Sounds like Stellantis is on the right path.

[skrypj]

Right, but that ain't 1/2 ton specs... that's 3/4 at least.

This sounds to me a like heavy duty towing rig... a diesel replacement. It's going to be heavy, and it's going to be expensive. No way in hell will this be a "standard" drivetrain.

It's designed for people who A) want electric most of the time for short trips, but B) also want to tow heavy and have a long range. Ideally this would be good for someone who tows and hauls locally and long distance regularly. The characteristics of diesel with some electric fuel savings? Otherwise just run a diesel... and I kinda think the target market would favor sticking with the diesel.

You just described me. And probably every other half ton owner who tows a travel trailer.

I think there is serious benefit to the electric drive while towing but the issue has always been range. Ideally, battery tech would improve that but I just dont see that happening anytime in the next 10 years.

Then, even if the battery tech does improve and we double the energy density, how do you charge up a 300 or 400 kwh battery in a reasonable amount of time? You would need a heinous amount of power to do that in 1 hour or less. A 240V 50 amp connection at a camp ground would take like 30 hours of continuous charging.

So I guess I see this truck as the only real solution that lets you get the electric powertrain and still have it be useful towing.

 

[Todd780]

You just described me. And probably every other half ton owner who tows a travel trailer.

I think there is serious benefit to the electric drive while towing but the issue has always been range. Ideally, battery tech would improve that but I just dont see that happening anytime in the next 10 years.

Then, even if the battery tech does improve and we double the energy density, how do you charge up a 300 or 400 kwh battery in a reasonable amount of time? You would need a heinous amount of power to do that in 1 hour or less. A 240V 50 amp connection at a camp ground would take like 30 hours of continuous charging.

So I guess I see this truck as the only real solution that lets you get the electric powertrain and still have it be useful towing.

Describes me too. This what Ford should have done with the PowerBoost in my opinion. If that was an option when I bought my truck, that would have been what I bought.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Describes me too. This what Ford should have done with the PowerBoost in my opinion. If that was an option when I bought my truck, that would have been what I bought.

Until you saw the price….😆

 

[Todd780]

Until you saw the price….😆

I didn't think pricing was released yet for the Ramcharger?

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I didn't think pricing was released yet for the Ramcharger?

I was just commenting on the recent trend in trucks- wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 6 figures….

 

[rruff]

I didn't think pricing was released yet for the Ramcharger?

No, but it will have a complete BEV drive system including a 95kWh battery pack, with the addition of a complete ICE system and generator. I'd expect it to be more than a comparable diesel, but maybe not a huge amount? Would $10k more than a diesel 1 ton seem reasonable?

The more concerning thing to me is the complexity, and the fact that it involves a lot of new tech for the company. Just a lot more to go wrong, from a company that isn't noted for reliability.

 

[nickw]

They realized that a plug in vehicle is not the answer for most truck owners, so they did some research and came up with a truck that uses proven technology, an I.C.E. that only provides power for the electric motor propulsion, just like the railroads do to move massive amounts of freight without stopping to recharge frequently.

This may be the perfect way to transition to EV's for now, until battery and charging capabilities are improved enough that I.C.E. technology is no longer the better method.

With electric vehicle sales growth slowing, Stellantis Ram brand has an answer: An onboard charger

One of the biggest reasons people cite when saying they won't buy an electric vehicle is range anxiety, the fear of running out of juice on the road with nowhere to recharge. Stellantis' Ram brand may have an answer for that, especially for people who need a truck to haul or tow things. It's...

news.yahoo.com

Sorry if this has been brought up but it's not quite like a locomotive. Locomotives don't have a battery bank for powering the motors and the reason why a diesel/gas-electric like a locomotive isn't used is that they don't do well in transitioning from low to high load scenarios....like quick accelerations, hard braking and back to quick accelerations.....not sure of the technical reasons behind that. Locomotives basically run at a constant or very close to it power figure, road going cars are all over. A battery bank in a car can easily buffer the power needs vs relying strictly on the engine to produce the power directly.

 

[NevadaLover]

Sorry if this has been brought up but it's not quite like a locomotive. Locomotives don't have a battery bank for powering the motors and the reason why a diesel/gas-electric like a locomotive isn't used is that they don't do well in transitioning from low to high load scenarios....like quick accelerations, hard braking and back to quick accelerations.....not sure of the technical reasons behind that. Locomotives basically run at a constant or very close to it power figure, road going cars are all over. A battery bank in a car can easily buffer the power needs vs relying strictly on the engine to produce the power directly.

Yeah, I meant the fact that instead of plug-in garbage, they kept the I.C.E. for generating power, not for driving the wheels.

 

[driveby]

The more I think about this the more I’d rather have the smallest ICE needed and the largest battery. 1L out of the parts bin in EU or something. The genny will run at the best torque for power and only as long as needed. A decent 48V PTO alternator etc. But I’m guessing “truck guys” won’t buy a 1L in a truck. Sounds bad especially from the company that brings us the HellCat and Demon. It’d be called the “MouseCharger” in a heartbeat I’m sure.

 

[skrypj]

The more I think about this the more I’d rather have the smallest ICE needed and the largest battery. 1L out of the parts bin in EU or something. The genny will run at the best torque for power and only as long as needed. A decent 48V PTO alternator etc. But I’m guessing “truck guys” won’t buy a 1L in a truck. Sounds bad especially from the company that brings us the HellCat and Demon. It’d be called the “MouseCharger” in a heartbeat I’m sure.

The engine needs to be able to produce the average output of the expected load on the truck. If you plan on towing and using those 28 gallons of fuel, you are likely going to be using close to that 130 kw of generator output.

My guess is they wont run the engine at low load. It will either be run continuously at high load when towing or maybe gets turned on and off as needed when not towing. A gas motor is most efficient near high load where the throttle plate is wide open, eliminating pumping losses.

Also, even though the pentastar is rated for like 300hp in other applications, thats at like 6500 rpm. I bet they run this motor at 3500-4000 rpm max to make the 130 kw/180hp. Its probably cammed and tuned to make peak torque in the mid range so it can kinda just loaf along. While smaller engines could make the power needed, they would probably need lots of boost or lots of RPM to do it and thats annoying. You wouldnt want a 1L screaming away at 7000 rpm for 4 hours straight while you tow.

 

[jkam]

I think diesel fuel is a must for the world to operate.
When things get worse, and they will, I think diesel will be the fuel to have.
Shortages will happen with gasoline first, having a diesel powered vehicle
might be worth having, no matter the price.
And when all is said and done, I also thing that the crazy emissions required now will be ignored.

 

[JaSAn]

I think diesel fuel is a must for the world to operate.
When things get worse, and they will, I think diesel will be the fuel to have . . .

You are correct: diesel power will be around for decades. The problem is will the government restrict who can obtain it, so you might not be able to purchase for personal use?

Shortages will happen with gasoline first, having a diesel powered vehicle might be worth having, no matter the price . . .

I used to think that but a conversation with a petroleum engineer changed my thinking. When a barrel of crude is separated into its constituent parts along with other stuff you get 19 gallons of gasoline and 11 gallons of diesel.
You have to do something with the gasoline:

• you can let it evaporate into the atmosphere
• you can burn it as a waste gas
• you can dump it
  • or
• you can sell it. And you have to keep the cost low enough so someone will buy it.

Eventually someone will develop other uses for gasoline but that will take investment, time, and manpower. Until then gasoline will be available and possibly cheaper and easier to obtain than diesel.

 

[Todd780]

No, but it will have a complete BEV drive system including a 95kWh battery pack, with the addition of a complete ICE system and generator. I'd expect it to be more than a comparable diesel, but maybe not a huge amount? Would $10k more than a diesel 1 ton seem reasonable?

The more concerning thing to me is the complexity, and the fact that it involves a lot of new tech for the company. Just a lot more to go wrong, from a company that isn't noted for reliability.

No clue. Never really thought about the price in those terms. Personally, I guess just wait and see if the price makes in a player for me or a no go. Lots of factors for me to consider.

 

[nickw]

The more I think about this the more I’d rather have the smallest ICE needed and the largest battery. 1L out of the parts bin in EU or something. The genny will run at the best torque for power and only as long as needed. A decent 48V PTO alternator etc. But I’m guessing “truck guys” won’t buy a 1L in a truck. Sounds bad especially from the company that brings us the HellCat and Demon. It’d be called the “MouseCharger” in a heartbeat I’m sure.

"....run at the best torque for power"....those are two very different things, I think you were alluding to the most fuel efficient RPM? Reality is torque in generators like this is largely irrelevant - simplistically horsepower is all you'll need and I'd guess you'd want the smallest / lightest engine with the most power....which is exactly why turbines *could* make a ton of sense in these applications....but they don't do well in start/stop applications that I know of, but I'm not tuned into the latest tech here.

Same concept as a F1 engine powering a D11 Cat - power is power, torque, especially in a generator application is (conceptually) irrelevant unless you wanna get into power / fuel curves, RPM limitations, durability requirements, etc.

 

[nickw]

The engine needs to be able to produce the average output of the expected load on the truck. If you plan on towing and using those 28 gallons of fuel, you are likely going to be using close to that 130 kw of generator output.

My guess is they wont run the engine at low load. It will either be run continuously at high load when towing or maybe gets turned on and off as needed when not towing. A gas motor is most efficient near high load where the throttle plate is wide open, eliminating pumping losses.

Also, even though the pentastar is rated for like 300hp in other applications, thats at like 6500 rpm. I bet they run this motor at 3500-4000 rpm max to make the 130 kw/180hp. Its probably cammed and tuned to make peak torque in the mid range so it can kinda just loaf along. While smaller engines could make the power needed, they would probably need lots of boost or lots of RPM to do it and thats annoying. You wouldnt want a 1L screaming away at 7000 rpm for 4 hours straight while you tow.

If it's small enough you could probably insulate it reasonably well. Those Honda gensets are pretty darn quite...maybe some sort of sound cancellation. I could see something sim to a street bike motor, smooth, short stroke massively insulated. I'd say 1000cc (150 hp) but you'd probably have to de-rate them so they'd hold together under continuous power so it may need to be a 1500cc (say 150hp) engine built to an industrial standard.....or maybe a simple rotary engine.

If it was small enough, light enough and was simply connected you could swap out pretty quick so service intervals could include a powertrain swap and replace at say 50k mile intervals on a skid mounted platform.