Small camera advice needed

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

So I've decided that a digital point 'n shoot, or maybe a rangefinder, should be added to my stash. I'm fairly savvy when it comes to traditional SLR's and DSLR's, but I've never really been too hip in the digital point 'n shoot or digital rangefinder SLR realm. I'm counting on you trusty ExPo folks to help guide me into the world of pocket cameras. I was thinking the Leica M9 looked pretty nice... but apparently Leica thinks they're pretty nice too (read: Seriously... $7k ?!?).

Criteria: Small, easy to use, under $400, tough(do they still make touch little cameras?), and most importantly, long battery life. Rangefinder is preferred, but a point'n'shoot would be just fine too. Obviously, the higher the resolution the better, and a reputable brand name (Nikon, Canon, Leica, 'Blad, etc) is a good thing. It'll be the camera that I keep around regularly- glovebox, pocket, backpack, whatever... the "everyday" camera.

So tell me people... what do you think the best fit might be?

 

[jcbrandon]

James-

I've been pretty happy with the Canon PowerShot SD850 IS I've been using for the past couple of years. Good quality pictures. Easy to use. And enough manual controls to be useful. Also pretty rugged. Mine is certainly showing its age but has never failed to work as advertised. I've been especially impressed with its macro abilities.

 

[TJDIV]

X2 on the Canon Elph. I use a 790IS and don't leave home without it.
Takes great photos, great video, and it's tough!

Most of the Expo Video I shot was with that little camera!

 

[mhiscox]

I'm very happy with my Panasonic DMC-LX3. It's an interesting camera, with a form factor not too different from old rangefinders, and a nice feel. The "want-it-or-not issue" on the LX3 is the 24-60 35mm-eqivalent lens . . . you get a very handy wide-angle lens in exchange for a mere 2.5x zoom. However, the number of times I'm trying to fit a car in frame at a show, capture a landscape or get a nice group shot is greater than the number of times I'm trying to pick an eagle out of a tree, so I'm sold on it.

Little over your $400 budget, however. Nice review at:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmclx3/

 

[Desert Dan]

I don't like LCD screens in the bright sunlight.

I still wanted to have a view finder as well as an LCD screen so I went with a Cannon PowerShot A110IS (4x zoom and 12.1 mega pix).

It is small and takes great pictures and if good on hikes or on my belt but I still bring my DSLR camera on long trips.

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

Thanks for the input, folks! Does anyone have an opinion about Kodak brand cameras? I was looking at the "Slice" and thought it looked kind of neat. I like the size of it, as well as how it doesn't have a lens sticking out of it. I thought he "Z950" looked okay too.

Thoughts?

 

[Spur]

Don't forget about the S90. It lacks a rangefinder, but it has lots of other handy features like the control ring and a size advantage over the LX3. I spent a long time deciding between the Lumix, G11, and S90. Ultimately I went with the S90 because of the size advantage. If a camera is small enough to fit in my shirt pocket, then I never have an excuse to not carry it.

Give it a looksie:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons90/

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

Thanks for the recommendation! The S90 looks like a good size, but at 10MP, it lacks the resolution of several other models that I'm looking at (12MP+)... I should add minimum 12MP to my search criteria. Also, without a rangefinder, the S90 will definitely eat up the batteries faster than other models that do have a rangefinder, and loooong battery life is an important feature for me. I bet it's perfect for someone out there though!

 

[DiploStrat]

Megapixels don't Matter!

... 10MP, it lacks the resolution of several other models that I'm looking at (12MP+)... I should add minimum 12MP to my search criteria.

Couple of comments:

-- I am not the expert on P&S, but physics is physics. All things being equal, the larger the sensor and the LOWER the megapixel count, the lower the noise and the higher the quality. Remember, even 5 MP will print a "perfect" 8x10. Noise makes images look worse than lower resolution.

-- Increased resolution (megapixel count) really only matters when you double the count. Thus 5-6 MP are the same. At 8-12 MP you will see some difference over 5-6, etc. All of this assumes the same size sensor. A 6 MP SLR (usually APS-C format) will look much, much better than any small point and shoot, even one rated at 12 MP. Canon took some grief when the image quality of some of their cameras dropped when they upped the MP count.

-- I have a Sony T-10 (credit card format). It will do head and shoulder portraits, but almost anything else and the noise, etc., is terrible. If I had it to do over, I would have definitely gone for a camera with a larger sensor; even giving up some pocket space.

-- DPReview.com usually gives you sensor size and pixel per sq. cm counts.

-- Canon generally get better reviews for P&S than Nikon.

Best wishes!

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

Thanks for the insightful feedback, and I agree with you that a large sensor is a good thing. Physical size matters in this case though, and typically the larger the sensor, the larger the body. 5MP probably works fine for printing out family photos, but I've found that most print publications typically look for at least 10MP for submission. Don't get me wrong here- the intention is not to go out and buy a P&S and start submitting all my awesome pictures that I take with it (I own nice DSLR equipment for actual shoots), but if I do catch a great candid shot, I don't want to miss out on potential published work because of low resolution. Noise is noise though, and I agree with you about many of the P&S cameras having plenty of it. I'm looking for a good balance- but I'm finding that I'll have to make some compromises. I wish that someone out there made a camera with a huge sensor, high resolution, the physical size of a cell phone, and priced at $100. I'll probably have to wait another 25 years...

 

[mhiscox]

All things being equal, the larger the sensor and the LOWER the megapixel count, the lower the noise and the higher the quality. Remember, even 5 MP will print a "perfect" 8x10. Noise makes images look worse than lower resolution.

This was a "key learning" for me, as well. One of the advantages of my LX3 is that they did NOT get all the pixels they could out of their sensor. As the DP Review conclusion on the LX3 says:

"It's hard to tell what we're more impressed by - the ambitious lens or the decision to sit back and spectate during this round of the megapixel race. If pixels aren't just to become clutter on your hard drive, they must contain useful information and we've seen too many compact cameras that produce images that need to be down-sized to bring them up to standard. The LX3 may not have the eye-popping resolution of some of its peers but instead it's one of the best high-ISO compact cameras we've seen."

And the LX3 is 10 MP.

Incidentally, I know where you can borrow one to try out.

 

[Overland Hadley]

Hi James,

Have you looked at the G11? It is a little big for a pocket, but it will fit.

 

[Lost Canadian]

James, more megapixels doesn't necessarily correlate to more usable resolution. A 10 megapixel camera can, in many instances, out resolve a 12, 15 etc. Like DiploStrat pointed to, the size of the sensor and the number of photocytes cramed onto it plays a key role here. The smaller the photocyte the higher the likelyhood for resolution robbing diffraction to occur. I can actually see this when I compare images from my 10 megapixel S90 and my 12 megapixel G9. The S90 is capable of pulling out more detail then the G9 despite having a lower megapixel count. Just something to consider.

Happy shopping.

 

[Herbie]

One other factor to consider: CHDK

The Canon Hack Development Kit.

Just about any Canon Powershot (Elph, etc.) can take advantage of this awesome and NON-INVASIVE firmware option. You load CHDK on a memory card, load it (either manually, every time you want to use it, or automatically by toggling the card's write-protect switch) and suddenly you have opened up a whole new world. If you don't like it or want to back out, just power-cycle the camera (and toggle the write-protect switch if you had it set).

Want a P&S that shoots in RAW mode? Want full control over all sensor, aperture, and timer settings just like a DSLR? Want a script engine that lets you write your own scripts to do just about anything?

Here's a Hi-Def timelapse I shot using a $40 used Powershot and CHDK to run a really sweet little Intervalometer script:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq_mUQpZelA

The youtube version is down-res'd a bit. My original video is made up of some 500 frames of 2592x1944 images. It would be National-Geographic-show-off-your-HD-TV-beautiful if it wasn't footage of the loading dock outside my office window.

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

What would be the consensus on a Canon G9? I found a used one locally for $250.