Certainly maps on an ipad are better than nothing i guess. All it takes is one slip, trip or fall to destroy an ipad or maybe a good rainstorm. Considering they were not near their vehicle im thinking the ipad isnt really the right tool for the job considering it relies 100% on a battery and your ability not to break it.
Sad End to This Cautionary Tale, As Folks Start to Head Back Out Into the Wilds, Pls Be Careful
- Thread starter AbleGuy
- Start date
I have not much to say other than people from other parts of the world literally have no idea of the distances and number of truly isolated area's in North America, in reference to the Germans. Even many North American's from large urban centers often have no idea how fast cell coverage vanishes.
That coupled with largely poor map reading skills can lead to these unfortunate outcomes.
I ran into a young couple whose jeep had broken down on a hot summer day mid week, on the Koopi pass in BC. That pass travels up the east side of Harrison Lake to Boston Bar. They had no supplies, flip flops and light day time clothing and no map vehicle gps. So literally no idea how far anything was.
They were about 50km (30 miles) out of Boston bar and about 60Km or 40 miles from Harrison Hot springs there a logging camp at about 25 miles toward Harrison.
They had left no info with anyone and would have had along hard walk a gravel FSR, they might have run into someone else but pretty doubtful.
They whined about a lack of cell service in the back end of nowhere, assumptions are what gets us into trouble.
That coupled with largely poor map reading skills can lead to these unfortunate outcomes.
I ran into a young couple whose jeep had broken down on a hot summer day mid week, on the Koopi pass in BC. That pass travels up the east side of Harrison Lake to Boston Bar. They had no supplies, flip flops and light day time clothing and no map vehicle gps. So literally no idea how far anything was.
They were about 50km (30 miles) out of Boston bar and about 60Km or 40 miles from Harrison Hot springs there a logging camp at about 25 miles toward Harrison.
They had left no info with anyone and would have had along hard walk a gravel FSR, they might have run into someone else but pretty doubtful.
They whined about a lack of cell service in the back end of nowhere, assumptions are what gets us into trouble.
BLand Cruiser
Observer
Absolutely. The GPS is just the icing on the cake. It's never my primary map, or even secondary. For that I use real maps.
Lovetheworld
Active member
For me gps maps are the primary source, and even secondary, for a car based travel with two devices having the maps and being able to charge (from engine or solar)
Paper maps are the backup.
Printed maps can be awesome for visiting a specific area, but when making long trips it gets less usable. Because the scale of the map will always be a compromise, switching because country view and a specific area.
Going hiking in a certain area, I would probably prefer paper maps.
But on overland trips for half a year or more it gets annoying.
Paper maps are the backup.
Printed maps can be awesome for visiting a specific area, but when making long trips it gets less usable. Because the scale of the map will always be a compromise, switching because country view and a specific area.
Going hiking in a certain area, I would probably prefer paper maps.
But on overland trips for half a year or more it gets annoying.
charlieaarons
Explorer
While crossing the North Slope coastal plain after crossing the Brooks Range south to north July 1973, we (a 110 lb friend and I) were getting a bit hungry after running out of freeze dried food. We were eating 40 M&Ms a day each plus blueberries off the tundra. I was carrying a Remington 700 30-06 for bear protection.
We saw a ptarmigan and I carefully shot it through the neck at ~30 yards. It really “hit the spot”. Later or next day we saw a yearling caribou. I elected to leave it alone as >95% would have been wasted.
One needs to apply judgment about true emergency vs just being a bit hungry or otherwise discomforted.
Found this thread today, and was hoping for some updated info on this tragedy beyond what was reported by the media in the the first few days. I have nothing new to add to the lessons learned discussions here, but can add some first hand experience/perspectives from my multiple trips to Gold Valley, including Willow Springs.
I've been down in Gold Valley 3-4 times on my dual sport motorcycle, just because it looked like an interesting place to check out on the map. It was a very fun area of two-track roads to ride, which is why I kept returning. In late March, just a few weeks before this happened, I took my wife there in my 4x4 van, along with a friend in a Toyota 4runner.
Having now done it on a motorcycle and a 4x4 van, I can tell you Gold Valley is pretty remote. It is an in-and-out trip so there is no thru traffic passing by on their way to someplace else. I've never seen another vehicle while in there but I can tell by the tracks that there are occasional visitors. Not too rugged for a SUV with decent tires and clearance, but their Subaru was out of its element.
Gold Valley has a trail description in the Death Valley SUV Trails book by Roger Mitchell (2006). I mention this because it calls out Willow Springs as having a must-do half mile hike down the canyon to pools of water pushed to the surface by the bedrock and being the best place in the park to see Desert Bighorn Sheep. I wonder if this was the attraction for them to visit Gold Valley in the first place.
We were hoping to find a worthwhile camp spot in Gold Valley and headed towards Willow Springs since I knew there was a large flat area at the end of the road. We did camp in that area and did the "must-do hike" the next morning. That half mile hike has very little elevation drop and alternates between impenetrable thickets of willows that would fill the canyon from side to side and open areas of rubble and some bedrock. There were faint trails to bypass the willows thickets on the hillsides. Travel was relatively easy but there was no payoff. We didn't find any pools of water at the surface. Yes, there may have been some water in the midst of the willows but we didn't look that hard. At about the half mile mark the canyon walls got markedly steeper and I now had to scramble up a hundred feet and traverse a bit to see beyond that thicket. I could see that the canyon was beginning to drop and there were even steeper slopes and cliffs ahead before the canyon turned west out of my view. To continue on (I didn't) would have required traversing very steep slopes of sometimes loose and often sharp rocks with more and more exposure. Climbing down to the canyon bottom again didn't seem like it would gain you easier passage because further willow thickets would require you to reclimb to regain the altitude you just gave up.
Although hiking 22-25 miles on the known dirt roads back to pavement sounds daunting, it was only 12 miles max out to Greenwater Valley Rd (aka Death Valley Wash Rd) which is a wide, well graded and easy dirt road which does have some traffic each day (speaking from having driven on GWV Rd at least a dozen times). Hiking 12 miles out on Gold Valley Rd would have taken less energy, both physical and mental, and could have been done at night if heat were an issue.
--Joe
P.S. I've been carrying a SPOT, but now an InReach, on my adventures for at least 10 years.
I've been down in Gold Valley 3-4 times on my dual sport motorcycle, just because it looked like an interesting place to check out on the map. It was a very fun area of two-track roads to ride, which is why I kept returning. In late March, just a few weeks before this happened, I took my wife there in my 4x4 van, along with a friend in a Toyota 4runner.
Having now done it on a motorcycle and a 4x4 van, I can tell you Gold Valley is pretty remote. It is an in-and-out trip so there is no thru traffic passing by on their way to someplace else. I've never seen another vehicle while in there but I can tell by the tracks that there are occasional visitors. Not too rugged for a SUV with decent tires and clearance, but their Subaru was out of its element.
Gold Valley has a trail description in the Death Valley SUV Trails book by Roger Mitchell (2006). I mention this because it calls out Willow Springs as having a must-do half mile hike down the canyon to pools of water pushed to the surface by the bedrock and being the best place in the park to see Desert Bighorn Sheep. I wonder if this was the attraction for them to visit Gold Valley in the first place.
We were hoping to find a worthwhile camp spot in Gold Valley and headed towards Willow Springs since I knew there was a large flat area at the end of the road. We did camp in that area and did the "must-do hike" the next morning. That half mile hike has very little elevation drop and alternates between impenetrable thickets of willows that would fill the canyon from side to side and open areas of rubble and some bedrock. There were faint trails to bypass the willows thickets on the hillsides. Travel was relatively easy but there was no payoff. We didn't find any pools of water at the surface. Yes, there may have been some water in the midst of the willows but we didn't look that hard. At about the half mile mark the canyon walls got markedly steeper and I now had to scramble up a hundred feet and traverse a bit to see beyond that thicket. I could see that the canyon was beginning to drop and there were even steeper slopes and cliffs ahead before the canyon turned west out of my view. To continue on (I didn't) would have required traversing very steep slopes of sometimes loose and often sharp rocks with more and more exposure. Climbing down to the canyon bottom again didn't seem like it would gain you easier passage because further willow thickets would require you to reclimb to regain the altitude you just gave up.
Although hiking 22-25 miles on the known dirt roads back to pavement sounds daunting, it was only 12 miles max out to Greenwater Valley Rd (aka Death Valley Wash Rd) which is a wide, well graded and easy dirt road which does have some traffic each day (speaking from having driven on GWV Rd at least a dozen times). Hiking 12 miles out on Gold Valley Rd would have taken less energy, both physical and mental, and could have been done at night if heat were an issue.
--Joe
P.S. I've been carrying a SPOT, but now an InReach, on my adventures for at least 10 years.
One of my brothers died from exposure last year when he was in Utah searching for that Forrest Fenn treasure. But they were out on snowmobiles and got lost. Our Dad never really showed any outwardly visible pain or emotion at the time. It was somewhat odd, thats not to imply he wasnt hurting inside or that he didnt shed a tear in private.
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Superpanga
Active member
I've not (yet) gotten into real trouble in the dirt, but have found myself in trouble on the water a few times. This story and this thread reminded me of one particular time.
My now-wife and I had about 1000 miles of sailing experience,pre-GPS, hand marking charts using a combination of celestial navigation/sun sights and dead reckoning. We'd been in ************ squalls and other surprising nastiness. But one particular day, sailing through New York harbor there was a really devastating squall that popped up and tore us to pieces. Tight quarters, lots of bigger boat traffic and a preposterous wind made making any kind of way difficult.
At one point I looked over to see my very experience sailing future-wife with practically one leg over the side, ready to jump into the tempest and swim for it.
Now the boat was beaten up, but still very much a boat. There is nothing in the rational mind that would make one think they should leave a floating craft for swirling stormy high-traffic waters. But there she was, ready to go. I practically had to lash her to the deck until we got to safety.
I guess my point is that all the quarterbacking in the world can't get us into their heads, and also- know the plan, practice, be prepared as much as you can, but know you might make cascading mistakes based on increasing stressors. We should assume that this played a role here too.
As for us now- InReach with me for all solo trips, one for my son. Paper maps, compasses on trips. Handheld GMRS available for hikes away from basecamp.
My now-wife and I had about 1000 miles of sailing experience,pre-GPS, hand marking charts using a combination of celestial navigation/sun sights and dead reckoning. We'd been in ************ squalls and other surprising nastiness. But one particular day, sailing through New York harbor there was a really devastating squall that popped up and tore us to pieces. Tight quarters, lots of bigger boat traffic and a preposterous wind made making any kind of way difficult.
At one point I looked over to see my very experience sailing future-wife with practically one leg over the side, ready to jump into the tempest and swim for it.
Now the boat was beaten up, but still very much a boat. There is nothing in the rational mind that would make one think they should leave a floating craft for swirling stormy high-traffic waters. But there she was, ready to go. I practically had to lash her to the deck until we got to safety.
I guess my point is that all the quarterbacking in the world can't get us into their heads, and also- know the plan, practice, be prepared as much as you can, but know you might make cascading mistakes based on increasing stressors. We should assume that this played a role here too.
As for us now- InReach with me for all solo trips, one for my son. Paper maps, compasses on trips. Handheld GMRS available for hikes away from basecamp.
gatorgrizz27
Well-known member
Sad story, hopefully we can learn from it. It’s interesting to hear all the SAR people say they should have stayed with the vehicle. I know that is common knowledge if one is lost, rather than wandering around blindly, but they didn’t seem to be. It also assumes that somebody if going to be looking for them soon. If they weren’t expected to be home or in cell range for another 3-4 days, nobody would start until then. They should have had enough food and water if there wasn’t a resupply point. I don’t know that I wouldn’t have done the same thing though. It appears their real mistake might have been trying to climb the more treacherous terrain, and I imagine panic would have set in that they were “almost there.”
It is also a sobering reminder not to have your only hope in the unknown. I’ve been in a situation where we were following a contour line around a mountain in and out of a few ridges. We came to a massive canyon that prevented us from getting to where we wanted. The guy who was most experienced looking at the topo map said that one small corner was cut off. We also dropped our camp one day while hunting to not take it to the top of the mountain, as there was no water up high. Coming back down, he couldn’t find water where he expected it to be and we spent over an hour in the dark bushwhacking looking for him. The same guy was also tempted to take a potential short cut when we missed our turn on a trail and had to backtrack. I told him I wasn’t going to chance it and just turned around, following the guaranteed route. I don’t let him make decisions like that anymore.
This should be enough of a prompting for everyone reading this to pick up a PLB or Inreach. I bought a PLB after two boys from FL disappeared on the water 5 years ago and were never found. If they didn’t die from capsizing their boat at speed or something similar, a $300 device would have saved them.
www.tcpalm.com
I later bought an Inreach due to wanting the two way communication after a friends wife has a seizure and required emergency brain surgery. We regularly elk hunt where we’re without cell signal for 5-7 days, it would be terrible to come out and earn something like that or a critical car accident had happened to your family. I now carry it when I take my 3 year old son off roading on mild terrain for half day trips. We are out of cell range and if I had a heart attack or something similar and was able to hit the SOS button, at least he would be found quickly even if I didn’t survive.
It has nothing to do with being “scared”, I don’t wear a motorcycle helmet because I’m scared, or carry a pistol because I’m scared. I do it to help deal with unexpected situations.
It is also a sobering reminder not to have your only hope in the unknown. I’ve been in a situation where we were following a contour line around a mountain in and out of a few ridges. We came to a massive canyon that prevented us from getting to where we wanted. The guy who was most experienced looking at the topo map said that one small corner was cut off. We also dropped our camp one day while hunting to not take it to the top of the mountain, as there was no water up high. Coming back down, he couldn’t find water where he expected it to be and we spent over an hour in the dark bushwhacking looking for him. The same guy was also tempted to take a potential short cut when we missed our turn on a trail and had to backtrack. I told him I wasn’t going to chance it and just turned around, following the guaranteed route. I don’t let him make decisions like that anymore.
This should be enough of a prompting for everyone reading this to pick up a PLB or Inreach. I bought a PLB after two boys from FL disappeared on the water 5 years ago and were never found. If they didn’t die from capsizing their boat at speed or something similar, a $300 device would have saved them.
Five years since Tequesta teens disappeared: ‘Part of me is missing and always will be’
Tequesta teenagers Austin Stephanos and Perry Cohen went missing five years ago Friday after leaving the Jupiter Inlet in a single-engine boat.
www.tcpalm.com
I later bought an Inreach due to wanting the two way communication after a friends wife has a seizure and required emergency brain surgery. We regularly elk hunt where we’re without cell signal for 5-7 days, it would be terrible to come out and earn something like that or a critical car accident had happened to your family. I now carry it when I take my 3 year old son off roading on mild terrain for half day trips. We are out of cell range and if I had a heart attack or something similar and was able to hit the SOS button, at least he would be found quickly even if I didn’t survive.
It has nothing to do with being “scared”, I don’t wear a motorcycle helmet because I’m scared, or carry a pistol because I’m scared. I do it to help deal with unexpected situations.
echo7tango
Road tripping, overlanding
A tragic event for the couple, and plenty of good information from the people here. I do some remote solo exploring in my Jeep, with my wife, and one clear takeaway is to invest in an InReach or similar device. I do not rely on cell service. We are frequently out of range.
No, it's not shorter. The key takeaway is that it was a route. see below
rruff
Explorer
We don't know what map they had... I suspect it was different than the one you are looking at.