Some questions about photos, photo rights, watermarking, etc

[evldave]

ok, so the last few years, I've been taking photos for a local skate competition and a local skate park. It was one of those things where I went to take some pictures (I'd never taken any photos like that before so I figured it would be a good learning experience)...well the organizers approached me and asked if they could have the pictures, so I said sure, since I'm not a pro, and they were pretty crappy pics...as a thanks, they gave me a t-shirt, i gave them a couple dvds with 2,000 or so pics on them.

...fast forward 3 years, I've been doing the same each year (I get a t-shirt, they get the pics I take)...I'm a much better skateboarding photographer, and also take pics of the bike comp that happens the same day. There's not paperwork or anything, it's just one of those random things where I do something for them, they give me a t-shirt.

This year, I took 4,200 pics (in 6 hours!), probably about 100 are simply fantastic...not because of me, but when you hold down the button, you are bound to get at least a few good pics

Anyways, I'm going to give the pics to the organizers of the event, but I also want to submit some of the pictures to some skateboarding and biking mags, I've shown a few to some local pro boarders around here and they are all "wow, those are amazing pics" a good little ego boost for me, but now I have some questions for you experts here:

Are these my pictures to submit? Yes, I took them, but I also get some minor compensation, a t-shirt, so does that mean the organizers 'own' the pictures and any potential rights?

I haven't bothered to watermark any of my pictures, but I see here and elsewhere even casual pictures all seem to have a watermark. Should I watermark before or after I give the pics to the organizers? I've had a few other pictures I've taken show up in photo contests and stuff, and am thinking of creating my own website/name...should I do that first, then watermark the pics, then post them or give them to the organizers? As a note, these are really cool guys who run a bike/skate shop, they aren't lawyers or money-grubbers, just honest guys who use my pics, I'm not interested in getting all 'legal' on them (i'd rather just give them the pics than cause a fight with them), but want to get some feedback on how to approach this


Anyone know of any resources or have any suggestions for how to submit these pics to magazines? Should I do a write-up along w/the pics? I doubt I'll ever be a pro photographer, but I'm at least gonna try and go the 'serious hobby' route and submit some work, but to where and how?

Thanks a bunch in advance for any help/ideas!

 

[photoman]

There are over 100 potential answers to your questions but here are a few based on my philosophy and knowledge.

Copyright- as the photographer you retain the copyright unless you sign it over in some capacity. This can be an agreement or a contract depending on the location and the shoot.

Watermarking- watermarking has two purposes which depending on who you talk to can be effective or not effective at all. Watermarking can deter people from copying your photos to print or use elsewhere without providing credit to you. It slightly deters theft but in no way eliminates the possibility of images being copied or used without your knowledge and permission. Watermarking also gets your name out there (puts a name to your style of shooting) and can direct people to your website.

As far as your arrangement with the event you have been shooting:
Just be upfront and honest with them. Let them know that now you have improved your photography, in large part from shooting their events you want to make a few changes to your arrangement and want to give them some notice.

If you like shooting the events and don't mind allowing them to use your images for promotion- just let them know you are going to start watermarking the images so you can get your name out there. Ask them to include your name and website on their mailings or a hyperlink on their website so people know where they can go to see more images or purchase prints. Let them know you will continue to shoot and give them images at no cost if they can help you out as well. if they are good people this will not be an issue at all.


Let them know you are working on getting some images published which will help their event as well.




I do not have any experience in submitting to magazines but I do think if you had an article or at least some brief notes of each picture your chances would increase. You might also check out local magazines and newspapers as potential publication.

 

[Overdrive]

It's neat that things are progressing this way for you. More power to you!

Instead of giving the organizers 2,000+ pics, why don't you pick out the hundred or so best ones, watermark those, and give them only those? That way, you have some control of what they put "out there" with your name on it. When you hand them the CD, you could say something like "Oh, by the way, I watermarked these because I found they were being used in some other places, and I want my name attached to the pics."

Since you are thinking of starting a website, make sure your watermark references your website. I.E., don't make the watermark "copyright EvlDave" and your website "SkateboardingPhotography.com" Instead, make the watermark "copyright www.SkateboardingPhotography.com" so people can find your website quickly.

Good luck!

 

[adrenaline503]

What software (mac) do you use to add a watermatk? Any chance iphoto has that function somewhere?

 

[8850]

Wow, this thread has some great advice! Yet another benefit of this website is getting advice from folks who have been there and done that.

I thought watermarking would be very easy with iPhoto but I haven't been able to find a way to do it. Maybe I'm naive but adding a watermark should be a standard feature.

I have added watermarks using Aperture and Photoshop but you'll need to buy software. You might want to try the Aperture 30day free trial from the Apple site to see if you like it. Google how to add a watermark with Aperture for good step-by-step directions.

 

[dmacxj]

I use Phatch to add watermarks and a batch resize my photos. It's open source so it doesn't cost anything. I have not tried it on a mac yet but I do know they have a download for it on thier site.

http://photobatch.stani.be/

 

[AYIAPhoto]

...fast forward 3 years, I've been doing the same each year (I get a t-shirt, they get the pics I take)...I'm a much better skateboarding photographer, and also take pics of the bike comp that happens the same day. There's not paperwork or anything, it's just one of those random things where I do something for them, they give me a t-shirt.

First question. Is it a public skate park or one you pay admission to? If it is being held in a city owned park designated for public use and anyone can walk up and shoot, you own the rights until you choose otherwise. If you are paying to enter but allowed to photograph the event as a spectator but not contracted photographer, the photos might not be allowed to be sold. It can get a bit tricky.

probably about 100 are simply fantastic...

Until sure of your rights, I would hold those photos. While some might say that is dishonest, you are not getting paid. A T-shirt that is probably also thrown out to the crowd as swag is not compensation.

Anyways, I'm going to give the pics to the organizers of the event, but I also want to submit some of the pictures to some skateboarding and biking mags,

Talking to the promoter is your best bet. They are already getting free photos, and if you credit event/organizers, it is free publicity for them.

Are these my pictures to submit? Yes, I took them, but I also get some minor compensation, a t-shirt, so does that mean the organizers 'own' the pictures and any potential rights?

Don't take the T-shirt. At least not until you determine your rights. You own those pictures right up until you do something with them or receive compensation. However owning them and having full rights to a persons or facility's likeness are two different things.

Should I watermark before or after I give the pics to the organizers? I've had a few other pictures I've taken show up in photo contests and stuff,

Always watermark photos you plan to do anything with more than show your friends/hang on your wall. As to your photos showing up in photo contest, that is blatant infringement. One advantage of shooting raw is in the event someone tries to take credit for an image you produced, you have a raw file with exif data while they only have a jpeg or tiff. Watermarks can be removed or hidden(or simply cropped) but raw files only come from a camera.

and am thinking of creating my own website/name...should I do that first, then watermark the pics, then post them or give them to the organizers?

Decide on a name, start a site(even if just a blog) and then watermark the images.

As a note, these are really cool guys who run a bike/skate shop, they aren't lawyers or money-grubbers, just honest guys who use my pics,

What are they using them for? Are they blowing some up as posters to promote events or are they simply putting them up on their website.

I'm not interested in getting all 'legal' on them

Nor should you need to. As a small business they should be more than happy to accept a little free promotion.

Anyone know of any resources or have any suggestions for how to submit these pics to magazines? Should I do a write-up along w/the pics?I doubt I'll ever be a pro photographer, but I'm at least gonna try and go the 'serious hobby' route and submit some work, but to where and how?

Resources to submit photos I can't help with, but I would definitely suggest doing a write-up to go along with the photos. I would think the best solution would be to send not only watermarked, but extensively watermarked photos, along with a write up to the magazines with a short letter explaining your intentions(if they decide to run with it you can then send un-marked photos). Also not sending the same photos to multiple magazines is a good start. If by chance more than one decides to run your photos and write-up, they will more than likely want to purchase the rights to the photos and you can't sell to both. Switching photos after submission will earn you a bad reputation before you even start.

Edited to add:

What software (mac) do you use to add a watermatk? Any chance iphoto has that function somewhere?

I use GimpShop(open source and free, available for both Mac and PC) for photo editing and watermarking. It's basically free PhotoShop without stealing a bootleg version. It doesn't do a few thing PS does, but for photos as opposed to creating images from scratch it works fine.

 

[evldave]

ok, so an update, thanks for all the feedback on this...

I just registered www.prophotopnw.com (for more normal pics) and www.evldavephotography.com (for my adventure/skate/bike pics)

I'm gonna watermark them all before posting to my websites (which will all likely just be like a blog w/links to a photohosting website)

I'm gonna go ahead and give all the pics (watermarked) to the skate organizers, mostly because I think they'll pass them around and will get me some web traffic (I won't give them the pics until the websites are at least set up somewhat). Plus they are trying to grow the skate competition, so it'll just help if they've got good pics.

Still not sure how to submit to magazines, but the owner of a new indoor skate park is my son's friend's dad's business partner (whew) and he wants me to take pics for their ads, etc...so I guess that's a start!

Now just have to figure out a couple logos (traditional for the prophotopnw and extreme for the evldave site), a friend of mine used to work as a graphic artist for an animated porn video game manufacturer, so he's gonna help me with the logos.

...plus business cards to hand out while taking pictures, and a few write-ups...anything else to get my hobby going?

 

[AYIAPhoto]

Still not sure how to submit to magazines, but the owner of a new indoor skate park is my son's friend's dad's business partner (whew) and he wants me to take pics for their ads, etc...so I guess that's a start!

As some one suggested in a different thread, pick up a copy of Business and Legal Forms for Photographers by Tad Crawford.

...plus business cards to hand out while taking pictures, and a few write-ups...anything else to get my hobby going?

There are a few online services that print cards cheap or even free. Any small print shop will do a run of 1k or so card rather cheap. Don't bother with the homemade cards. Most computer printers will run out of ink before you finish half a pack of the perforated card material(on any good looking card, just name and number aint a problem). Plus feeding that paper is a pain, it never seems to feed right.
Good luck with the venture, and remember to have fun.

 

[sjk99]

You might also check out Zazzle.com as another channel for people to consume your photos through. Could be the parents of the skaters who want a coffee mug or t-shirt with their kid on it or anyone who thinks your photos are cool. Create a store front on Zazzle & put that on the business card you hand out.

 

[nwoods]

Smugmug will add a watermark to your images, and you can sell the images (both print and/or digital format) without the watermark, all triggered on the fly. It's slick, but not cheap, but you absolutely do get what you pay for.