Small turbo diesel options for swap...

ExplorerExplorer

ExplorerExplorer

Adventurer
Exrunner said:
another TN guy! Welcome!

Ive been pondering what kind of deisel I could put into the Cherokee I have and have some of the same concerns you do. 4BT would be sweet, but too big, and I dont think the unibody could handle it all. So Im looking forward to watching what path you go down with this. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've seen a few TN guys on here! Yeah, I see everyone doing 4BT's but the 800lb+ weight and overly tall deck height make for a very cumbersome package in a small/mid-size truck... I'm afraid putting even more weight over the front axle of a vehicle that is already nose heavy can only make things worse... I'm going to use this thread for my brainstorming ideas, so expect it to expand ALOT... Actually my next post is going to be what criteria I consider "acceptable" and what I've found to meet that criteria... BTW - this is all research my swap won;t start till this time next year at the earliest...
 
4Rescue

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
WHy not throw a 1KZ-T and Toyota SFA dual case Drive train (W/2 E-lockers of courses)underneath it if your stuck on the Explorer body. Hard to beat that drive line combo plus it should be pretty easy if you;re thinking of fabing for a completely custom swap anyway. I mean you're not going to find a Diesel to just drop in. You're looking at all custom fab and you're probably going to have to find a T-case then a front axle to match etc... See where i'm going? with the Toyota driveline you know how everything bolts together and all you have to do is fab up the spring hangers and some different crossmembers/tranny mounts (The Explorer DOES have a frame yes no???). That's just my .02

That VM Motori sounds awesome too. Maybe find a way to throw an NV5600 behind it or the stalwhart NV4500 (am I getting my tranny numbers right??? The 4500 is the 5-speed everyone uses behind the 4bt swap right? And the 5600 is the 6speed from newer Dodge trucks???) with an NP205/203 doubler T-case twinsticked. You could run a Wagoneer front Dana44 I belive, unless the diff drop is wrong. I must confess I don't know as much about the domestic stuff outside of Jeeps. That combo would be slick too ...

Of course there's always the good old 4bt... That ones well documented.

And...

I need to stop theorizing on how to spend your money eh ;) ...

Cheers

Dave
 
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ExplorerExplorer

ExplorerExplorer

Adventurer
4Rescue said:
WHy not throw a 1KZ-T and Toyota SFA dual case Drive train (W/2 E-lockers of courses)underneath it if your stuck on the Explorer body. Hard to beat that drive line combo plus it should be pretty easy if you;re thinking of fabing for a completely custom swap anyway. I mean you're not going to find a Diesel to just drop in. You're looking at all custom fab and you're probably going to have to find a T-case then a front axle to match etc... See where i'm going? with the Toyota driveline you know how everything bolts together and all you have to do is fab up the spring hangers and some different crossmembers/tranny mounts (The Explorer DOES have a frame yes no???). That's just my .02

That VM Motori sounds awesome too. Maybe find a way to throw an NV5600 behind it or the stalwhart NV4500 (am I getting my tranny numbers right??? The 4500 is the 5-speed everyone uses behind the 4bt swap right? And the 5600 is the 6speed from newer Dodge trucks???) with an NP205/203 doubler T-case twinsticked. You could run a Wagoneer front Dana44 I belive, unless the diff drop is wrong. I must confess I don't know as much about the domestic stuff outside of Jeeps. That combo would be slick too ...

Of course there's always the good old 4bt... That ones well documented.

And...

I need to stop theorizing on how to spend your money eh ;) ...

Cheers

Dave
Click to expand...


My original plan was a 4 cyl Toy diesel and Toy drivetrain swap, but I'm staying with the TTB... If the engine I find uses an SAE bell pattern I can easily get an adapter (my uncle owns a heavy equipment refurb company in Florida) and bolt up most any transmission I like (probably a Mazda M50D-R2 and NP205 t-case)... I know both of those will fit easily between the Explorer's frame rails (yes, it has a a C-channel frame, that will get fully boxed before the diesel swap)... I believe the VM Motori that is used in the Liberty is an SAE bell pattern with an adapter, so it will work perfectly, just gotta find out for sure :)
 
1

1speedlos

Observer
I'm going with the OM617

Check out this forum- http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I'll be putting the Mercedes OM617 in my TJ eventually. There's a couple of swaps on that forum that include some solid instruction on adapting the rear end to a manual tranny ( http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8362 is a really good one.)
Power's not off the charts, but it'll fit in the Explorer, can be modified with VGT
upgrade, and it's fully mechanical with parts available around the globe. Simple enough that anyone with some time and basic mechanical skills can work on it.
Now, I'm sure the VM diesel is a great engine, but you're going to have to deal with the problem of getting around the electronics. I was told that fooling the CPU on this engine is a bear to deal with. Not to mention the cost!
Don't know much about the International, but don't take the Mercedes off your list yet!

Los
 
ExplorerExplorer

ExplorerExplorer

Adventurer
1speedlos said:
Check out this forum- http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I'll be putting the Mercedes OM617 in my TJ eventually. There's a couple of swaps on that forum that include some solid instruction on adapting the rear end to a manual tranny ( http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8362 is a really good one.)
Power's not off the charts, but it'll fit in the Explorer, can be modified with VGT
upgrade, and it's fully mechanical with parts available around the globe. Simple enough that anyone with some time and basic mechanical skills can work on it.
Now, I'm sure the VM diesel is a great engine, but you're going to have to deal with the problem of getting around the electronics. I was told that fooling the CPU on this engine is a bear to deal with. Not to mention the cost!
Don't know much about the International, but don't take the Mercedes off your list yet!

Los
Click to expand...


I like the Benz because it would probably be the easiest and cheapest to get, but it's way down on power compared to Ford's 4.0L OHV that's in it already (125hp/140ft-lbs vs 170hp/225ft-lbs)... And to get it up above 150hp it looks like a good bit of money would have to be spent, plus I'd rather not have an engine that I have to run ragged to get the power I need from it...
 
Nullifier

Nullifier

Expedition Leader
I am 99% certain that an nv3550 will bolt up to the vm motor. I believe that is what is used behind it in the overseas jeeps.
 
ExplorerExplorer

ExplorerExplorer

Adventurer
Nullifier said:
I am 99% certain that an nv3550 will bolt up to the vm motor. I believe that is what is used behind it in the overseas jeeps.
Click to expand...

This is good to hear... I've heard this also in one other place, but I've also heard that the only way to get it to work is to use the overseas transmission (I believe it's a variant of the NSG-370 6-speed from the 3.7L Jeep), but I'm not sure really... I don't see why I couldn't get an adapter, or have one made... I just need to weigh the pros and cons of having an electronically controlled diesel vs an all mehcanical one... If I can figure out a way to make the VM Motori mechanicale I'm definitely going that route... Otherwise that 2.8/2.0L International is looking better... Once I get the engine I'll be able to tell definitively whether or not a regular SAE to domestic adapter will work (like they use on the 4BT's)...

I called up my great uncle and he said he's got so many 4BT's laying around he could let one go real cheap (he buys broken heavy equipment and refurbishes and resells it)... I really don't want to go 4BT because that would mean I would have to do an SAS and like 6" of lift just to clear the pan... Plus, the 4BT is a rattle trap and this will be driven alot (most everyday, but not as my DD)... I would like to keep it somewhat civilized (a 4BT is loud in a bread truck, I couldn't dare imagine it in a mid-size platform)...

I'll keep lookin and see if I can bolt up the NV3550, if so I need to figure out what to do with the VM's elecs then...
 
Metcalf

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
As far as I know the 2.8 VM CRD Liberty engine will bolt to a small block Mopar bolt pattern. A Dakota 3.9L bellhousing should make the nv3550 bolt up.

The hard part is finding a flywheel for the engine.

This is a thread I started at AEV's forum. By far the most information on the net for the VM motor swap that I have seen in one place. This was taylored to installing the motor in a TJ platform.

http://forum.aev-conversions.com/showthread.php?t=219

Enjoy.

I tell ya. I researched light diesel options A LOT. Generally your best bet overall is going to be the International Sprint 2.8 4.07. There are trade offs, but this is just about the PERFECT engine........trust me on this.
 
ExplorerExplorer

ExplorerExplorer

Adventurer
Metcalf said:
As far as I know the 2.8 VM CRD Liberty engine will bolt to a small block Mopar bolt pattern. A Dakota 3.9L bellhousing should make the nv3550 bolt up.

The hard part is finding a flywheel for the engine.

This is a thread I started at AEV's forum. By far the most information on the net for the VM motor swap that I have seen in one place. This was taylored to installing the motor in a TJ platform.

http://forum.aev-conversions.com/showthread.php?t=219

Enjoy.

I tell ya. I researched light diesel options A LOT. Generally your best bet overall is going to be the International Sprint 2.8 4.07. There are trade offs, but this is just about the PERFECT engine........trust me on this.
Click to expand...

After reading that thread, it seems like the ECM is the biggest problem with the VM Motori engine... I guess the International is the best option...
 
Metcalf

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
The ECM isn't such a big issue unless you want everything to work in a stock jeep platform. If you can use mechanical gauges and don't want cruise control type stuff I think the stock Bosch ECM controlling the VM motor can be run independently.

In the TJ platform its really hard to get the ECM and FCM to talk to the TJ gauge cluster. Wiring and control for the 545 auto is also a nightmare.

If you could source the flywheel you needed and ran a manual transmission like the nv3500 it could be pretty easy.

Yes, go with the 4.07 Sprint. If you are serious about it I would be willing to help source two or more to share on shipping fees. I had a contact at International South America at one time. I was close to being able to get a complete motor from them direct. I still think it would be cheaper to just buy a few out of wrecked S10s in Brazil. It might even be worth the trip down to pull them yourself and crate them up. That is what I was thinking....
 
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