skid plates?

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
goodtimes said:
Hmm...so it was just a carry over when the designers moved on to CJ's, and it has been used ever since.

But RTI ramps are quite useful for increasing the amount of grunting and knuckle dragging among the "hold my beer and watch this" croud. Oh, they're kinda handy for figuring out if your bump stops are to damn short.
hehehe...at the risk of seeming even more biased towards Jeeps over anything else...when you are "Building to be the Best" (old Chrysler tag line)you take what works and keep building on that. While the "others" are out measuring each others protruberances with things like RTI, the Jeeps keep on doing what they have for 50 years plus.... :) .....better than anyone else.

Best as always,

Bob

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 
:Wow1: Ya learn somethin' every day! Thanks Bob :D.

Aaron are the zebra stripes for hiding in tall grass when the rubber side goes up? :elkgrin:

Personally I wouldn't use aluminum or plastic for a skid plate, other than being hard to repair in the field, having machined those two as well as steel, I'd rather load three tons on a piece of steel and drag it across a sharp rock any day, versus anything else (particularly aluminum).

I'm using 3/16" steel plate for skids. Since the structure of the frame, sliders, skids and body are effectively a box, everything is supporting everything else well enough for what I do.

If the 3/16" plate were only supported at the ends, it wouldn't be adequate for the truck, but since most of the plates are narrow, or are broken in a couple places for rigidity, or have a crosspiece, they work fine--that's the design element a few people mentioned. I could probably go to 1/8" but by the time I finished supporting everything it would be heavier, more laborious, thicker, and if I suddenly high-centered 6500# on a piece of 1/8" plate I would not want to bet that it wouldn't deform and result in keying the rock in to the skid plate, making it harder to extract. 3/16" is good enough, and for things like a belly skid, where you rarely use it, a few strategic holes will keep the weight down. Throw a few dimple dies at the skid plates which won't be supporting as much weight, and you'll drop the dead weight even further. I just haven't got around to hole-sawing the belly skid yet, and I could probably hole-saw and dimple die the other skids to drop some weight, as long as the dimples didn't impact critical components.

Bob what's your take on dimple dies in 3/16" plate? Worth the effort, or is it good enough to leave the flat hole?

-Sean
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
devinsixtyseven said:
:Wow1: Ya learn somethin' every day! Thanks Bob :D.

Aaron are the zebra stripes for hiding in tall grass when the rubber side goes up? :elkgrin:

Personally I wouldn't use aluminum or plastic for a skid plate, other than being hard to repair in the field, having machined those two as well as steel, I'd rather load three tons on a piece of steel and drag it across a sharp rock any day, versus anything else (particularly aluminum).

I'm using 3/16" steel plate for skids. Since the structure of the frame, sliders, skids and body are effectively a box, everything is supporting everything else well enough for what I do.

If the 3/16" plate were only supported at the ends, it wouldn't be adequate for the truck, but since most of the plates are narrow, or are broken in a couple places for rigidity, or have a crosspiece, they work fine--that's the design element a few people mentioned. I could probably go to 1/8" but by the time I finished supporting everything it would be heavier, more laborious, thicker, and if I suddenly high-centered 6500# on a piece of 1/8" plate I would not want to bet that it wouldn't deform and result in keying the rock in to the skid plate, making it harder to extract. 3/16" is good enough, and for things like a belly skid, where you rarely use it, a few strategic holes will keep the weight down. Throw a few dimple dies at the skid plates which won't be supporting as much weight, and you'll drop the dead weight even further. I just haven't got around to hole-sawing the belly skid yet, and I could probably hole-saw and dimple die the other skids to drop some weight, as long as the dimples didn't impact critical components.

Bob what's your take on dimple dies in 3/16" plate? Worth the effort, or is it good enough to leave the flat hole?

-Sean
If by "dimple dies" you mean "coining", or creating a recess that is as deep as the bolt head is tall, yes, I would go to the extra effort and cost, HOWEVER, not everyone would agree. My reasoning is that with a coined area, the bolt head is no longer subject to the shear forces of sliding along that example piece of granite. It does increase the complexity of fabrication and cost of that fabrication...hence, it is up to the individual to decide. Look at the OEM skidplates from almost any OE...you will invariably find coined bolt head recesses -sometimes 3 or more bolt heads wide, but nonetheless, coined.

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 
Not coined, but I didn't know that was a possibility.

I meant the process where a hole is cut in a sheet of material, then male and female die are pressed together on either side of the sheet, creating a flange at the hole and adding rigidity to the piece.
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
devinsixtyseven said:
Not coined, but I didn't know that was a possibility.

I meant the process where a hole is cut in a sheet of material, then male and female die are pressed together on either side of the sheet, creating a flange at the hole and adding rigidity to the piece.
Ok, sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking.

Yes, that will provide stiffness to the skidplate, but the clamp load of tightening the bolt will concentrate the load only on the flange you extrude. No necessarilly bad, just a different method. Personally, I would coin the bolt area as mentioned earlier to keep the point loading below the yield of the material used (generally 36,000 lb/in2 for mild steel to 50,000lbs/in2 for X10). For example, on a 1/2" bolt (0.750 max to 0.736 min across the flats of the head of the nut-nominal size 3/4 inch socket or wrench) I would create a coined area about 1.25" to 1.5" (4.91 sq inches of clamp area) on the bolt head side of the plate (male side of the coining die) to provide socket or wrench clearance to install and remove and spread the loading.

Flanging is usually used around the periphery of the plate to increase the edge bending stiffness.

Hope this helps...

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 
Bob_Sheaves said:
Flanging is usually used around the periphery of the plate to increase the edge bending stiffness.
No worries, that's actually what I meant right there, but applied across a plate at regular intervals to add strength to the plate, not holes through which a bolt would pass, just a way to remove material but keep or add strength to the part.
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
Holes are evil. Avoid them at all costs.




Then when you have to put a hole in so the danged thing gets some airflow where ever it's needed coining or 'dimpling them makes them look cooler and adds stiffness to the design (NOT the material).


A note on using AR type steels for skidplates; not all of the various AR alloys out there are good at dealing with impact. I would take Bob's recommendation for THE particular alloy, and make darn sure that you get that alloy and not something 'just as good.'

Desert race buggies use aluminum skidplates. 21G's at their weight still isn't a very big number. Then again they're more for flying rock deflection than actual impact/sliding incidents.
Biggest problem I have with aluminum is that the alloy most likely to be used for a skidplate (6061) is soft. Hang up on a sharp rock point and an aluminum plate can imprint on the point giving it traction where you really didn't want it. Same would be true, only more so, with most of the common bearing type Engineering polymers (Teflon, Delrin/Acetal/Celcon, Nylon, UMHW, etc).

If you want trick skidplates have them Electroless Nickel/Teflon plated. They will not rust and they'll be slipperier than greased goose dander on a door knob.
 

xcmountain80

Expedition Leader
Now to bring up something not covered yet. In the event we are doing fluid changes for t-case, diff, oil pan, tranny... etc. This poses a slight challenge at least for those of us using the heavy steel plates. I did come across 2 similar product that alleviate part of the problem. The fram sure drain and the other I cant remember. I have a 4Runner and changing the filter with oil change proves to be messy without the removal of the skid plates. I could opt for a filter relocate but is it really worth it? The skids I use have a hole where the oil drain plug is and thats it, so with the addition of the sure drain or other product the oil comes out through a hose and leaves you with minimal mess. Though if a filter changed is required take the plate of and save your self the $15 for the sure drain.

Aaron
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
My thinking on any remote drain method is that it's another system to fail. I would sooner cut an access hole in the plate. If the hole leaves something vulnerable, then being steel, tag a flange around the top opening of the hole to bolt a cover plate back into. Flathead socket heads are easy, but they too are vulnerable to stripping & trail damage of the hex socket.
My preference is to use hex head bolts sunken into fabricated counterbores. First make the filler plate. Put holes in it big enough for the socket for the plate holding bolts to fit thru. Then make spacers roughly the thickness of the bolt head minus the thickness of the plate, if needed to get the bolt heads flush to below flush with the bottom of the plate. Next make the plates with the bolt holes. Weld this all together and then make the flange & spacer(s) on the skidplate. Rarely do I go to that much trouble. ;)

If that's simply not an option then I'd consider some sort of remote drain method. The very first thing I would do is figure out what the thread size & pitch of the drain plug is. Then dig into the various fitting catalogs looking for an adapter fitting to that thread from one of the AN/JIC dash sizes. Preferably you've find one in a steel (JIC) fitting instead of an AN (aluminum). There are a lot of adapter fittings that use a crush washer seal. Also, nearly every fitting design uses a std bolt pitch & size for it's threads i.e. the -6 JIC/AN 37* fitting uses a 9/16" NF thread, as does the -6 O-Ring Boss (ORB) fitting. There are metric crush washer std fittings and the odds are reasonable that you can find an adapter fitting to work. When necessary at work I have been known to use a large size NPT fitting and turn it down to make my own metric crush washer adapter.

Once you have that, then you can pick the valve and it's mount location. The way I did the drain on the dry sump tank on work's Turbo Test stand was to use a regular ball valve combined with a couple JIC fittings. I used an NPT to JIC/AN adapter out of the valve, and then put a JIC Cap on the fitting. This way even if the valve's lever does get moved by something/someone w/o first removing the cap the oil still can't accidentally be drained.
I would use rubber lined braided stainless hose for the connection. I wouldn't use the more spendy teflon lined hose b/c it has a tendency to kink & possibly rupture when crimped. I would choose the braided over the other options for it's effectively being armored. A very good second choice would be the hose used in OTR/Class 8 truck oil systems (Weatherhead HO69 or equivelent).


For a remoted oil filter I would not buy one of the kits. I've yet to see one that had the correct hose & fittings for the job. Frequently the remote filter pad is one of the cheap, cheesy die castings. There are good die cast & sand cast filter pads out there, just need to look for them. The problem with the cheep ones is that they usually do not have enough strength btwn the mounting flange and the filter's flange. A full oil filter isn't light and I've seen quite a few of the cheezy ones fail at the desert races. There are billet pads available. They're spendy, but usually do not suffer from strength issues. System One (p/n's 222-90007/8)and Peterson Fluid Systems both make nice parts.
The kits usually come with cheep hose and multi-barbed fittings that use hose clamps. There is a reason race vehicles don't use hose clamps on thier oil system plumbing & given where such a thing is likely to fail for anyone on this forum we shouldn't either. A reasonable cost option is to use the so-called "Push-Loc" or "Barb-tite" fittings and their specific hose. My hose of choice for this type of fitting is Aeroquip FC-332. Oil, gasoline, and diesel have no effect on either the inside or the outside of this hose. The fittings have 2 or 3 barbs, depending on size, and you will work to get the hose over the barbs (use oil on the fitting & the ID of the hose), however if you leave a little extra length any problem with the hose at the fitting can be field repaired. These fittings do not need nor want a hose clamp. Using one will cut the hose on the barb. If that makes you a little nervous what I do in locations where others need re-assurence that the hose won't come off the fitting is to either put a tie-wrap/zip-tie between the first and second barbs, or do a double Safety Wire wrap in the same place. These need only be snug, not tight. Tight invites the same cutting problem.

Well now, that went longer than I thought it would.....
apprapo that it's my 100th post here.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
188,947
Messages
2,911,261
Members
231,422
Latest member
Bart605
Top