So tired of breaking R180s
- Thread starter proper4wd
- Start date
wreckdiver1321
Overlander
Yikes. :Wow1:
importpower99
New member
I have heard of these items breakign premature but I never understood under what conditions, any info would be appreciated.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
The first one (carrier break) was from irresponsible driving in very deep snow in Vermont. Heavy tire chains, in 2+ feet of snow, lots of wheelspin. The left front tire chain grabbed the cut end of a log that was under the snow and stopped it dead. The torque transfer to the other side broke the carrier instantly.
The second one was rock crawling in Colorado. Lots of steady, even throttle application but was using the traction control system heavily. Frequently had one front wheel well off the ground. When the pinion sheared, I was climbing a basic 20" tall v-ledge with the front tires. It was not dramatic.
The second one was rock crawling in Colorado. Lots of steady, even throttle application but was using the traction control system heavily. Frequently had one front wheel well off the ground. When the pinion sheared, I was climbing a basic 20" tall v-ledge with the front tires. It was not dramatic.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
In my opinion the traction control system lead to the failure of the pinion.
The system works by using the brakes to equalize the force necessary to rotate both front wheels. For example, with one tire on dry rock and one tire in the air, the system has to apply a massive amount of braking force to the wheel in the air in order to equalize the rotational torque.
The byproduct is that the required torque applied to the front driveshaft has to double, because instead of rotating just one wheel at 100 units of resistance, we must now rotate 2x wheels at 100 units of resistance each.
This benefits the carrier because so long as side to side torque is equal, there is minimal stress on the spider gears and carrier.
The downside is that we are now asking the ring gear, pinion gear, front driveshaft, and front transfer case output to transmit 2x the torque actually needed to move the vehicle. The pinion shaft is evidently the weak link.
The system works by using the brakes to equalize the force necessary to rotate both front wheels. For example, with one tire on dry rock and one tire in the air, the system has to apply a massive amount of braking force to the wheel in the air in order to equalize the rotational torque.
The byproduct is that the required torque applied to the front driveshaft has to double, because instead of rotating just one wheel at 100 units of resistance, we must now rotate 2x wheels at 100 units of resistance each.
This benefits the carrier because so long as side to side torque is equal, there is minimal stress on the spider gears and carrier.
The downside is that we are now asking the ring gear, pinion gear, front driveshaft, and front transfer case output to transmit 2x the torque actually needed to move the vehicle. The pinion shaft is evidently the weak link.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
255/85 KM2s and auto trans.
I've considered the M205 but since mine is not an Off Road model I will need to regear the rear axle or swap it out as well.
I'd like to put a 3.73 geared M205 w/ARB in the front and build a Dana 60 for the rear but its a ~$5k investment that could be spent elsewhere.
I've considered the M205 but since mine is not an Off Road model I will need to regear the rear axle or swap it out as well.
I'd like to put a 3.73 geared M205 w/ARB in the front and build a Dana 60 for the rear but its a ~$5k investment that could be spent elsewhere.
I would just throw a Lokka locker in the 180 and call it a day. It would be (relatively) cheap and would mitigate any potential future issues with the carrier or pinion. I've read nothing but good reviews from the guys on thenewx. You won't have the selectable feature like you would with the ARB, but it would still prove tremendously useful on the trail.
Dmski
Adventurer
For what its worth researching a Lokka has me very interested except for the snow aspect. However, after talking with a few people they say its not bad in the snow. But it has to be snow so no using 4wd in the slush/rain sleet or you run into issues. The guy I spoke with is Nixx on thenewx and this is what he messaged me:
"It really makes no difference in 2WD. No difference 2WD on dry pavement, mud or snow. 2WD = no difference.
4WD gets weird in mixed wet pavement/patchy snow conditions. It's... unpleasant. It tends to pick a direction when it hooks up on pavement and pull to that side. Not uncontrollably, but unsettling. These are conditions like you mentioned, you don't really need 4WD, but some like to use it anyway. Well, the Lokka kinda makes the choice for you. Once it's all snow, flip it on, no problems.
Installation isn't bad. Toughest part is the Thrust Washers (shims). I'm not sure what others have been doing, I had to make my own. It's definitely a fair amount of work but there isn't anything really tricky about any of it. Feel free to hit me up with any questions as you're getting ready or if you get stuck in the process."
Just food for thought. I'm in the same camp as you and would totally go Lokka if I knew how it drove in mixed snow and ice, packed powder and slush. But that price tag is nice. Its kinda this or an ARB i guess from the sounds of it. Wish someone built titanium spider gears.
"It really makes no difference in 2WD. No difference 2WD on dry pavement, mud or snow. 2WD = no difference.
4WD gets weird in mixed wet pavement/patchy snow conditions. It's... unpleasant. It tends to pick a direction when it hooks up on pavement and pull to that side. Not uncontrollably, but unsettling. These are conditions like you mentioned, you don't really need 4WD, but some like to use it anyway. Well, the Lokka kinda makes the choice for you. Once it's all snow, flip it on, no problems.
Installation isn't bad. Toughest part is the Thrust Washers (shims). I'm not sure what others have been doing, I had to make my own. It's definitely a fair amount of work but there isn't anything really tricky about any of it. Feel free to hit me up with any questions as you're getting ready or if you get stuck in the process."
Just food for thought. I'm in the same camp as you and would totally go Lokka if I knew how it drove in mixed snow and ice, packed powder and slush. But that price tag is nice. Its kinda this or an ARB i guess from the sounds of it. Wish someone built titanium spider gears.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
A few more photos to add courtesy of my friend Matt.
This is roughly where the pinion sheared:
Camped out at the top of the mountain to repair, about 11500 ft
Repair in progress. Had to strip it down farther than usual due to some stripped bolts on the skid plate.
Most scenic place I've ever repaired a vehicle though, that's for sure
This is roughly where the pinion sheared:
Camped out at the top of the mountain to repair, about 11500 ft
Repair in progress. Had to strip it down farther than usual due to some stripped bolts on the skid plate.
Most scenic place I've ever repaired a vehicle though, that's for sure