Billoftt
Active member
All they have to do is just put the damn jumper in like everyone else does.
Then the modders will just remove it again...
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Single band vs dual band value
- Thread starter ultraclyde
- Start date
Then the modders will just remove it again...
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DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I think it's going to be hard coded into firmware and require MARS/CAP sort of mods. Which as you note aren't difficult being usually zero ohm jumpers. But it won't be documented. I think the biggest issue here may be the relationship Motorola, Kenwood, Hytera, EF Johnson have with hams. It's not exactly cozy now and I wonder if their lawyers are going over things with a fine toothed comb. What is support going to say if a ham calls asking for CPS or help with a repeater?
ultraclyde
Observer
The notice is interesting reading for sure. Frankly, I kind of wondered why companies were getting away with selling radios that would transmit illegally anyway. I mean, why was the FCC granting a type 15 on a radio that is capable of transmitting on MARS/GMRS/FRS/etc frequencies? Why grant a type 95 on one that will transmit on 2m? It seems like this enforcement will close a loophole that has been pretty common, but it's a loop hole of their own creation.
And if stuff was being sold that was not FCC approved at all, that's an enforcement issue anyway.
And if stuff was being sold that was not FCC approved at all, that's an enforcement issue anyway.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Just like that 0.0000000000001% of their sales are gone.
Hillbilly Heaven
Explorer
Actually it is a Customs enforcement problem. Customs is the one that inspects the shipment and importation documentation and determine it meets FCC regs. There is a European Ham that has designed and built a very nice HF Amplifier. Rather than pass on to the ham the cost in having it FCC certified for import, he sells it as a complete non functioning kit. It requires the ham to finish the build by supplying and installing internal RF cabling, cooling fan, and a Raspberry Pi to control the amp. About a 1/3 the cost of a complete amplifier that can be complete and on the air in a couple of nights time. Similar to the process Elekraft uses here in the states.
Billoftt
Active member
I meant that as a tongue-in-cheek joke.
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Just like that 0.0000000000001% of their sales are gone.
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DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Some of it is tested using the amateur radio exemption. Anything sold commercially for ham radio only needs to be tested per Part 15. That's not a radio rule but a general rule for anything that has a switching signal that may create RF. Computers, power supplies, microwaves, LED lights, everything has to be Part 15 tested. For amateur equipment the manufacturer (this includes Yaesu and Icom and Kenwood) usually calls it a "scanning receiver" for this testing. So they pass Part 15 just turned on receiving and not as an intentional transmitter.
Since our individual amateur license gives us authority to use any equipment we wish with the stipulation that it meets generally accepted guidelines for spectral purity and frequency stability. We can repair our own radios, make our own radios. We're technically supposed to know and verify our radios, but for a number of decades now we trust the manufacturers of commercial gear aren't selling junk. But as long as a radio transmits only on ham bands and doesn't exceed the band edges we can use it without any testing of the transmitter like they have to for every other service. I've said it many times, hams are given a lot of leeway due to history and understanding. We can't abuse it and can't let it be abused. Unfortunately it's also nice having these cheap frequency nimble radios to play with.
What I suspect will come from this is Part 97 will get a type acceptance and we may eventually lose our ability to build, repair and test our radios. That will be unfortunate because tinkering is fundamental to the hobby. Perhaps the FCC and Moto/Kenwood/Yaesu/Icom/Hytera are concerned with their business. I dunno. There's a lot of these radios brought in and used for school districts and volunteer fire departments, not to mention the number of ham radio, that it may be real money. Maybe the FCC really is worried about unlicensed users, illegal FRS and GMRS, I dunno.
The whole thing is a charlie foxtrot I think. I do think it's funny that suddenly the FCC is worried about these illegal radios when they gave up on "export" radios for CB decades ago. No real money at stake for the big players there, though...
Baofeng could have put all this to rest if a month or two ago they'd just agree to test all their radios to Part 90, which doesn't require frequency locked radios. Some of it was at one point approved for Part 90 I thought. It would have raised the price, maybe significantly. But the whole mess would have been over. Instead they continued to play games and ended up I suspect ticked off the wrong lawyers and lobbyists.
In the end it'll be the hams that are hurt. Maybe it'll be more difficult to get Motorola to sell us software for building repeaters, maybe our gear will get even more expensive due to more testing requirements. Probably in the near term if this doesn't stop all the radios will be locked to only transmit on ham bands and we'll get an influx of unlicensed users here rather than GMRS.
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kbroderick
New member
Hmm...does that mean that I need to hurry up and buy a radio if I want one that can monitor local public-safety frequencies as well as operate on ham frequencies?
dreadlocks
Well-known member
For that use, no.. not really.. nothing prevents radios from RX public safety frequencies, and most can.. its just they cant TX on em. (and most could w/modification, just not off the shelf)
I just picked up a few more of my GMRS handhelds because I have a feeling there gonna be yanked from Amazon.. eventually.
I just picked up a few more of my GMRS handhelds because I have a feeling there gonna be yanked from Amazon.. eventually.
dreadlocks
Well-known member
they never really were kosher, its always been true that uncertified amateur radios have to be limited to TX only on amateur frequencies or else be certified.. this changes nothing, other than they are going to be enforcing it now, supposedly.. we'll see, this is the FCC.. they talk big but rarely do anything.
here is more info: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/tag/advisory
might be able to update the firmware on your radios soon and make them completely complaint, if all it needs is a method that wont let you key in any frequency thats not part of the HAM Bands
here is more info: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/tag/advisory
might be able to update the firmware on your radios soon and make them completely complaint, if all it needs is a method that wont let you key in any frequency thats not part of the HAM Bands
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DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Your radio is just as kosher now for amateur use as it ever was or will be. As long as you use for ham stuff you are totally fine. I believe it has an FCC certification under Part 15 under ID 2AGNDF8HP. Should have a sticker on it with this anyway, it's hard to know for sure honestly.
What this FCC action is supposed to be about it using radios such as yours for GMRS, FRS, businesses, schools and the like. It doesn't carry AFAIK testing or certification to be used for those services. You can use it all you want for amateur stuff. Well, I mean, just as long as it has legitimate Part 15 testing, which may be questionable as I understand it about those radios.
Your second question is one of use. HTs are nice to have but for mobile use having a mobile radio I think is better. More power, set up to mount and wire securely, easier to use mobile, etc. My recommendation when asked to always buy a decent mobile first if you're going to use it in your truck. It'll work better and if you get more into the hobby by chance you'll always find a use for it if you replace it. An APRS station, use it in the house, build a portable EMCOMM box with it.
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prerunner1982
Adventurer
Dave I am not sure the FCC agrees.
"Rather, these devices may only be imported, advertised, sold, or used only if the FCC first has approved them under its equipment authorization process (or unless the devices operate exclusively on frequencies reserved for amateur licensees or they are intended for use exclusively by the federal government). "
Nobody else is likely to know or care. Maybe don't go around announcing your are using a illegal Baofeng... tell them it's a Kenwood or Yaesu and they will tell you how good it sounds.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
That's the disconnect (e.g "loophole") in the rules. The only technical requirement in Part 97 is that a commercial amp can't be capable of transmitting in 11m on the CB band and that all devices offered for sale must pass Part 15 testing. There's only specification for where an amateur can transmit, spectrum allocation, quiet zones, requirements for avoiding interference, etc. Part 90 and Part 95 dictate that a radio must do or cannot technically be capable of various things.
The violation is a ham transmitting out of the ham bands, the equipment to do that isn't regulated within Part 97. There are perhaps other rules that dictate possession of radio equipment capable of this or that is illegal but I think that may be such as only licensed pilots can have transmitters for 108-137 or that sort of thing.
That's what I mean, until (or unless) they change Part 97 as long as something is sold as a ham radio and tested as a scanner receiver there's no law or regulation the FCC can lean on to prevent a ham from owning these radios. They can stop new import perhaps under customs laws or something. But I don't know the legal authority they could use to punish a ham owning or using one for amateur use. Unless they do in fact splatter all over out of band, which is a distinct possibility...
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