School me on the subject of dc dc charging at 12v system.

ITTOG

Well-known member
I don't know about actual fuel usage comparisons but idling a vehicle engine is usually very inefficient and hard on the engine. Things have improved over time but definitely have not eliminated the negative impact of idling. You can have problems with more unburnt fuel affecting the catalytic converter, more coking on valves, more engine wear due to less oil pressure, etc. Usually cop car engines are built to address these issues but consumer vehicles are not.
 

eugene

Explorer
I don't know about actual fuel usage comparisons but idling a vehicle engine is usually very inefficient and hard on the engine. Things have improved over time but definitely have not eliminated the negative impact of idling. You can have problems with more unburnt fuel affecting the catalytic converter, more coking on valves, more engine wear due to less oil pressure, etc. Usually cop car engines are built to address these issues but consumer vehicles are not.
Truck engines are designed to be able to be idled, its not hard on them.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I'm having trouble determining if the alternator would wear out sooner (probably) and if so, how much. In other words how much of its lifespan is related to just spinning vs generating power?
What kills alternators is heat.

I don't know if a 2016 Tundra has a smart alternator but regardless you don't need to worry using even 100% of your capacity as long as you keep it cool. The advantage about a smart alternator is that the ECU will be more likely to actively protect from overload, perhaps idle up automatically under heavy electrical load rather than needing a hand throttle.

You touched on an important point. Your alternator is wearing out mechanically even at light load from just spinning and the electronics are aging from heat of the engine bay regardless. So you might as well use the energy, the alternator is going to eventually wear out just from being used.

Toyota and Denso did assume things, such as you'd be moving. Moving air cools much better than still air.

And that's the key, you could be wearing an alternator faster using 50% at idle than you do 100% on the highway due to the heat building up.

I'd suggest along with doing the electrical calculations you check how hot the alternator actually gets when you use it. Could be a non-contact heat gun, thermocouples, even just using the back if your hand. As long as your utilization doesn't cause excessively high temperatures you should be fine. And you might be able to mitigate heat by idling with the hood up, using a fan to force cooling. But these are things you should check even if you go to a larger capacity alternator.

So your question is nuanced. No, an alternator isn't wearing out any faster if you use a DC-DC (or any load) even at 100% if the conditions more-or-less match what the manufacturer expected. OTOH, yes, you might be increasing aging if you are outside those parameters.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Chatgpt agrees. Electrical load has a negligible effect on the wear of brushes or any other components of an alternator, so long as temperature is within spec.
You bring up brushes, which is a good example. They are wearing out faster running over the rings than any electrical process could. Technically speaking all electronics can wear (so to speak) eventually at an atomic level but what is much, much more common is environmental damage (either directly or creating a cascading electrical failure) from heat, moisture, vibration, impacts, etc.

The roundness tolerance on the ring manufacturing, which fatigues the springs and causes non-uniform brush wear is worse than asking them to carry high current. So, yup, alternators are killed by heat, fine dust, water submersion.

Now that said, electrically there are limits to the size of the brushes, slip rings, winding wire and diodes. So I am making an important presumption that at rated current the designers anticipated how to get the heat out. But as long as you keep temp/current/voltage at or under 100% of the rating electronics aren't wearing significantly faster than they might at 10% or 50%.

Plus you have to obey physics. So adding a computer fan isn't going to get you tens of amps necessarily. Consider how much air is moved traveling down a highway and mimicking this could require a fan that consumes a non-trivial amount of the extra power you generate.

Let's say you find your 170A alternator is getting pretty toasty at 60A idling. Remembering, too, that regardless of heat an alternator output is dependent on RPM, so even ideally cooled it won't necessarily achieve full output until you get it turning a higher RPM anyway.

Just for the sake of discussion you find asking it to give you 60A is where the case (or if you can find the actual winding or rectifier or regulator temps) hits the specification limit. You find that moving the equivalent of 25 MPH air over it allows 80A safely but to do that electrically takes a fan that consumes 10A/120W. You're only getting a net of 10 amps more, the loop has to close electrically and thermodynamically. In the case of modern cars the radiator fan motor turning on could consume a lot of your alternator's power at idle, for example.

BTW, that brings up another thought. Often the OEM under drives alternators. Alternators like to turn around 2000 RPM and faster and so to get this they will use a ratio to the crank, say that's 3:1. At 700 RPM idle the alternator is turning 2100 RPM. But the problem is the upper limit. At redline of 6000 RPM you're now asking the alternator to turn 18,000 RPM. This might limit the bearings and generally is tough mechanically. But if you can cap your redline you can sometimes justify a slight ratio change, 3.5:1 or even 4:1, to spin the alternator faster. This helps not only bring up the current at the low end but since most alternators have a built-in fan it helps with cooling, too. But you really have to watch redline, you definitely do not want bearings seizing when you try to merge in traffic trying to not get flattened by a cement truck.
 

rruff

Explorer
Add up all the costs. Then consider is this worth it for 20 amps say four hours a week?
If you have the 6.6L GM gas, then you probably have 170A, and can run 80A, and that would charge around half of your capacity. How much in solar panels do you have and what are you using electricity for?
 

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