Short Block Chevy in a D1?
- Thread starter NitroRoo
- Start date
Scott Brady
Founder
When did this happen?
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I follow your line of thinking, and ascribe to it to some degree. But FWIW, I have watched the engine open/closed loop status via the scangauge, and the truck rarely goes into open loop, even towing my big ************* trailer up hills. Depending on how you drive, obviously. But I can probably do an 8% grade with the trailer at 40mph without going open loop. Without the trailer, it'll never go open loop on a hill unless you are really pouring the coal to it.
When running closed loop, it's 14.7:1 AFR. So, that keeps a lid on the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption due to fueling. Doesn't matter what engine you have, 14.7:1 is 14.7:1.
However, I should look at the timing, to see when it starts tapering off. That will also affect the BSFC.
IMO, the fuel consumption problem of the Disco/Rover engine is just due to an archaic combustion chamber design with horrible BSFC. Prior to BMW/Ford involvement, I doubt they had the capability to do any advanced CC design. That also explains why the engine needs premium despite such an attrocious specific power output (horsepower/L).
Combined with it's seeming frailty, I feel pretty confident saying it's far and away the worst engine I've ever owned.
Rereading the original point... I should say, the 4.6 doesn't seem to get any better milage than the 4.0. Maybe it's noticable towing the big ************* trailer which is why some people find the 15mpg claim incredulous... compared to the 4.0?
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
You have been too busy Scott! haha. I married it actually. It really is my wife's rig but I have been using it as my daily driver since last fall. Here is a thread with some shots of it on the weekend we got engaged. We got married a month later. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33979
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
That's an odd snobbery. In favor of an engine sold off overseas as not a great design instead of an engine that far outlived, performed, and was more efficient than the former simply because of the metal that is was cast in.It is made outa cast iron...enough said
And THAT is from someone who bleeds Ford blue!
I'll second+ the notion that an engine swap is a lot more headache than it might appear at first glance. And if you are not doing the work yourself it WILL cost more than you budgeted for. It's almost a rule that such projects always over-run their budget, no matter how big or small that budget might be.
If a suitable engine that will bolt in can be found that is always the best option.
No Snobbery at all just a fact, The question was why the latest generation of chevy motors are better then the old ones. The answer to that question is the old ones are cast iron. Now the new ones also have better combustion chambers and flow more air at the same displacement and are made from better components as well but the best reason to incure the extra cost if one was going to use a new GM motor would be that infact it wo uld not weigh much if anything more then the rovor motor. In the end adding weight to a car or truck is seldom a good thing.
Also I am far from a hater of old iron. I am a scout guy going back ages and I have a gear driven roller cam big block sitting in the center of my ski boat. So no Snobbery here.
Red90
Adventurer
I think the real reason to go this way is cost.... You can buy a brand new complete 350 crate engine for $2000.
$4115, 330 hp, fully dressed, brand new, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-19210008/
$4115, 330 hp, fully dressed, brand new, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-19210008/
Been a long time since I have posted. Haven't been keeping up with this forum but I did stumble on this thread and figured I should chime in.
I did a conversion to a 2004 GM Vortec 4.3L in my 1996 5sp Discovery for many reasons. The main one being that I purchased the vehicle with a misfire that turned out to be a totally destroyed #1 cylinder with a dropped liner. The block was trashed and when I saw the price of a rebuilt long block Rover engine I was not happy. I don't consider this a $4,000 engine for many reasons and the fact that all the replacement parts are hard to find and expensive I started to think about swaps. Using a Rover diesel also seemed too expensive and at the time I was a diesel development engineer and I wasn't too excited about using an old school mechanical injection diesel. I saw the Australian company sold a kit for 90deg GM engines and I sourced a v6 with under 20miles with all accessories from a yard in Washington state for around $1700 and took the plunge.
Yes the project took a lot more money and a lot more time then expected. Only 1/2 of the Australian conversion kit worked (maybe with an old V8 it would have worked better). The rest I had to get extensively modified or completely re-fabricated.
But most importantly yes I would do it again. The engine is more powerful, runs great on even the worst gas and I know if it breaks I can fix it for much less. I have been running it for 2 years now and there hasn't been any issues with the powertrain. The only minor problem was it took me forever to finally find a way to seal the exhaust to header that wouldn't come loose after a few hundred miles. I don't know if there was an improvement in millage. I didn't have a baseline since I got the truck with a bad engine but I seem to get from 11mpg to 18mpg with my setup. This doesn't seem bad to me considering the lift, tires and roof top tent.
I tried to document the conversion with pictures so please use this link to see the details: http://picasaweb.google.com/sam.shartzer/LandRoverEngineSwapSummer2007#
Feel free to email me with questions.
Also the links below show the new home garage paint job.
I did a conversion to a 2004 GM Vortec 4.3L in my 1996 5sp Discovery for many reasons. The main one being that I purchased the vehicle with a misfire that turned out to be a totally destroyed #1 cylinder with a dropped liner. The block was trashed and when I saw the price of a rebuilt long block Rover engine I was not happy. I don't consider this a $4,000 engine for many reasons and the fact that all the replacement parts are hard to find and expensive I started to think about swaps. Using a Rover diesel also seemed too expensive and at the time I was a diesel development engineer and I wasn't too excited about using an old school mechanical injection diesel. I saw the Australian company sold a kit for 90deg GM engines and I sourced a v6 with under 20miles with all accessories from a yard in Washington state for around $1700 and took the plunge.
Yes the project took a lot more money and a lot more time then expected. Only 1/2 of the Australian conversion kit worked (maybe with an old V8 it would have worked better). The rest I had to get extensively modified or completely re-fabricated.
But most importantly yes I would do it again. The engine is more powerful, runs great on even the worst gas and I know if it breaks I can fix it for much less. I have been running it for 2 years now and there hasn't been any issues with the powertrain. The only minor problem was it took me forever to finally find a way to seal the exhaust to header that wouldn't come loose after a few hundred miles. I don't know if there was an improvement in millage. I didn't have a baseline since I got the truck with a bad engine but I seem to get from 11mpg to 18mpg with my setup. This doesn't seem bad to me considering the lift, tires and roof top tent.
I tried to document the conversion with pictures so please use this link to see the details: http://picasaweb.google.com/sam.shartzer/LandRoverEngineSwapSummer2007#
Feel free to email me with questions.
Also the links below show the new home garage paint job.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
That makes much more sense. The way that I read your previous post was in favor of the Buick/LR engine over an SBC.No Snobbery at all just a fact, The question was why the latest generation of chevy motors are better then the old ones. The answer to that question is the old ones are cast iron. Now the new ones also have better combustion chambers and flow more air at the same displacement and are made from better components as well but the best reason to incure the extra cost if one was going to use a new GM motor would be that infact it wo uld not weigh much if anything more then the rovor motor. In the end adding weight to a car or truck is seldom a good thing.
Also I am far from a hater of old iron. I am a scout guy going back ages and I have a gear driven roller cam big block sitting in the center of my ski boat. So no Snobbery here.
The cost of the engine is only the beginning, and can be the most trivial part of the process.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Sam, in your opinion is there really enough space in the front of the engine bay for the V8? I know people have done the swap but getting it running and living with it are two different things.
Chris,
I really don't know. I would not count on it though. If you look at the pictures I had a hell of a time making the power steering pump fit. I had to move my steering box forward a few inches. If there is a easy way to relocate the power steering pump or if it is located in a different location on the V8's I think it could be possible. Or maybe install a rack and pinion. Don't know all the details on this. I just mastered the V6 swap.
I really don't know. I would not count on it though. If you look at the pictures I had a hell of a time making the power steering pump fit. I had to move my steering box forward a few inches. If there is a easy way to relocate the power steering pump or if it is located in a different location on the V8's I think it could be possible. Or maybe install a rack and pinion. Don't know all the details on this. I just mastered the V6 swap.