SIII 109 body on a 110 chassis?

[Allen Bosely]

I'm sitting here on a rainy afternoon and got to wondering if this would be a reasonably feasible option.

Since we will be rebuilding a 83' 110 with a new galvanized chassis & bulkhead and putting in a 300Tdi and R380 in it anyway.

Would it be a whole lot more work to put a SIII 109 body from the bulkhead back instead of using 110 parts?

The bulkhead would need to be modified for the 109 windshield but would the rest basically fit or would the 109 have totally different mounting system and dimensions?

If the 109 body has a bit different mounts the chassis could be ordered with the correct mounts.

I guess it would be a bit like a Stage 1 but with a 300Tdi and a coil chassis.

Or (most likely) is there a number of hidden problems I'm not aware of that would make this a less than practical idea?

I like the looks SIII windshield and body style better (more old school) than the 110 but the 110 running gear has some advantages especially from a rebuild stand point plus PS,PB,AC, 300Tdi & R380 are easier to have in a 110 chassis.

So was wondering if the two could be combined?

Allen

 

[revor]

Do it, it will be fun there only subtle differences.

Hang the front of a 110 on it and use a tunnel cover from a Defender, thes rest would be minimal.
I migt even have a tunnel cover you could have..

 

[James86004]

As one who has to bend over to see stop lights, I wonder why you would want to do that! The D110 windscreen is taller than the Series 109 one.

For what it is worth, I have compared the 109 Chassis to the chassis on my 93 Range Rover LWB, and the body mounting points are in similar places. I think the 110 chassis and the LWB chassis (108" wheelbase) are really similar, except for the rear crossmember.

 

[Mercedesrover]

Do it, it will be fun there only subtle differences.

Hang the front of a 110 on it and use a tunnel cover from a Defender, thes rest would be minimal.
I migt even have a tunnel cover you could have..

The seat box is a little different where the tunnel comes to it. If you use a Defender tunnel, get yourself a Defender seat box as well. It'll save lots of time. George at Rovers Down South has some take-offs for cheap.

jim

 

[TeriAnn]

I'm sitting here on a rainy afternoon and got to wondering if this would be a reasonably feasible option.

Since we will be rebuilding a 83' 110 with a new galvanized chassis & bulkhead and putting in a 300Tdi and R380 in it anyway.

A lot depends upon what you have right now. If you start out with a 109, you can reframe it, add a new drive train & keep it registered as a 109.

I SUSPECT THAT IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO SPECIAL ORDER A COIL SPRUNG 109 FRAME WITH MOUNTS FOR A 300TDI & R380.

Opps sorry. Just noticed caps lock was on and I'm too lazy to delete & write over.

The '83 is pre tdi.and I don't think 300tdis are registerable in some states on emissions controlled vehicles.

If it were me I'd get a pre-'74 109, 200tdi from a Defender, An Ashcroft R380 with short bellhousing (bolts to the 200tdi), a custom made colier frame & if you want to use coiler axles a R230 or if you want to use series axle housings, a Series transfercase. Ashcroft also has a kit that will adapt a Series transfercase to either a R380 or a LT77.

Just a thought.

 

[revor]

A lot depends upon what you have right now. If you start out with a 109, you can reframe it, add a new drive train & keep it registered as a 109.

I SUSPECT THAT IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO SPECIAL ORDER A COIL SPRUNG 109 FRAME WITH MOUNTS FOR A 300TDI & R380.

Opps sorry. Just noticed caps lock was on and I'm too lazy to delete & write over.

The '83 is pre tdi.and I don't think 300tdis are registerable in some states on emissions controlled vehicles.

If it were me I'd get a pre-'74 109, 200tdi from a Defender, An Ashcroft R380 with short bellhousing (bolts to the 200tdi), a custom made colier frame & if you want to use coiler axles a R230 or if you want to use series axle housings, a Series transfercase. Ashcroft also has a kit that will adapt a Series transfercase to either a R380 or a LT77.

Just a thought.

lAZY lAZY...


Wait I just did the same thing!!! Really!

Lotsa new frames for the 109 can be had with fixin's for coil springs and the 300Tdi. But IMO at some point the feds only check for only one VIN. If it's that old they won't care what engine is in it.. Many times you can find a nice clean truck (running even) with a completely rotted out chassis. Go get it registered then start your work. Look to the north in Canada for a rolling chassis of the several I've had the where worth about 3K, frame, axles, brake piping in good shape steering links and a steering box.
These would likely have 2.5 Na Diesel mounts but you just chop them off and weld on the simple mounts for the 300 when you get the motor (complete take out kit with the crossmember to help locate the front mounts) from the UK. Put a Disco fuel tank in it and drop the 109 body right on. with the coilers wider axles you would likely have to duplicate the Defender type cut outs on the rear wheel arches.

There are some wings for the front on E Bay right now for $100 per each. No inner well's but I have some of those if you need.

It's a very doable and legal thing to do. Just as legal as putting a custom frame under a '57 chevy hot rod or a 29 ford bucket T. Unless of course you are in Wisconsin.

 

[ntsqd]

In CA so long as the swapped-in engine is of the same or newer model year as the vehicle you're good to go. If the vintage of the vehicle is pre-'74 ('74 and earlier) you're pretty much good to go regardless.

CA DMV does have a little known law stating that you have to notify them if you make such a swap. However, and not that I'm advocating breaking any laws, but consider that if you have put a smog vintage engine (post-'75) in a pre-'74 you open up the possible opportunity to be placed in the Bi-Annual Smog Inspection system.

Diesels are currently treated a little different, but there is talk of making them conform the same as the gassers. Should that come to pass, don't put yourself in a bad spot in the future.

 

[Allen Bosely]

How much shorter is the windshield on a 109 as compared to a 110?

I would assume head room is some what less? Any one know about how much
less?

Are SIII Axels the same width Wheel Mount Surface to WSM as 110 Axels?

I'm working from a bit of a disadvantage as I have never sat in a SIII let alone drove one. Only been in a 90 a time or to.

My wife is curious (concerned) about the possible reduction in head room and the lower windshield of the 109 as opposed to a 110.

Thanks for all the input, keep it coming.:clapsmile

Allen

 

[stevenmd]

Great thread.

Leads me to ask the question of how difficult would it be to put a SIII or SIIa body on a RRC LWB frame?

 

[greenmeanie]

There was someone on LR exchange selling a prject that was a SIIA SW body, galvy SIII bulkhead and T-posts on a modified galvy 110 chassis. IIRC he wanted about $4500 and was in Ohio (I'm probably wrong with that.) I think I also saw it in the dweb classidies too. From the e-mail he sent me therte was a lot of body mount fabrication that went on but I don't know what he started from.

Coiler axles are wider but if yo uare careful with your wheel choice thery can just about fit under the wheel arches. Look at the ECR web site for the conversion they did on an old NADA SW.

IIRC there s not a lot of difference in the headroom between the 110 and the series truck. The difference in windscreen height is taken up in the slop angle at the front of the roof.

Personally I'd go more along the lines of Jim's diesel NADA IIA build. There's nothing wrong with leafs, especially parabolics and it would make the project much simpler.

Because of the complete apathy from the Phoenix EPA office about the laws concerning diesel swaps I committed to running a Chevy 292 6 cyl, NP435 to series transfer case which should be pretty bomb proof.

Cheers
Gregor

 

[James86004]

How much shorter is the windshield on a 109 as compared to a 110?

I would assume head room is some what less? Any one know about how much
less?

Are SIII Axels the same width Wheel Mount Surface to WSM as 110 Axels?

Allen

The headroom is exactly the same. The top of the Series windshield is at the same level as the top of the doors, whereas on the Defender they cut out the top of the front of the hardtop to allow for a bigger windsheild. But aft of the windshield, I think the hard tops are the same, and maybe even interchangeable.

Take a look at pictures of the top edge of the windshield of a Series truck.

The Expo is not letting me upload a photo right now, but some pictures are onlilne here:
http://www.azlro.org/photos/v/2008/Mojave+Road/


The Series Axles are about 4" narrower.

 

[revor]

Depending how tall you are you might find a Series windscreen a bit nicer.. I'm on the shorter side at 5'8" and the 110 windscreen drines me crazy will all the sun coming in... Sometimes I feel like I'm cooking.

 

[junkyddog11]

The body will fit fine as far as mounting points go but the rear wheel wells on a 109 body do not line up with the axle location when using a 110 chassis.
The body cut out is entirely a different shape and makes it look as if the wheel is much more than the 1" difference in wheelbase toward the rear of the vehicle.

I could post a picture, but that would involve more effort than TeriAnn not correcting her grammar (with a sentence almost as long as the original):sombrero:

Just kiddin' sort of.......I actually don't have any pics of it....but I do have a 109 body sitting on a 110 chassis at the shop, and could take a pic if anyone wants one, just not right now.

 

[TeriAnn]

The body cut out is entirely a different shape and makes it look as if the wheel is much more than the 1" difference in wheelbase toward the rear of the vehicle.

Did I mention that I drive a Land Rover 111?
Series rear axles are not centered in the wheel cut out. They are about 1-1/2 inches forward of centre. When I went to taller tyres I also moved the axle rearwards on the leaf springs to centre them in the wheel arch.

I did this with the use of a 1-1/2 inch offset spacer plate between the axle housing and spring plate. My 109 measured 109 and 1/2 inches axle centre to axle centre before, so 111 inches afterwards.

2 things to remember, a longer rear propshaft and if you have a Salisbury with diff guard, the clearance between a Salisbury diff guard and a rear fuel tank at full upward articulation. My replacement rear fuel tank is dished in just above the Salisbury. Longer axle stop pads would have worked to but I would have lost upward articulation.

I could post a picture, but that would involve more effort than TeriAnn not correcting her grammar (with a sentence almost as long as the original)

Sorry if I offended even in the slightest. Words are not my native language. I think in images and have to translate to words in order to communicate with others. Words are really good for getting thoughts across to others but they don't hold a candle to images in nonnumerical conceptualization.

Translating a holistic gestalt into a simple serial communications protocol isn't always easy. Sometimes I get a little lost putting words into a simple enough arrangement for others to understand.

 

[revor]

The body will fit fine as far as mounting points go but the rear wheel wells on a 109 body do not line up with the axle location when using a 110 chassis.
The body cut out is entirely a different shape and makes it look as if the wheel is much more than the 1" difference in wheelbase toward the rear of the vehicle.

I could post a picture, but that would involve more effort than TeriAnn not correcting her grammar (with a sentence almost as long as the original):sombrero:

Just kiddin' sort of.......I actually don't have any pics of it....but I do have a 109 body sitting on a 110 chassis at the shop, and could take a pic if anyone wants one, just not right now.

That's why they make saw's and nibblers..:littlefriend: