SAS for expedition tacoma?
- Thread starter Winky
- Start date
Dirty Harry
Adventurer
jjwinky said:
Sometimes. I am actually in Rapid City at the moment and the 4Runner is in Reno, but it changes on a regular basis.
If you are going to be in Reno, Rapid, or Albuquerque let me know and I'll make sure to bring the 4Runner.
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
one other consideration...
I know Steve from Sonoran Steel - he's participated in all 5 of my annual DeSoto Mine trail rides.
For what he spent on his SAS'd Runner, you could buy a complete DeMello/Donahoe extended travel kit with Upper A-arms, rear 10 leaf Deavers, 7100 series rear Billy's, front and rear bumper from your choice of builder, a camper shell, a roof top tent, new wheels and tires, a winch and synthetic line, a hi-lift, a camp shower, a cook stove, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
As I recall his total cost ended up well over 8K - it's not cheap.
I know I've got over that in my beater as it sits right now, and it's no longer a viable rig for any sort of extended travel.
Nuther thing about SAS'n a rig - you will get bored doing "normal" trails. I started out with a '87 with a camper shell that would be used as an exploration type truck. That didn't last long...the first flop took care of that.
As you progress into more difficult challenges, the inevitable breakage starts to get very, very old, not to mention very, very expensive. After selling my tow rig and trailer I had to spend a tad under $2400.00 to get the rig streetable again.
I know Steve from Sonoran Steel - he's participated in all 5 of my annual DeSoto Mine trail rides.
For what he spent on his SAS'd Runner, you could buy a complete DeMello/Donahoe extended travel kit with Upper A-arms, rear 10 leaf Deavers, 7100 series rear Billy's, front and rear bumper from your choice of builder, a camper shell, a roof top tent, new wheels and tires, a winch and synthetic line, a hi-lift, a camp shower, a cook stove, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
As I recall his total cost ended up well over 8K - it's not cheap.
I know I've got over that in my beater as it sits right now, and it's no longer a viable rig for any sort of extended travel.
Nuther thing about SAS'n a rig - you will get bored doing "normal" trails. I started out with a '87 with a camper shell that would be used as an exploration type truck. That didn't last long...the first flop took care of that.
As you progress into more difficult challenges, the inevitable breakage starts to get very, very old, not to mention very, very expensive. After selling my tow rig and trailer I had to spend a tad under $2400.00 to get the rig streetable again.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
You can do that, BUT you will have a development curve. The odds of you getting it perfect right out of the box are slim to none. The kits made by various companies have hard core crawling in mind. Not sure how adaptable they're going to be to an Overland type application. By that I mean ride height, damper valving, mfg support, etc.jjwinky said:Wow a big response and fast! I can't shake the idea that you can make a SA taco ride like 80 series or other newer model SA vehicle like a HD Ram. I may be way off base. I'm not thinking of reinventing the wheel just makeing something unique, not everythings has to be the same. I suppose I may be ignorant to the capabilities of an IFS taco.. anyone care to take me out and show me what they can do
Like I said expedition travel is my main focus but sometimes I do like to do technical trails. That sonoran steel link is a great find, I am going to get in touch with him and discuss some ideas.
Thanks for all the replies.. I still have a lot of planning to do to see if I am going to go through with this or just scrap it.
Josh
You'll be out there a bit from their experience. Whether they can adapt or not I've no idea. Usually when you're doing something like this you have to be the expert on what the goal is, and defer to their expertise on the various processes to get there.
Winky
Adventurer
I appreciate all the replies. Right now I have sent an email to many of the kit manufactors looking for thier input. Like I've said I am still just planning. I still have my 06 rubi sitting outside. Anyone looking to buy one?? The 'learning curve' might be a lot of fun mixed in with a lot of headaches. In the end I hope to have a unique rig capable of travel cross country and tackling difficult trails on the weekend with my jeep buddies. Que sera, Sera.
Josh
The 'learning curve' might be a lot of fun mixed in with a lot of headaches. In the end I hope to have a unique rig capable of travel cross country and tackling difficult trails on the weekend with my jeep buddies. Que sera, Sera.Josh
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
If the question is "can" you do it, the answer is "yes." With enough money and effort, anything is possible. But for an expedition rig I would wonder whether the benefits of the SAS would outweigh the disadvantages of doing the conversion (which would not only be cost, but also the fact that you'd have to do a lot of fabricating, and that if one of those fabricated/jury rigged parts broke in the field, you'd have to try and make another one.)
I think some younger 4 wheelers, who grew up in the age of IFS, obsess a little too much about the supposed awesome-ness of SAS. My first 4 4wd vehicles were all SAS with leaf springs because back then that was all they had (FWIW: 1957 IHC Travelall, 1968 IHC Travelall, 1971 Chevy Blazer and 1985 Toyota PU.) One common thing about all of them was that they were horrible to drive on washboard roads, which we have a lot of in CO. When I got my first IFS 4wd vehicle (1990 Mistubishi Montero) I was amazed that I could finally run washboarded-dirt roads at 40mph without having to worry about losing control of the vehicle and/or vibrating off the side of the road.
Even the mighty HMMWV (the real one, not the silly H2 or H3) has 4-wheel independent suspension and those things can go almost anywhere.
I can understand why extreme rock-crawlers like SAS front and rear, just for the articulation, but personally I wouldn't want to put up with all the negatives associated with it just to get some more flex. You know, there's a reason why those awesome rock-buggies are usually seen riding in trailers along I-70 and not being driven!
However, if you really want to go the SAS route on a Tacoma, there is a whole forum over at the TTORA.org web site dedicated to that very subject.
I think some younger 4 wheelers, who grew up in the age of IFS, obsess a little too much about the supposed awesome-ness of SAS. My first 4 4wd vehicles were all SAS with leaf springs because back then that was all they had (FWIW: 1957 IHC Travelall, 1968 IHC Travelall, 1971 Chevy Blazer and 1985 Toyota PU.) One common thing about all of them was that they were horrible to drive on washboard roads, which we have a lot of in CO. When I got my first IFS 4wd vehicle (1990 Mistubishi Montero) I was amazed that I could finally run washboarded-dirt roads at 40mph without having to worry about losing control of the vehicle and/or vibrating off the side of the road.
Even the mighty HMMWV (the real one, not the silly H2 or H3) has 4-wheel independent suspension and those things can go almost anywhere.
I can understand why extreme rock-crawlers like SAS front and rear, just for the articulation, but personally I wouldn't want to put up with all the negatives associated with it just to get some more flex. You know, there's a reason why those awesome rock-buggies are usually seen riding in trailers along I-70 and not being driven!
However, if you really want to go the SAS route on a Tacoma, there is a whole forum over at the TTORA.org web site dedicated to that very subject.
toyrunner95
Explorer
you can solid axle swap anything as long as you have a couple beers and a saws all.
but honestly you dont absolutly need an sas for expedition camping work. i have tossed around the idea of swapping the ifs on a newer toyota alot of times but i keep comming to the conclusion that i dont really NEED to. the trails i have been on suggest that a solid axel is better, however; with that said they are just that. trails, not roads that lead to far off places. they are a short cut between a couple logging roads.
on the other hand there are many belifits, less moving parts, easy repairs, etc. and that i agree with, SO if you plan on doing a solid axle swap i believe that you would want a dana 44 or bigger with a left drive for 96 and newer models, or a toyota 8" for 95 and older models. if you get an 05 or newer it could take alot of work because so far i have only seen two, one personal and domello off road did one but they used a curry 9" in the front which is pretty stout.
personally if i was going to solid axle swap a truck i would do a 94-97 toyota, that later models espicaly because its pretty streight forward and dana 44s are a dime a dozen, but i would swap the rear as well just for symetry. for a 94 and 95 i would do it with 8" axles.
now then if you want an exedition truck, keep the ride height down, and get skid plates. this will keep the stability of the rig on off cambers but still allow you to go some awsome places, make sure the suspension is flexy, its better to have something that flexes well rather than some of these guys that compensate for unmentionables with 17 or 20 inch lifts of their fords (i mean come on guys, your not fooling anyone.) if your tires touch the ground, you have better traction, where as ifs, as demonstrated by the hummer, 4runner, and any other ifs vehicle, front tires like to lift, and quite easily.
those are my 2 cents.
but honestly you dont absolutly need an sas for expedition camping work. i have tossed around the idea of swapping the ifs on a newer toyota alot of times but i keep comming to the conclusion that i dont really NEED to. the trails i have been on suggest that a solid axel is better, however; with that said they are just that. trails, not roads that lead to far off places. they are a short cut between a couple logging roads.
on the other hand there are many belifits, less moving parts, easy repairs, etc. and that i agree with, SO if you plan on doing a solid axle swap i believe that you would want a dana 44 or bigger with a left drive for 96 and newer models, or a toyota 8" for 95 and older models. if you get an 05 or newer it could take alot of work because so far i have only seen two, one personal and domello off road did one but they used a curry 9" in the front which is pretty stout.
personally if i was going to solid axle swap a truck i would do a 94-97 toyota, that later models espicaly because its pretty streight forward and dana 44s are a dime a dozen, but i would swap the rear as well just for symetry. for a 94 and 95 i would do it with 8" axles.
now then if you want an exedition truck, keep the ride height down, and get skid plates. this will keep the stability of the rig on off cambers but still allow you to go some awsome places, make sure the suspension is flexy, its better to have something that flexes well rather than some of these guys that compensate for unmentionables with 17 or 20 inch lifts of their fords (i mean come on guys, your not fooling anyone.) if your tires touch the ground, you have better traction, where as ifs, as demonstrated by the hummer, 4runner, and any other ifs vehicle, front tires like to lift, and quite easily.
those are my 2 cents.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Photos of truck from Yotatech showing IFS can flex pretty respectably. All but one of these trucks are running stock arms, although most of them do have ball joint spacers. One of them is running a Total Chaos suspension w/ 12" of wheel travel, that should pretty easy to spot.
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
Anyone ripping apart a Taco for an SAS, please contact me, i am in need of some IFS Parts for a friend!
Thanks
Thanks
Winky
Adventurer
UPDATE:
I have gotten a lot of interesting replies from builders. Of course they are all convinced they are the only ones that could build it but I am getting some great ideas. I still don't know if I am going to go this route.. I don't even have the truck yet. When I leave the oilfields in the next couple of days I will be able to plan it better... I have a new moto though.. maybe even the name for this hypothetical build up- More Money Then Brains.
Cheers
Josh
I have gotten a lot of interesting replies from builders. Of course they are all convinced they are the only ones that could build it but I am getting some great ideas. I still don't know if I am going to go this route.. I don't even have the truck yet. When I leave the oilfields in the next couple of days I will be able to plan it better... I have a new moto though.. maybe even the name for this hypothetical build up- More Money Then Brains.
Cheers
Josh
viter
Adventurer
Boston Mangler said:
make sure to check http://www.ttora.com if you ahven't yet, ifs parts from sas rigs come up quite often
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
viter said:
Thanks
Been checking there very often with no luck finding anything LOCAL
Thanks though
viter
Adventurer
talking about sas, in terms of advantage of extra travel of a sas, technically you could get ~14" out of IFS with one of the long travel kits made for taco by total chaos or camburg and still retain 4wd, but it will be costly ~$3000.
also, why not get a 4dr jeep rubicon = more space than 2dr jeep and still solid axles, plus everything is familiar?
also, why not get a 4dr jeep rubicon = more space than 2dr jeep and still solid axles, plus everything is familiar?
detailbarn
Adventurer
this was an interesting post to read and I have insight on both ends of the coin. I just got rid of my 2001 Double Cab Tacoma , traded for a 2006 Wrangler Unlimited but ultimately I'm replacing it with a Jeep Comanche and Jeep Cherokee. My reason for this change was mostly wanting solid axle vehicles, it's not that the Tacoma was a bad truck or that the IFS was bad but it had it's issues such as being able to work on it. I do all my own maintenance and most mods as well, I personally found that the IFS was not easy to work on and I couldn't do simple things like change wheel bearings , when they needed to be replaced it cost me just shy of $1000 plus parts and that was not at the dealer , dealers cost was closer to $2000. Yes just for front wheel bearings. So in the end it was ease of working on the solid axle and the availability of tougher components that drew me to the solid axle.