Solid state batteries will make electric expedition vehicles practical.

[CappyJax]

Samsung is supposed to be fully into mass production by 2027 with their solid state batteries boasting a volumetric density of 900Wh/L. I did a little math on putting a battery pack in between the frame rails of a LMTV. I don't know what the pack volumetric density will be, but considering that they won't need much in the way of heating or cooling, it may be close to 900Wh/L. If that is the case, a 2MWh battery pack would be doable and would provide over 1,000 miles of range. Charging at 350kW would take over 5 hours, but with that much range, you just park at the charger over night and take advantage of the lower charging prices. Charging 10% to 100% would cost $432 at 0.24 cents per kWh. But maybe you can get a bulk discount.

A 22kW home charger would do it in around 80 hours, but cost you closer to $180.

However, my idea would be to have three layers of solar panels with two layers sliding out on either side giving a total of around 7.5KW. This would give you about 20 miles in range on a nice sunny day. So, you could find a dispersed camping area and stay for 14 days, then have 280 of free range to find another dispersed camping area.

But you have to be rich to consider something like this, because I have read that the batteries will be between $400 and $800 per kWh making the battery pack cost between $800,000 and $1.6M. Ouch! Maybe closer to 2030.

Samsung SDI to start mass production of solid-state batteries in 2027 - electrive.com

Samsung SDI aims to achieve an energy density of 900 Wh/L with its solid-state batteries and believes it is on course to start mass production in 2027. So far, the company has avoided making such a statement on series production readiness.

www.electrive.com

 

[jkam]

When solid state batteries become widely available, they at first will be priced very high.
It will be at least a few years before prices will be at the point of mass adoption.
And by then, other battery technology will be ready to take over.
A constant battle for sure.

 

[driveby]

This is good progress for sure. When samsung introduced their 30TB flash drive ~8 years ago, it was the same price as a Honda Accord. So yeah, time (and market volume) will definitely solve some of the cost issues. Having said that, when the volume increases this will be like NiCaD to LiFePO4 improvements. Can you imagine an induction cooktop in a rig in 2010? Now it's a good idea...

 

[crazysccrmd]

Might be premature to declare induction cooktops a "good idea " when most kitchen stoves on the residential market still aren't. Same in RV's, propane is still dominant and for a simple reason, cost per btu/watt.

Induction requires a ferrous metal pot or plate to heat, and its overall efficiency is dependent on using power that is always converted from a souce into electricity, rather than direct like town gas, propane, or white gas. Adding a level of complication to a device always has a downside, converting power to electricity involves another step in inefficiency. Much like the twice daily coal train that passes my metro to generate electricity in Mobile AL. The EVs there run on coal from Wyoming and the trains have been running for decades, long before Tesla's first unit came off the line. That is a diesel powered train.

Cost pet watt/btu is what it all comes down to.

It’s not that complicated. A house has electricity already and in many areas they all have electric stoves. Induction is just a more efficient version. Many travel trailers are built with solar panels and batteries more than capable of running induction stoves. On a lot of modern trailers/RVs the only propane appliance now is the furnace.

Not sure what EVs, coal and diesel electric locomotives have to do with the rest of the topic.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I'm sorry? Did you say charging from 10% to 100% would cost over $432 and get 1,000 miles? That's $216 for 500 miles

No doubt I'm missing the point here, but call me when the cost isn't two and three times what it cost me now. Then, THEN, I'll be excited.

This brings to mind all the fuss made of so called private space ventures - with ex NASA engineers and astronauts - flew up into the sky real high for a minute. Now they want to go to the moon...Damn, we did that 50 and 60 years ago. Lemme know when something consequential happens.

 

[crazysccrmd]

I'm sorry? Did you say charging from 10% to 100% would cost over $432 and get 1,000 miles? That's $216 for 500 miles

No doubt I'm missing the point here, but call me when the cost isn't two and three times what it cost me now. Then, THEN, I'll be excited.

To be fair he’s talking about that cost/range in a LMTV. With a diesel LMTV getting about 6mpg that’s a cost of $616 to go 1000 miles (paid $3.69 for diesel yesterday).

 

[Ex Animo]

Exciting development in solid state batteries for sure!

Might be premature to declare induction cooktops a "good idea " when most kitchen stoves on the residential market still aren't. Same in RV's, propane is still dominant and for a simple reason, cost per btu/watt.

Induction requires a ferrous metal pot or plate to heat, and its overall efficiency is dependent on using power that is always converted from a souce into electricity, rather than direct like town gas, propane, or white gas. Adding a level of complication to a device always has a downside, converting power to electricity involves another step in inefficiency. Much like the twice daily coal train that passes my metro to generate electricity in Mobile AL. The EVs there run on coal from Wyoming and the trains have been running for decades, long before Tesla's first unit came off the line. That is a diesel powered train.

Cost pet watt/btu is what it all comes down to.

I doubt that many overland rigs and sailboats are being built with anything but induction cooktops these days, the upside to them far outweighs the cost and complexity given that finding propane can be a right pain in the butt in certain parts of the world, is an explosive and fills the room with toxins. A standard "off the lot" travel trailer might come standard with gas but those are far more about economy than world travel.

When talking about efficiency you need to add in the loss of energy when cooking with a flame vs magnets, a lot of energy just goes around the cookware and heats the room not your food.

 

[CappyJax]

I'm sorry? Did you say charging from 10% to 100% would cost over $432 and get 1,000 miles? That's $216 for 500 miles

No doubt I'm missing the point here, but call me when the cost isn't two and three times what it cost me now. Then, THEN, I'll be excited.

This brings to mind all the fuss made of so called private space ventures - with ex NASA engineers and astronauts - flew up into the sky real high for a minute. Now they want to go to the moon...Damn, we did that 50 and 60 years ago. Lemme know when something consequential happens.

That would be fast charging. For charging at home over night, it could cost less than $100.

 

[CappyJax]

Might be premature to declare induction cooktops a "good idea " when most kitchen stoves on the residential market still aren't. Same in RV's, propane is still dominant and for a simple reason, cost per btu/watt.

Induction requires a ferrous metal pot or plate to heat, and its overall efficiency is dependent on using power that is always converted from a souce into electricity, rather than direct like town gas, propane, or white gas. Adding a level of complication to a device always has a downside, converting power to electricity involves another step in inefficiency. Much like the twice daily coal train that passes my metro to generate electricity in Mobile AL. The EVs there run on coal from Wyoming and the trains have been running for decades, long before Tesla's first unit came off the line. That is a diesel powered train.

Cost pet watt/btu is what it all comes down to.

I can't imagine going back to propane. To boil water on our induction cooktop, it takes about 5 minutes pulling 1750W. That is 145Wh of electricity. I can get that back in solar with about 10 minutes of solar power. When I build my next rig, I plan to go all electric with only a backup diesel heater. The hot water will come from an 8000W instant on hot water heater. A shower would use a max of about 400Wh. This is far more efficient than a propane or diesel water tank that is running all the time.

The dream is to be fully electric, rig and all. Park for a couple weeks soaking up solar energy and drive 100 mies or less to a new camping spot.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

I am currently building another rig.
It will have 2.15kW of solar, 480Ah @12V nominal of LiFe04 batteries and 2 inverters for AC (sizes to be determined, but 1 will be running 24/7 and the other will be 3kW+ for the induction cook top (and arc welding etc, etc). Charging direct from the truck alternator will be possible for back up.
There will be a diesel heater (it is a 30 year-old diesel truck) for hot water (10L storage system which is also heated via waste energy from the truck engine) and central heating but both of those will also be via the solar.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Ozarker]

I'm still trying to get pigs to fly!

 

[CappyJax]

Probably a couple Victrons that can put out 8kW each.

 

[DirtWhiskey]

You know what else can be a right pain in the but? An elaborate and delicate electrical system with key functionality (eat, shower, heat) tied to electronics. I'm fine with induction cooktops etc all power to you and all, but I have no desire to ditch propane. Multiple systems, one fuel. Do you all run ELECTRIC space heating? Really? Propane just works. Gas isn't going away. I see induction cooktops as an option on some campers but the vast majority are built around propane still.

Back to solid state batteries. For sure the future, especially SSB tech that uses less rare earth minerals. They will be expensive at first then get cheap quickly. A game changer for sure if it progresses as fast as traditional LiIon tech.

 

[1000arms]

I'm still trying to get pigs to fly!

Maybe you just need enough bread? 😎

Try “When Pigs Fly Bread” at
https://sendbread.com/pages/about-us. 😀

 

[1000arms]

You know what else can be a right pain in the but? An elaborate and delicate electrical system with key functionality (eat, shower, heat) tied to electronics. I'm fine with induction cooktops etc all power to you and all, but I have no desire to ditch propane. Multiple systems, one fuel. Do you all run ELECTRIC space heating? Really? Propane just works. Gas isn't going away. I see induction cooktops as an option on some campers but the vast majority are built around propane still.

Back to solid state batteries. For sure the future, especially SSB tech that uses less rare earth minerals. They will be expensive at first then get cheap quickly. A game changer for sure if it progresses as fast as traditional LiIon tech.

Mini-split heat-exchangers for air conditioning and more-efficient-heating than space-heaters, down to certain (getting even lower) temperatures, could benefit from high-capacity (and hopefully low cost) batteries.

Yes, I am well aware that a truck cap, propane stove (with 20 pound tank to avoid freezing as easily as the one-pound cans) and a super-insulated cooler (external insulation can work wonders) is a low cost way to travel. ... Leaving out cooler-bound ice-bottles to refreeze on cold nights (and sleeping with one’s water to prevent it freezing), or buying ice in warm areas. 😀

However, it seems to me that there are more and more fire bans (including propane stoves etc), and from what I have read recently about the hazards of burning propane inside, the induction burner does have my attention. 😀