Seitz Windows 101: Pros, Cons and their Operation

[mhiscox]

I would say a negative point is how far they protrude from the body, asking to be ripped off on tight vegetation perhaps!?

Or at least scratched up a whole bunch . . trail pinstripping on your windows as well as your body.

Incidentally, this reminded me of another weakness I missed, which is that you can't drive down the freeway with the awning windows open, like you could if they were sliders. Doesn't matter at a lot when you only have front seat passengers, but I can see where people seated in the back might want to have windows open.

Nice fixes for the bugs. I agree with you that there are ways to get around the problem when it occurs . . . assuming you planned ahead.

 

[AzAv8r]

I like the idea of Seitz windows, but the available data is lacking.

Do the windows truly contain a vacuum? That would mean a 15"x30" window would have over three tons pressure at sea level trying to collapse it. The convex/concave characteristic described would help accommodate pressure, but I think the plastic would still need to be mighty thick to avoid collapse at sea level with a full vacuum internal. Perhaps they are sealed to some intermediate pressure? (say 10 psi, which would about split the difference between sea level and 18000 ft)

Are they specified for a maximum/minimum altitude/barometric pressure?

How much do they change dimensionally with altitude changes?

If they are not truly sealed, how is moisture accomodated with air ingress/egress due to pressure/altitude changes?

Does the acrylic contain UV inhibitors? Does it filter UV? What is the transmittal?

Thx,
Jon

 

[mhiscox]

Those are damn fine questions, Jon, but in this country, we're lucky to even know the size options. Dometic, the US distributor, has proven notoriously unhelpful and inefficient, and we've had trouble even buying Any units from them. One Portal member bought a palette of Chinese equivalents, while the last person I advised on the topic had such a run-around that he ordered his from a dealer in the UK.

So don't sweat the details too much until you have a plan to get some, and if you find a workable supplier, be sure to let us know!

 

[bee]

No double pane production window has a vacuum pulled between the panes house or RV. At best an inert gas is used to fill the void. Then with glass windows at least, wait a few years and the inert gas leaks out and is replaced with good old atmosphere.

There is an alternative to overpriced double pane windows. Elkhart Indiana is the RV capital of the united states. There are at least 5 RV surplus stores with various windows for sale. Sometimes they even post up on ebay, but most don't like the hassle of shipping glass. To give you an idea I picked up 2 huge double pane windows 49"x31" $150 each not counting shipping. I also found a Seitz roof hatch for $150 as well. Honestly I am second guessing seitz, there are multiple horror stories of the hatches letting loose on the highway, and I can just imagine the hassle for replacement parts.

Elkhart area also has Amish and rv plant tours if you are thinking of taking a road trip.

edit* if you are searching ebay, in addition to "double pane", the other key word to try is "insulated"

 

[mhiscox]

There is an alternative to overpriced double pane windows.

Thanks for the suggestion on the lower-priced options, but it's also important to remind builders that, if you putting the windows into a van or other vehicle that has even a modest curve to its sidewalls, normal slider windows won't work. This restricts you to the small openings of horizontal t-slider windows or plasticky (and hence slightly bendable) awning windows like the Seitz products.

 

[Iain_U1250]

Great write up Mike. I did a fair amount of research before going with the Seitz as well.

I have three big Seitz/Dometic window in my Unimog but since it is not on the road yet I can't say anything other than they are very easy to install.

I have to have some custom mouldings around the windows, as the wall on my camper are 80mm thick. They are currently being made and I'll post a few photos on my build thread when they are ready.

I have heard report from fellow builders especially those that live or travel in very cold (-30 deg C) that have a few problems with condensation and that triple glazed window like the Russian builders use are better, but I think they are good enough at this stage.

One idea I have to help with the scratching and is to fit a strip of heavy canvas to the outside which can be zipped open to allow the window to open. Like on the sketch below. I'll get my wife to make a set, but a good tent repairer/canvas maker should be able to make up something similar. The sail track will help with the wind and limit billowing to stop them from catching on trees. The tent clips are those rotating clips you find in tents and tonneau covers for pickup beds. I would only fit them when heading off-road, not when driving down the freeway so high speed would not be that important. I need a ladder on my truck to fit them and unzip them, but I'll have a telescopic one for other uses anyway.



Here is a link to the how to change over the roller blind to fine mesh - a bit tricky but do-able. There was also a link to how to change the side guides to more insect proof material, but I can't find it at the moment.

http://www.dreampod.net/boroma/dometic_windows.html

 

[southpier]

Iain, great website

 

[mhiscox]

Thanks for adding more to this thread, Iain, and thanks for the web link, too.

Right at the moment, I'd trade all of the scratching for a reliable way to order them in the United States. RUF gave up supplying them because it never went well and the last person I tried to help ended up ordering his from an RV dealer in the UK.

So if anyone comes across a way to get these windows in the U.S. by less heroic means, or even finds a way to get single units of the Chinese knockoffs one of our builders ended up using, please let all of us know. (And, as I've said before, if someone with shipping skills living in a place where these windows are common RV store fodder needs a modest business, we're kinda desperate.)

 

[bee]

Don't quote me but I am pretty sure arctic fox offers seitz windows as an option on their truck campers. They might be able to sell you replacement windows.

 

[mhiscox]

Don't quote me but I am pretty sure arctic fox offers seitz windows as an option on their truck campers. They might be able to sell you replacement windows.

Yep, Seitz windows have gotten semi-common in RVs lately, and Dometic seems to do OK selling to manufacturers. So maybe a good strategy is to determine what RV has windows that are tolerably the size you want, and then just go through the replacement parts reordering process as if you busted the windows in your Arctic Fox/Lance/T@b/whatever and need new ones.

Not nearly so good as picking your sizes off a list of dozens of alternative, but it could work and give you better odds that the windows you get will be arrive undamaged and be the size you expected. But you'd still think that Little Guy, Northwood, or some other manufacturer getting that's getting dozens of windows from Dometic anyway could make some profit by opening a sideline "Seitz Store" selling to civilians. (Though that would admittedly violate the "stick to the knitting" business rule.)

 

[Iain_U1250]

SEtiz windows are available from most RV stores here in Australia, very common, problem is shipping anything out of Australia is very expensive.

One thing about the Seitz roof hatches - I bought some, but took them back as the are too flimsy - would not take much of a tree to rip the whole thing off , they also don't seal properly. I also bought some Fiamma hatches, a bit better but after dropping one from a desk and having it crack, I decided to go with a deck hatch from a yacht - Vetus offshore range rated to two metres below water level, aluminium frame, 10mm acrylic and can be left open a crack when driving if necessary. I need to make some frames and bug screens for them though, as despite having them in their catalogue, they have yet to make a decent bug screen, seem like boating people just accept the bugs will bite them.

 

[mhiscox]

One thing about the Seitz roof hatches - I bought some, but took them back as the are too flimsy.

I agree. It's fantastic to have the big hatch, but it is not a very sturdy thing. And because it can flex pretty easily, it's hard to keep everything sealed. If I had it to do over again, I might use the hatch on a rigid and dead flat surface like the roof of my old Mog cabin. I'd think long and hard, though, before using one again on something flexy and with a little curve like my Sprinter.

 

[JCTex]

So, if I want them "anyway", where would you suggest I order them, UK, GY, AU?

I want 3 for sides of my Econoline build and 4 for the side and rear doors.

I've seen and studied these since before Dometic bought the competition and really want them, now that I actually have a vehicle to build.

I'll be a guinnea pig. Where do you recommend?

JC

 

[mhiscox]

Best option by far if it works: Check with Creative Mobile Interiors in Grove City, Ohio at 886/204-8264. They may be willing to help you out. It's not their business, but they order the Dometic windows for their conversions and may be willing to include your windows in their order.

You can also order from Eurocampers (http://www.eurocampers.com/), a company that can supply you with most camper components that are readily available in Europe. It's not cheap and it takes some time due to shipping, but it is a possibility. Eurocampers got replacement glazing for a cracked Seitz window I had on my old Sprinter.

The last person I discussed the windows with ended up getting them from a regular caravan parts supplier in the UK. Shipping costs were egregious, but he got the windows and they all arrived safely and in the correct size.

Another ExPo member needed three windows, but found it worthwhile to order the ten window minimum from a supplier in China and then sell the others off on eBay. The thread is here:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/86745.

I've thought about going this way, too, though the more common minimum order now appears to be 20 units, and since I just need a couple, that'd be a problem. In any event, though, you can go to http://www.alibaba.com/ and do a search for "RV acrylic windows" and you'll find lots of suppliers. You'll have to look a bit to find the few places that still have 10 unit minimums as opposed to 20.

It's interesting to know that while there are a dozen suppliers, all the windows seem to be made by the Anhui Maygood RV Accessories Company of Hefei, Anhui, China. In fact, it looks like you can order (20 unit minimum) directly from the factory:

http://meygood.en.alibaba.com/produ...m_frame_double_acrylic_hinge_side_window.html

If you end up ordering from China and need seven windows of the ten, I'd buy three from you to fill out the order. Actually, it surprises me that, given the troubles with Dometic, no one has stepped in to import these for resale; seems like kind of an easy business to run.

In exchange for all of this information, you have to tell us what you decide to do and how it turns out.

 

[Haf-E]

I can vouch for the chinese made windows - I bought a couple of the ones from the guy who ordered a shipment of 10 (Charles) and they are identical to the European supplied windows from what I can tell... usually I am hesitant about buying chinese made product - but these are nice and the pricing/shipping is so much better...