping.
Moving forward I will likely get a small 1000 watt generator(Sportsman 1000) to help charge the Yeti. I've seen them on sale for $200 - $300 bucks and I could use this for other reasons which makes it a functional item.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
The Goal Zero Yeti 400 appears to have a 10 amp charging connection and a 33 A-hr SLA battery.
restorationrides
Member
Idling motors tend to run HOT not COLD. That is why over the years, you could see commercial and civil service vehicles with the hoods open that were being idled for extended periods of time. It's not necessary for the most part anymore because most modern vehicles have more robust (larger multirow radiators), well ducted (shrouded) radiator cooling systems, and electric fans which can pull in the air effectively whether or not the vehicle's moving forward.
Yes, the combination of unburned fuel and moisture inside the exhaust system can lead to corrosion but vehicles that have modern Pollution Control Systems do not leave large amounts of unburned or partially burned fuel in the exhaust stream (compared to older precat systems). And because idling represents an inefficient RPM range for most modern vehicles, there tends to be an excess of hydrocarbons exiting the engine and entering the cat system. So the cats are working a little bit of overtime there to keep things clean which makes for very warm exhaust and eliminates the need to worry about excessive corrosion.
What is important is to NOT start a vehicle and run it for a short period of time and then shut it off before it (including the exhaust system) gets all warmed up. Doing this repeatedly can lead to excessive corrosion in the exhaust system and other engine related issues...
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restorationrides
Member
I see no reason for there to be any carbon buildup on the intake manifold on a direct injected motor. A direct injected motor is just that. The fuel (the carbon source) bypasses the induction system and is injected directly into the cylinder under high pressure. The only thing that goes through the intake manifold is air. BTW, you would need to have a significantly leaky intake valve that was burping hot exhaust back into the intake manifold and that would only affect that cylinder, at which time you would have a larger problem than carbon buildup on the intake manifold...
Regards,
RestorationRides
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restorationrides
Member
Can you provide some links of the supposed intake manifold carbon issues...? if there is truly carbon in the intake manifold, something else is wrong...
Regards,
RestorationRides
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ITTOG
Well-known member
I will look for the link but it was in the f150ecoboost.net forums.Can you provide some links of the supposed intake manifold carbon issues...? if there is truly carbon in the intake manifold, something else is wrong...
Regards,
RestorationRides
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dreadlocks
Well-known member
go read up on the EGR that is required emissions controll device, thats the source of carbon.. mine was replaced under warranty so they just put a new manifold on since the variable vanes stoped being operational.. there's a service bulletin for it because its so common.
Generic Article: https://brentuning.com/?news=the-importance-of-carbon-cleaning-your-direct-inject-engine
delete the EGR and/or reprogram it so its never used and the problem goes away with DI engines.. in our case it was likely exasperated by the fact the vehicle was just used for short trips to the store, since EGR is basically 100% duty to warm up the engine it clogged er up fast.
now I seafoam spray it through the intake from time to time after giving it a good beating and hope for the best.
back to the OP, I tried this on my last setup and it didnt work out all that great.. was never willing to idle it long enough to get SLA battery back up to 100%, was abusing batteries and they simply never lasted long.. so this time around I got a small generator that I can run as much as needed, even if we are away from camp fishing/hiking/wheeling.
Generic Article: https://brentuning.com/?news=the-importance-of-carbon-cleaning-your-direct-inject-engine
delete the EGR and/or reprogram it so its never used and the problem goes away with DI engines.. in our case it was likely exasperated by the fact the vehicle was just used for short trips to the store, since EGR is basically 100% duty to warm up the engine it clogged er up fast.
now I seafoam spray it through the intake from time to time after giving it a good beating and hope for the best.
back to the OP, I tried this on my last setup and it didnt work out all that great.. was never willing to idle it long enough to get SLA battery back up to 100%, was abusing batteries and they simply never lasted long.. so this time around I got a small generator that I can run as much as needed, even if we are away from camp fishing/hiking/wheeling.
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restorationrides
Member
Thanks for the link.
I just did some more research because I was unfamiliar with the problem. Interesting problem. I always tell my kids, there is no end of opportunity to be a problem solver...for every new idea, we create at least one new significant new problem to be dealt with!
Anyway, my brief research leads me to believe that most of the people who are talking about this issue seem to think it's a result of crankcase blow-by from the PCV system; while others attribute the problem strictly to contamination from EGR gases.
On a properly operating engine, the EGR system would be mostly burned and semi-burned hydrocarbon gases resulting directly from the combustion process. It would seem that those hot gases would contain mostly light, fluffy and dry (not oily) partial-combustion HC particulate matter mixed in wirh them.
On the other hand, on that same properly operating engine, any PCV-related gases would be mostly oil droplets and oily gases since they are coming directly from the hot oil in a closed crankcase environment. Further, most of the soot from any blow-by (during the combustion process) that escaped into the crankcase system would likely be captured in the hot oil film that covers every square inch of the crankcase side of the motor and would remain there as entrained soot in the engine oil (until oil is changed).
To me, it would seem that these hot, sticky oil vapors coming from the PCV system are being carried downstream in the intake manifold and instantly carbonizing as they strike the backside of the hot intake valves..
And so, IMHO, it would seem that the PCV related hydrocarbons would be a much bigger problem (especially if the engine has excessive blow-by) than particulate matter coming from the EGR.
I would like to hear some more thoughts on the subject...
Regards,
RestorationRides
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dreadlocks
Well-known member
This is an ALH TDI Intake Manifold (early 2000's VW Diesel, one of the first direct injections we had)
These problems went away and never came back when they started deleting the EGR, yeah when everything is up to operating temp and running 100% in theory it should not be much unburnt fuel in it.. the problem is cold start is when most engines pollute the most until they reach operating temp, EGR is used to hasten this and reduce time spent w/a cold engine.. durring these times when the vehicle has the worst pollution its being forced to breath its exhaust.. its like breathing your own farts after getting drunk at a Mexican restaurant.
If any of the air sensors (Manifold Pressure/Mass Airflow/O2 Sensor) start to fail or do fail and get driven on for any time then the EGR would be recirculating some pretty nasty stuff too.
These problems went away and never came back when they started deleting the EGR, yeah when everything is up to operating temp and running 100% in theory it should not be much unburnt fuel in it.. the problem is cold start is when most engines pollute the most until they reach operating temp, EGR is used to hasten this and reduce time spent w/a cold engine.. durring these times when the vehicle has the worst pollution its being forced to breath its exhaust.. its like breathing your own farts after getting drunk at a Mexican restaurant.
If any of the air sensors (Manifold Pressure/Mass Airflow/O2 Sensor) start to fail or do fail and get driven on for any time then the EGR would be recirculating some pretty nasty stuff too.
