Sad End to This Cautionary Tale, As Folks Start to Head Back Out Into the Wilds, Pls Be Careful

[billiebob]

I understand you need a cell signal today for these to work properly and transmit vids/pictures back to your base, but perhaps someday in the not too distant future we’ll be able to buy and carry lightweight tiny, palm sized camera drones to use to better scout the route ahead of us when in the wilds...ones that broadcast via sat feeds?

yep, technology is freaking amazing, but when things go wrong, stick to the basics.
Stay with the vehicle.
Hike out the route you came in.
Technology will always die at the most inopportune time.

 

[billiebob]

Yes. I've gone out in the past with some people who liked to take risky routes. If I felt the route was dangerous or beyond my skill, I looked for a go around. Now a days, I only travel with people I know have the same risk acceptance as I do. I went with one dude a while ago who was bent on finding the deepest mudhole he could find. I had to pull him out twice. After that, he wanted a third go at it. I told him he was on his own and very much meant it. It was crazy. He even had soft shackles with him and had zero idea how to use them.

If I get myself in a jam, I don't start to push forward harder, I just look around and think about my options. Panic is a killer.

This defines why I travel solo.

 

[ducktapeguy]

What a tragedy. Aside from all of our little survival tricks (Inreach, fire, signaling etc) not sure why people are advocating for anything other than: STAYING WITH YOUR SHELTER (in this case a car). Unless you have the tools, the beta and the knowhow, stay with the car. People drive on roads. Rescuers drive on roads. Roads are visible from the sky. That is the rule. When lost and without resources, do not stray from it.

Generally, I would agree that's good advice, but you have to be careful in applying it to all situations. Especially in a place like Death Valley. Just because you're on a road in DV doesn't mean you're going run across people. Even during peak season when there are thousands of people wandering around, they mostly stay on the major highways. A small percentage of them will explore the backroads. When it starts getting hot, most of DV will be completely empty for months. Again, look back at the story about the Death Valley Germans. Their car got stuck in July, but it wasn't found until October, and only because it was noticed by an air patrol, not someone driving by. That's 3 months they would have been sitting out there in the desert waiting for rescue. This area that the couple was stuck is probably just as remote, so it could have been a long time before someone came across them.

If you look at the timeline, they were supposed to return on April 4th. So they were most likely stuck on or before April 3rd. The search didn't start until the 6th, and their car wasn't found until the 8th. That means they were out there for at least 5 days, possibly more. I'm assuming they were at the end of Gold Valley road from reading the articles, and the canyon where they were found is less than 2 miles long, so they were found less than a few hours away from the car. That means they could have possibly stayed with the car for 5 days or more before making the decision to walk for help.

" Willow Creek flows through a moderately deep and narrow canyon for 3 miles, from Willow Spring quite high up in the Black Mountains to the hills at the edge of the valley, where the water sinks below ground or evaporates. The stream is only significant in winter and spring"

So probably. But it's a moot point because they didn't need water.

The rest of the quote "The stream is only significant in winter and spring as during the long, hot summer the canyon dries up completely apart from a few algae-filled pools that persist all year."

They said they had 3 days worth of water, but that doesn't mean they didn't need water. Unfortunately since DV had <1" of rain last year, the chances of that spring being dry was pretty high.

I agree, that for them, it was a viable option. Probably not much else to burn out there . Just as a general precaution about what to do when lost - maybe the best advice is to think long and hard about your choices - before making them.

Looking at Willow Creek on GE and in the NPS flyer, I would never have even considered downclimbing that. - Even with that, my approach has always been to stay as high as possible - following the ridge lines instead of valleys which appears to have been a good choice in this case.

When hiking in the desert, I avoid the ridgelines as much as possible and stay in the canyons. It's cooler, a lot more interesting, and cooler. And did I mention it's cooler?

 

[DirtWhiskey]

If you look at the timeline, they were supposed to return on April 4th. So they were most likely stuck on or before April 3rd. The search didn't start until the 6th, and their car wasn't found until the 8th. That means they were out there for at least 5 days, possibly more. I'm assuming they were at the end of Gold Valley road from reading the articles, and the canyon where they were found is less than 2 miles long, so they were found less than a few hours away from the car. That means they could have possibly stayed with the car for 5 days or more before making the decision to walk for help.

And if they'd have stayed with their vehicle they might still be alive. Of course there are outliers but the general rule is a rule for a reason. Cars do lots of things. Shelter from cold, shade from sun. You can burn fuel or oil for heat. Start fires for signals. Burn the rugs. I could go on. Having participated in SAR, I'd say 90% of the time, moving around complicates and compounds stuff.

 

[rruff]

And if they'd have stayed with their vehicle they might still be alive.

Or they may have *both* died.

The fatal error was poor judgement in hiking/scrambling. Trying to cross a dangerous area leading to injury and death. If they hadn't done *that* they'd both still be alive. A paved road was < 5miles away; a few hour hike. They unwittingly picked the worst way to get there. When faced with an obstacle that you can't safley traverse, turn around and try a different path.

I find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum would choose to sit in their car *hoping* for SAR to eventually come and save them (and die if they are late), when there is a short hike to get help and likely no drama involved.

 

[jbaucom]

Or they may have *both* died.

Not at all, in this instance. Considering that their car was located before they were, and that she was still alive, it's safe to say with nearly 100% confidence that they would both be alive now if they'd stayed with the car.

 

[rruff]

Not at all, in this instance. Considering that their car was located before they were, and that she was still alive, it's safe to say with nearly 100% confidence that they would both be alive now if they'd stayed with the car.

Only in hindsight. What they did *should* have been less risky than just sitting and waiting. Given their circumstances, I'd be walking 100% of the time.

 

[roving1]

I find it perplexing not being able to get a Subaru out of that road, even with two flats.

I go into areas like this with 80L of water just for myself. I always see people, sometimes in rigs with a crazy level of prep, with 10-20L often for 2 people and just shudder. I have at least a chance of fixing or solving problems or being found out in the middle of nowhere. I have zero chance of making water.

 

[billiebob]

They had no training or if they had they forgot it real quick.

This defines stress, challenge, ******** hitting the fan.
Most of us can plan and travel well. We stick to the plan. We are willing to turn back when things look bed.
But throw in a break down, 2 flat tires and our vision narrows. We make choices without relly considering other choices.
Even the most knowledgeable miss options and once a decision is made we stick to that course regardless.

Sometimes those with little training do better.
They stick to the plan as they told thier friends.
When things go wrong they are willing to turn back
They were told stay with the vehicle and since they know someone will come looking, they do that.

Honestly I think experience and training make some of us feel .......

 

[Mass_Mopar]

Again, look back at the story about the Death Valley Germans. Their car got stuck in July, but it wasn't found until October, and only because it was noticed by an air patrol, not someone driving by.

I keep seeing the death valley germans story being used as a comparison/"reason not to stay with the car". The Germans drove a minivan 2.4 miles down an abandoned road in Anvil Canyon and then another 200 feet down a wash. There was no chance a passing tourist would find them, they were buried far out of sight down a canyon. Their situation was vastly different than a subaru on a mapped park road with a couple flats.

That said, the death valley germans and this couple seem to have made a similar mistake - gambling self-rescue on an unknown route rather than backtracking the way they came in.

Pictures grabbed from https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
Highly recommend Tom Mahood's website. Hours of excellent entertaining reading in there.

 

[ducktapeguy]

I keep seeing the death valley germans story being used as a comparison/"reason not to stay with the car". The Germans drove a minivan 2.4 miles down an abandoned road in Anvil Canyon and then another 200 feet down a wash. There was no chance a passing tourist would find them, they were buried far out of sight down a canyon. Their situation was vastly different than a subaru on a mapped park road with a couple flats.

That said, the death valley germans and this couple seem to have made a similar mistake - gambling self-rescue on an unknown route rather than backtracking the way they came in.

Pictures grabbed from https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
Highly recommend Tom Mahood's website. Hours of excellent entertaining reading in there.

View attachment 655339View attachment 655340View attachment 655341

I would say it's a pretty similar comparison. The area that the Germans were found on in probably gets a similar amount of traffic as the area this couple was in, if not more. I have seen a lot more trip reports in the Warm Springs canyon area due to fact it has a cabins and some mines, and is one of the entrances into Striped Butte. Willow Canyon I don't think gets the same amount of traffic because there's really nothing out there. In one of the canyoning trip reports for Willow Canyon, it was mentioned that the register in the canyon hadn't been signed in a year, which is a pretty good indication on how remote it is. If know I was stuck in either of those two locations, I wouldn't be relying on a passing car to find me.

 

[ducktapeguy]

I find it perplexing not being able to get a Subaru out of that road, even with two flats.

Considering they had 2 flats going in, what were there chances of making it back out without getting more flats? I think people overestimate the ability to drive on flat tires. This is what driving on one flat tire looks like after about a mile, driving on the shoulder of a highway, and I wasn't able to go more than a couple miles an hour. I honestly could've walked faster than I was driving, and it would have been a lot less stressful. I wouldn't even consider driving out 20-30 miles on 2 flat tires on a rough road, I'd be better off walking. I highly doubt a Subaru would last more than a few miles on 2 flat tires without burning up the transmission due to the AWD system.

 

[Kmrtnsn]

I keep seeing the death valley germans story being used as a comparison/"reason not to stay with the car". The Germans drove a minivan 2.4 miles down an abandoned road in Anvil Canyon and then another 200 feet down a wash. There was no chance a passing tourist would find them, they were buried far out of sight down a canyon. Their situation was vastly different than a subaru on a mapped park road with a couple flats.

That said, the death valley germans and this couple seem to have made a similar mistake - gambling self-rescue on an unknown route rather than backtracking the way they came in.

Pictures grabbed from https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
Highly recommend Tom Mahood's website. Hours of excellent entertaining reading in there.

View attachment 655339View attachment 655340View attachment 655341

They drove a couple of miles off the road up a wash. There was no indication they were in Death Valley for anyone to search for them there. They also went trucking off south towards China Lake in July instead of the shorter distance back to the Geologist’s Cabin. Their BOLO was distributed through Interpol and the stolen vehicle report done with LAPD. You seeing the information separation problem yet?

 

[Louisd75]

I would say it's a pretty similar comparison. The area that the Germans were found on in probably gets a similar amount of traffic as the area this couple was in, if not more. I have seen a lot more trip reports in the Warm Springs canyon area due to fact it has a cabins and some mines, and is one of the entrances into Striped Butte. Willow Canyon I don't think gets the same amount of traffic because there's really nothing out there. In one of the canyoning trip reports for Willow Canyon, it was mentioned that the register in the canyon hadn't been signed in a year, which is a pretty good indication on how remote it is. If know I was stuck in either of those two locations, I wouldn't be relying on a passing car to find me.

I don't agree Nobody was looking for the Germans when their van was found, it was found while a ranger in a helicopter was looking for drug labs. They had left no itinerary and there was no search for them prior to discovery of their van. The hiker's car was found because they were being searched for. Someone they knew reported them as overdue because they didn't check in. This is why you leave an itinerary with check in times with someone that's not along for the ride. It doesn't have to be a down-to-the-minute schedule, but even something simple like "I'm here now, I'm going to be exploring in the area of XYZ over the next three days" is enough to get the ball rolling in the area that you're supposed to be.

 

[Kmrtnsn]

I would say it's a pretty similar comparison. The area that the Germans were found on in probably gets a similar amount of traffic as the area this couple was in, if not more. I have seen a lot more trip reports in the Warm Springs canyon area due to fact it has a cabins and some mines, and is one of the entrances into Striped Butte. Willow Canyon I don't think gets the same amount of traffic because there's really nothing out there. In one of the canyoning trip reports for Willow Canyon, it was mentioned that the register in the canyon hadn't been signed in a year, which is a pretty good indication on how remote it is. If know I was stuck in either of those two locations, I wouldn't be relying on a passing car to find me.

No, where the Germans were ultimately found gets NO traffic at all. There was no road. And back where there was a road it was July.......