Sad End to This Cautionary Tale, As Folks Start to Head Back Out Into the Wilds, Pls Be Careful
- Thread starter AbleGuy
- Start date
billiebob
Well-known member
WOW, such insight, how the ******** do you know they did NOT turn back after the first flat ?????
And please post the pictures showing the wonderful, driveable condition it was in when abandoned.
I understand the need to contribute opinions to a bad situation, but quit assuming you know what happened.
This was a tragedy, We lost an overlander with a passion for overlanding. And from all the news, he was a pretty fantastic person.
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billiebob
Well-known member
That said, good coms, people who know where you are going, staying on course, checking in daily.
Most every tragedy off road is a result of straying off course. Complicating a search and rescue. And bad luck.
All three played a part here. Tons of room for critiquing this tragedy, tires, SUV, comms could all be better.
But ultimately you could easily survive in a VW Beetle with bald tires if people know where to find you.
The problem is our belief we are invincible.
Most every tragedy off road is a result of straying off course. Complicating a search and rescue. And bad luck.
All three played a part here. Tons of room for critiquing this tragedy, tires, SUV, comms could all be better.
But ultimately you could easily survive in a VW Beetle with bald tires if people know where to find you.
The problem is our belief we are invincible.
Kmrtnsn
Explorer
The couple underestimated the terrain from their map. Not sure if they had a topo map. I'm familiar with the terrain in that area as I have gone canyoneering there and been through many of the canyons. Very steep terrain with 200' rappels.
I'm still trying to figure what drew them to Mormon Point There are two nearby trail heads but that’s it. I’d love to see what map they were working with.
Rallyroo
Expedition Leader
No idea what map they had. They had to hike 22 some miles to go back east to the major road. They probably thought about going west to hit Badwater Road for the shorter distance. Rather than stay with car or backtrack, it seems they chose to go into the unknown (to them).
Assuming they walked to the end of Gold Valley Rd (the road they got two flats on) on the western side and hiked to Willow Springs in attempt to find more water before going toward Mormon Point. I plotted two hypothetical routes to see the elevation profile.
From Mile 2 to Mile 3 is a 2,000 ft elevation drop
From Mile 0 to Mile 2.5 is a 2,300 ft elevation drop
Lovetheworld
Active member
Dude shut up. I was agreeing with you, and this is just an oppertunity to learn from.
I am not trying to contribute opinions, we are trying to learn from it.
It was probably a nice couple, and not completely unprepared. Could've been one of us easily.
For example I learn from the fact to stay with your car, as a good option in the US national parks.
Where we have been in desert areas, in Asia and Africa, it would not be a good option is to stay with the vehicle because nobody would be looking
Backtracking would be better. But we carried sattelite communication.
For the US, typical case is tourists who don't carry sattelite communication and don't know the area. Like the internet example of the Germans.
So I like the option of backtracking.
And if I ever go to US with a 4x4, reading these kind of messages means I would opt for sattelite comms as I have done for Asia. I would not opt for it before, just like I don't opt for satellite comms in Europe. But Europe is on average a bit less dangerous because of the climate and distances to houses/people never being that high. Can still happen though.
Porkchopexpress
Well-known member
I have responded to search and rescue and finding someone without a signal device is a lot more difficult than you might think. The most effective device is obviously a satellite based locator beacon with a subscription service. Radios and signal mirrors are also effective if you know how to use them. The most effective visual signal is definitely a light source at night because most SAR responders in the US should have night vision devices. You can probably see a flashlight from 10 miles away under the right conditions.
Kmrtnsn
Explorer
No idea what map they had. They had to hike 22 some miles to go back east to the major road. They probably thought about going west to hit Badwater Road for the shorter distance. Rather than stay with car or backtrack, it seems they chose to go into the unknown (to them).
Assuming they walked to the end of Gold Valley Rd (the road they got two flats on) on the western side and hiked to Willow Springs in attempt to find more water before going toward Mormon Point. I plotted two hypothetical routes to see the elevation profile.
From Mile 2 to Mile 3 is a 2,000 ft elevation drop
From Mile 0 to Mile 2.5 is a 2,300 ft elevation drop
One thing I have learned is that looking up at terrain is always deceptive, with false summits, a poor understanding of actual distance, etc. looking down from up high presents the same problems. Even the best detailed topo maps omit things like rock outcroppings, deep cuts, and the true nature of slopes, you can only explain so much graphically with terrain lines set so far apart. It is near impossible to walk a straight line on a hillside, ridge, or finger in Death Valley, the ground is littered with rock of various size and vegetable matter that bites, forcing you to constantly be stepping over or around something. Its treacherous and terribly fatiguing.
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BritKLR
Kapitis Indagatoris
One of the best "use of light at night" SAR's techniques I learned doing SAR's in the Rockies is as LE and SAR's start setting a perimeter they'll shoot their "A" pillar vehicle spotlight or HP LED light source up into the tops of the trees (not to many in the desert of course) to create lighted points in the forest for both the lost party and/or Rescuers. Works even better with snow on the ground due to the increased reflectivity.
Kmrtnsn
Explorer
having spent a bit of my life sitting in the open door of a helicopter or pressed against a bubble window looking down at things there two things that fit in a pack, take little room, and make finding you so much easier. One is modern version of the old panel marker. ITS Tactical makes some nice, small, lightweight versions that pack tiny. Nothing stands out in a sea of tan, brown, green, blue or white like fluorescent pink or orange. The other is a combination of a foil rescue blanket and a strobe. Neither weigh much, nor do they take much space. Want to make the strobe more effective? Place it in the middle of a spread foil rescue blanket.
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I travel with a ton of lights... and have a foil rescue blanket... but will be ordering a panel marker and small strobe today to add to my kit. Thanks!
Wait, Gold Valley Road doesn't connect to Badwater Road? I'd been looking for Gold Valley Road and hadn't found it yet. So it's on the east side of the mountains by Badwater Road and doesn't connect? Then why in the hell try to hike through the mountains versus go back out the road? Are there good hiking trails that start at the end of Gold Valley Road and go through the mountains down to Badwater Road? Again, I hope the survivor shares what their plan was and what happened.
Lovetheworld
Active member
Yeah I always liked the Spot for that reason.
Pretty cheap, and you don't have to pay for a sattelite phone and subscription.
Kmrtnsn
Explorer
BigDawwg
-[Gettin-it Done]-
Ok,,,,,, with all the "********" you guys buy for your Overlanding Adventures,,,,, a Sat-Phone can be used with a plan that does "NOT" have to be "Turned-on" all year,,,, you can activate when needed,,,, Easy-Peasy,,,,, I've been doing it for years,,,,, and you don't have to Buy one either, you can Rent for what ever time you need, and the Rental Fee will in-clude Air-time as well, So,,,,,,, what's your Life Worth, and or your Loved ones that maybe with you on this Adventure,,,,,,,, think about it.
BD in Alaska
BD in Alaska
