Shachagra- Family of 5 traveles Europe and Turkey, International 7500
- Thread starter shachagra
- Start date
Shell/Pass Through
The shell is actually pretty simple. two 1/4 inch marine grade sheets of plywood sandwiching a 2 inch sheet of insulation- the blue stuff you can buy at Loews. The cross section drawing shows how the the shell is a box, stiffened by interior arches (across) and a roof mounted beam (lengthwise) The roof beam is very strong, stiffened with fiberglass matt and you can see it on high shots of the truck. I walk on it to clean the solar panels.
The cabinets are glassed in to become part of the structure as well. This is a very strong, but still slightly flexible structure- I've sailed boats built the same way through gales and the punishment they took is more than any road in Turkey is going to throw at us.
We used 2" plywood "studs" to erect the walls, but they don't add much to the strength, that is all in the plywood. I had planned to build the walls as SIPs (Structural Insulating Panels) on the floor in the garage and then erect them complete, just like they do in SIPs houses, and this would have saved us weeks, maybe up to 3 weeks I think, but I just wasn't confident enough in the layout. The way we did it allowed me to make changes to window position. If I were to do it over I'd go with prebuilt panels, no doubt. The rounded exterior tops to the wall is just a cap epoxied on the roof and glassed over. This created a nice clean look and hid the solar panels. I was concerned about the panels being stolen if they were visible from the ground. This also insets the panels and streamlines the whole roof. There is 1.5" of space below the panels to allow cooling air to be pumped under them.
The passthrough was as simple as I could make it. I glued up 6 1" sheets of neoprene foam, just like a wet suit, and just crushed it between the cab and structure. In the youtube video you can see a split second of us pulling the structure forward once it was on the truck. This has worked very well with the disadvantage that it takes away most ability of the cab to move independent of the cabin.
I'm sure I've glossed over much but thats why forums are so handy, you can ask for clarification.
The shell is actually pretty simple. two 1/4 inch marine grade sheets of plywood sandwiching a 2 inch sheet of insulation- the blue stuff you can buy at Loews. The cross section drawing shows how the the shell is a box, stiffened by interior arches (across) and a roof mounted beam (lengthwise) The roof beam is very strong, stiffened with fiberglass matt and you can see it on high shots of the truck. I walk on it to clean the solar panels.
The cabinets are glassed in to become part of the structure as well. This is a very strong, but still slightly flexible structure- I've sailed boats built the same way through gales and the punishment they took is more than any road in Turkey is going to throw at us.
We used 2" plywood "studs" to erect the walls, but they don't add much to the strength, that is all in the plywood. I had planned to build the walls as SIPs (Structural Insulating Panels) on the floor in the garage and then erect them complete, just like they do in SIPs houses, and this would have saved us weeks, maybe up to 3 weeks I think, but I just wasn't confident enough in the layout. The way we did it allowed me to make changes to window position. If I were to do it over I'd go with prebuilt panels, no doubt. The rounded exterior tops to the wall is just a cap epoxied on the roof and glassed over. This created a nice clean look and hid the solar panels. I was concerned about the panels being stolen if they were visible from the ground. This also insets the panels and streamlines the whole roof. There is 1.5" of space below the panels to allow cooling air to be pumped under them.
The passthrough was as simple as I could make it. I glued up 6 1" sheets of neoprene foam, just like a wet suit, and just crushed it between the cab and structure. In the youtube video you can see a split second of us pulling the structure forward once it was on the truck. This has worked very well with the disadvantage that it takes away most ability of the cab to move independent of the cabin.
I'm sure I've glossed over much but thats why forums are so handy, you can ask for clarification.
Attachments
Doug,
Thanks very (very) much for the photos and more of your building sequence and methods. It's a wealth of information for me and is really helping the last details on my own project.
Please keep 'em coming if you have the time, energy, and desire.
Oh...and X3 on your "why we got it done so fast" theory; that's a riot.
Les
Thanks very (very) much for the photos and more of your building sequence and methods. It's a wealth of information for me and is really helping the last details on my own project.
Please keep 'em coming if you have the time, energy, and desire.
Oh...and X3 on your "why we got it done so fast" theory; that's a riot.
Les
I'd like to ask some questions.
1) What is the wheelbase on your truck (I think that's measured to the center of the pair of tandems?)?
2) As I understand it from the video with Charles, Shachagra has a "basement" where the water tanks, water pump, water heater, batteries, and such live? What is the depth of that basement? [I assume the floor of the basement rests on the top of the frame rails?]
3) You said you started with a couple of 55 gallon drums of epoxy. Did you end up using all of it? And what was the mix ratio (2:1, 5:1, etc)?
4) Do you know what the weight of the Shachagra "shell" (camper part) was when it was fitted to the truck?
5) With regard to your windows: What brand are they? Did you choose single or dual pane?
6) I see where you had the bulkhead mounted (Dickinson Newport?) heater mounted in the lounge area but you also have a boiler. Was the boiler used for hydronic heat in the camper by using small radiators throughout?
7) Is the sleeping position for the cabover bed oriented lengthwise or athwartships?
I'll stop there!
I don't want to wear out my welcome.
Thanks!
Les
1) What is the wheelbase on your truck (I think that's measured to the center of the pair of tandems?)?
2) As I understand it from the video with Charles, Shachagra has a "basement" where the water tanks, water pump, water heater, batteries, and such live? What is the depth of that basement? [I assume the floor of the basement rests on the top of the frame rails?]
3) You said you started with a couple of 55 gallon drums of epoxy. Did you end up using all of it? And what was the mix ratio (2:1, 5:1, etc)?
4) Do you know what the weight of the Shachagra "shell" (camper part) was when it was fitted to the truck?
5) With regard to your windows: What brand are they? Did you choose single or dual pane?
6) I see where you had the bulkhead mounted (Dickinson Newport?) heater mounted in the lounge area but you also have a boiler. Was the boiler used for hydronic heat in the camper by using small radiators throughout?
7) Is the sleeping position for the cabover bed oriented lengthwise or athwartships?
I'll stop there!
I don't want to wear out my welcome.Thanks!
Les
Answers
Keep the questions coming- it forces me to organize my files, pictures and thoughts while the build and trip are still fresh in my mind and hard drive.
1. 270" wheelbase, yes to the center of the rear axles. It had to be long enough to allow the girls staterooms to drop down in front of the rear wheels, but as short as I could otherwise make it.
2. The basement is 30", from the floor resting on the rails to to the "main deck."
3. The epoxy came in a 55 gal drum, the hardener came in a 27.5 gallon container (2:1 mixture ratio. I used all but 3 gallons of resin and 1.5 gal of hardener. I got a great deal on all my MAS Epoxies and mixing pots etc from Jamestown Distributers. For big jobs they assign a dedicated rep that can hunt down good deals. Saved me 50% on the epoxies.
4. I never weighed the shell empty, but I can estimate that it is about 6500 pounds. I calculated weight and balance (center of gravity and axle loading) on a spreadsheet -part of it attached here. In addition to axle loading I calculated parts cost, totals, where I purchased and status of the order. It was a very useful spreadsheet for me.
5. The windows are dual pane "Motion Windows" and are worth every penny. It took lots of pennies too. You shut the last window when closing her up and all the noise of the outside world ceases. Series 1800.
6. I used an odd heating arrangement. I didn't want to run the diesel boiler full time and wanted a radiant heat so I insulated the 320 gal water tanks with 4" of insulation and ran a heater coil directly into the water tank below our feet. It took only a short time for the boiler to raise the water temp enough to keep the cabin cozy throughout the night. Even with the tanks only partially full it provides a lot of mass storage for heat. Everything is right there under the floor. To be honest, the Dickinson works so well, uses so little fuel and is so cozy that we just used it and the boiler was used just to heat water and the hot tub.
7. Sleeping position in the "suite." I designed it for lengthwise sleeping to avoid having to crawl over each other to get into bed. See the drawing. Just before we hit the road it became evident that the children were living in the lap of luxury with plenty of storage space and the wife and I didn't have enough. Also the master bed was huge- much bigger than a King. I put two closets in the bed space furthest aft. The bed is still bigger than a King! There were times on the trip when I would find all five of us up there.
The athwartship sleeping wasn't bad, but I would still prefer the original design if I could find a better place to put some closets near the toilet/bath area.
Keep the questions coming- it forces me to organize my files, pictures and thoughts while the build and trip are still fresh in my mind and hard drive.
1. 270" wheelbase, yes to the center of the rear axles. It had to be long enough to allow the girls staterooms to drop down in front of the rear wheels, but as short as I could otherwise make it.
2. The basement is 30", from the floor resting on the rails to to the "main deck."
3. The epoxy came in a 55 gal drum, the hardener came in a 27.5 gallon container (2:1 mixture ratio. I used all but 3 gallons of resin and 1.5 gal of hardener. I got a great deal on all my MAS Epoxies and mixing pots etc from Jamestown Distributers. For big jobs they assign a dedicated rep that can hunt down good deals. Saved me 50% on the epoxies.
4. I never weighed the shell empty, but I can estimate that it is about 6500 pounds. I calculated weight and balance (center of gravity and axle loading) on a spreadsheet -part of it attached here. In addition to axle loading I calculated parts cost, totals, where I purchased and status of the order. It was a very useful spreadsheet for me.
5. The windows are dual pane "Motion Windows" and are worth every penny. It took lots of pennies too. You shut the last window when closing her up and all the noise of the outside world ceases. Series 1800.
6. I used an odd heating arrangement. I didn't want to run the diesel boiler full time and wanted a radiant heat so I insulated the 320 gal water tanks with 4" of insulation and ran a heater coil directly into the water tank below our feet. It took only a short time for the boiler to raise the water temp enough to keep the cabin cozy throughout the night. Even with the tanks only partially full it provides a lot of mass storage for heat. Everything is right there under the floor. To be honest, the Dickinson works so well, uses so little fuel and is so cozy that we just used it and the boiler was used just to heat water and the hot tub.
7. Sleeping position in the "suite." I designed it for lengthwise sleeping to avoid having to crawl over each other to get into bed. See the drawing. Just before we hit the road it became evident that the children were living in the lap of luxury with plenty of storage space and the wife and I didn't have enough. Also the master bed was huge- much bigger than a King. I put two closets in the bed space furthest aft. The bed is still bigger than a King! There were times on the trip when I would find all five of us up there.
The athwartship sleeping wasn't bad, but I would still prefer the original design if I could find a better place to put some closets near the toilet/bath area.
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Last edited:
More Pictures
I read over my posts and realize a picture is worth 1000 words.
Pictures are of the water tanks and how they were insulated below the main deck. The tanks are wood epoxy and glass, like the rest of the truck- I just had to put 5 coats of epoxy to the interior (well my son had to.)
A picture of the completed truck at a small graveyard in Northern England where we were searching for some ancestors. The reason for all the work.
I read over my posts and realize a picture is worth 1000 words.
Pictures are of the water tanks and how they were insulated below the main deck. The tanks are wood epoxy and glass, like the rest of the truck- I just had to put 5 coats of epoxy to the interior (well my son had to.)
A picture of the completed truck at a small graveyard in Northern England where we were searching for some ancestors. The reason for all the work.
Attachments
Thanks for all the information Doug! :clapsmile
Good choice on windows! I'm biased since that's where we get the windows for the boats we manufacture.
So...if I follow the paragraph about the sleeping arrangements in the cabover bed...you had in mind that you'd lay lengthwise but then when you added the storage cabinets at the aft end of the bed you changed it to sleeping athwartship? Do I have that right? And do I understand that you enter and exit the bed between the aft mounted storage cabinets?
Thanks too for the weight estimate.
One further question...what is the height to the top of the frame rails on your truck?
Les
Good choice on windows! I'm biased since that's where we get the windows for the boats we manufacture.
So...if I follow the paragraph about the sleeping arrangements in the cabover bed...you had in mind that you'd lay lengthwise but then when you added the storage cabinets at the aft end of the bed you changed it to sleeping athwartship? Do I have that right? And do I understand that you enter and exit the bed between the aft mounted storage cabinets?
Thanks too for the weight estimate.
One further question...what is the height to the top of the frame rails on your truck?
Les
You are correct about the overcab bed. You are standing on the deck between the two cabinets and the bed is about 4 feet off the deck directly over the door to the cab. There is a ladder that slides out of the way when you want access to the cab. It actually not difficult to get into the rack without it though.
I'll have to get back to you on the rail ht, I have it in one of my many notebooks, I'll just go to the truck and measure.
I'll have to get back to you on the rail ht, I have it in one of my many notebooks, I'll just go to the truck and measure.
Thank you for the information Doug.
I did a quick CAD drawing using a profile of an International, it seems you must have a step down (or steps) into the cab of the truck from the camper. A main deck at 30" above the frame rails really puts the floor high up on the back wall of the cab.
I have a design somewhat similar to yours; more in concept than actuality in the sense that it's living quarters with a cabover bed on a medium duty truck but the layouts are entirely different. Early on I thought about building using boat techniques but it seemed like everyone was using welded steel framing (and I don't weld) so I've had some reluctance to move ahead. Seeing your build using stitch and glue is a real revelation (and an encouragement).
It's been interesting to compare some of your solutions to what I had in mind. You came up with some great ideas and that's giving me other ways to think about things. I would have never thought to put a 30" basement under the main floor, I wouldn't have thought it possible to stay low enough in overall height. The staterooms for your children are absolutely brilliant. I have no need of them myself but it still makes me think about space utilization in an entirely different way.
Thanks for checking out the frame rail height for me. I've found lots of body builder guides on line but not for the International trucks (which is the brand I've been most drawn to).
Les
I did a quick CAD drawing using a profile of an International, it seems you must have a step down (or steps) into the cab of the truck from the camper. A main deck at 30" above the frame rails really puts the floor high up on the back wall of the cab.
I have a design somewhat similar to yours; more in concept than actuality in the sense that it's living quarters with a cabover bed on a medium duty truck but the layouts are entirely different. Early on I thought about building using boat techniques but it seemed like everyone was using welded steel framing (and I don't weld) so I've had some reluctance to move ahead. Seeing your build using stitch and glue is a real revelation (and an encouragement).
It's been interesting to compare some of your solutions to what I had in mind. You came up with some great ideas and that's giving me other ways to think about things. I would have never thought to put a 30" basement under the main floor, I wouldn't have thought it possible to stay low enough in overall height. The staterooms for your children are absolutely brilliant. I have no need of them myself but it still makes me think about space utilization in an entirely different way.
Thanks for checking out the frame rail height for me. I've found lots of body builder guides on line but not for the International trucks (which is the brand I've been most drawn to).
Les
Hola Doug:
Thank you very much for sharing. Congratulations on your Courage, Ingenuity and family values.
Now to the interrogation.... I hope you don't mind.
Does your truck have a generator? I assume not by the amount of solar panels.
What is your battery storage capacity? Would you recommend more/less/same amount?
On the toilet. Would you choose any other type? Cassette or tank as you have now?
Did you have any trouble finding proper places for wate water dumping stations?
On the diesel stove. Would you consider a Gas stove or do you are happy with the Webasto?
Did you install a microwave and/or an oven?
On the heating, Did you install hot air besides radiant? Was the radiant heating comfortable enough? Did the truck engine keep everything warm enough? I noticed that you mention that you were always heating the water in your tank and used it as heat "storage". Would please elaborate on it? Would you be able to share your plumbing desing and make suggestions?
I am at crossroad on whether or not to purchase a generator.
Sorry for all the questions but your experience would save a ton of headaches. Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
Saludos
Thank you very much for sharing. Congratulations on your Courage, Ingenuity and family values.
Now to the interrogation.... I hope you don't mind.
Does your truck have a generator? I assume not by the amount of solar panels.
What is your battery storage capacity? Would you recommend more/less/same amount?
On the toilet. Would you choose any other type? Cassette or tank as you have now?
Did you have any trouble finding proper places for wate water dumping stations?
On the diesel stove. Would you consider a Gas stove or do you are happy with the Webasto?
Did you install a microwave and/or an oven?
On the heating, Did you install hot air besides radiant? Was the radiant heating comfortable enough? Did the truck engine keep everything warm enough? I noticed that you mention that you were always heating the water in your tank and used it as heat "storage". Would please elaborate on it? Would you be able to share your plumbing desing and make suggestions?
I am at crossroad on whether or not to purchase a generator.
Sorry for all the questions but your experience would save a ton of headaches. Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
Saludos
The berths really are a clever design. I've been trying to figure out ways to efficiently get something similar for my three kids and so far this is the best I've come up (see attached pictures). This will fit in the space most RV's use for a rear queen bed - about 8X8 feet. It's two "rooms" - one on the right for the two boys and one on the left for the daughter. We're considering possibly getting a toyhauler, building something like this in the back, with leftover space reserved for a small garage. Just one option we're considering.
Anyway, thanks for more pictures and info Doug! A few more questions for you since you seem to enjoy the interrogation!
You mentioned a shower - from the videos and website I had assumed there was only the bath. Is the shower in the bath and did you use recycled/filtered water for that as well?
With the Dickenson at one end of the trailer, how cold did the cabover get during the winter in Scotland? I assume that's where the radiant helped a lot. How did you make the loop in the tanks to heat the water? Is it an open or closed loop system?
What did you do for cooling in the summer? I don't see an A/C, nor any powered fans or vents. Were the kid's rooms ventilated?
I assume while driving the kids were riding in the booth in the back (it shows that on one of the videos). Are there seatbelts there or is the rig big enough to not need them? I imagine it got pretty bouncy up there!
How did the Vespa work out? I understand from the article that you got rid of the bikes at some point. Was the vespa mainly for errands and such?
The below-deck staterooms are a very clever idea, but I guess one compromise of that design is that you give up the storage that most rig use that space for. Did you feel you had enough storage and where was it located?
So if I understand correctly, the cab isn't mechanically attached to the camper? Did you have any issues with frame flex going over uneven terrain?
Thanks again Doug!
Anyway, thanks for more pictures and info Doug! A few more questions for you since you seem to enjoy the interrogation!
You mentioned a shower - from the videos and website I had assumed there was only the bath. Is the shower in the bath and did you use recycled/filtered water for that as well?
With the Dickenson at one end of the trailer, how cold did the cabover get during the winter in Scotland? I assume that's where the radiant helped a lot. How did you make the loop in the tanks to heat the water? Is it an open or closed loop system?
What did you do for cooling in the summer? I don't see an A/C, nor any powered fans or vents. Were the kid's rooms ventilated?
I assume while driving the kids were riding in the booth in the back (it shows that on one of the videos). Are there seatbelts there or is the rig big enough to not need them? I imagine it got pretty bouncy up there!
How did the Vespa work out? I understand from the article that you got rid of the bikes at some point. Was the vespa mainly for errands and such?
The below-deck staterooms are a very clever idea, but I guess one compromise of that design is that you give up the storage that most rig use that space for. Did you feel you had enough storage and where was it located?
So if I understand correctly, the cab isn't mechanically attached to the camper? Did you have any issues with frame flex going over uneven terrain?
Thanks again Doug!
Attachments
There is two steps up from the cab into the cabin. I'll try and find a picture for you.
1. The truck doesn't have a generator, but I reserved a space for it if the solar just wasn't cutting it, but it did fine. The truck has a 320A alternator so if the sun wasn't enough the truck provided nearly the same juice as a 4K generator. We had 2100AH of lifeline batteries, that was a luxury, I could have gotten by with 1/2 that but we would have really drained the batteries at times, which they don't like despite being deep cycle batteries.
2. Toilet. 5 people make lots of waste and I wanted to be able to dump at about the same interval as I took on water, about ten days. We have a 40 gal grey water tank and a 40 gallon black water tank. In France, Germany and Italy the highway rest stops have dump stations. We used toilets a lot, if we could park near a toilet I have a 20 foot pumpout hose with a ball valve at the end that I could drop in the toilet, otherwise I used two 5 gallon buckets and made 3-4 trips. Not a job I loved.
3. Propane would have been fine, it was easy to find everywhere, but I wasn't sure how available it would be and the single fuel, diesel, was great for peace of mind. I love the webasco. It takes a bit to heat up, but works well. It is very expensive and if you break the ceramic top as we did, it was $800 to fix! We have an installed microwave and a toaster oven that we kept in a cabinet
4. I installed a blower fan for the dickinson diesel heater that worked so well we could have not used the radiant heat, but it was nice to take the edge off by heating the water tanks. The system was super simple. The boiler would heat the stainless steel water tank- there was an extra coil in the hot water tank that I would circulate water from the bath through- after it ran through coils in the main water tank. Heating the bath would also heat the water tanks, to a lesser degree, and thus the entire cabin. When I wanted to use the bath without heating the cabin I closed off the coils in the water tank. I should made a drawing, its actually very simple, completely manual and worked well. The reason for heating the water tank was that it would absorb lots of heat quickly and then release it slowly over a long period of time with nothing running.
I'll try and dig up some pictures.
Overland Hadley
on a journey
I really appreciate the fact that you made most everything yourself, like the water tanks. Instead of spending a long time looking for water tanks that would fit, you simply custom made the tanks.
That being said, is there anything that you wish you had bought instead of made? And if so, what is the reason?