Spooling new synth line on winch?

[Master-Pull]

I'll see if I can dig up a pic of some kind.

When using a "daisy chain" in a winch extension for HiLift winching, the "over-laps" or "loops" in the daisy chain appear to heat/burn/crush the rope.

That probably confused you more - I'll have to find a pic...

When the rope is crushed does it turn flat or square? I have seen some ropes that have been mangled and crushed in all different types of shapes. I understand what you are using, but I can't see how/ why it would do that to the rope.

-Alex

 

[ntsqd]

In my testing of knots in syn winch line I noticed that the failure zones were always "melted" looking. Sounds like you might be on the verge of such a failure. The place where the line always parted was directly under the tight wrap around the line nearest to either end of the knot.

 

[Master-Pull]

In my testing of knots in syn winch line I noticed that the failure zones were always "melted" looking. Sounds like you might be on the verge of such a failure. The place where the line always parted was directly under the tight wrap around the line nearest to either end of the knot.

Can you send me some pictures of this, also what knots are you using on what lines? I would like to test some different knots on some scrap pieces of rope we have lying around to see what happens to them. Our Superline XD has a knot on the thimble end, because of the braided cover we cannot splice this rope.

-Alex

 

[emmodg]

Can you send me some pictures of this, also what knots are you using on what lines? I would like to test some different knots on some scrap pieces of rope we have lying around to see what happens to them. Our Superline XD has a knot on the thimble end, because of the braided cover we cannot splice this rope.

-Alex

Daisy chain(chain sinnet) a rope or cord, pull on it and observe where the rope/cord presses upon itself - that is where the poly seems to "flatten". If you "choke" the end loop upon the running end of the rope with a toggle of some kind it really seems to do some funny stuff there... I'll try and find some pics.

 

[ntsqd]

Can you send me some pictures of this, also what knots are you using on what lines? I would like to test some different knots on some scrap pieces of rope we have lying around to see what happens to them. Our Superline XD has a knot on the thimble end, because of the braided cover we cannot splice this rope.

-Alex

Unfortunately there were no pictures taken. I was working with Amsteel in the 1/4" size as I wanted to test the knots without getting into huge loads to break the line if that was going to happen.
My test set-up was a Warn 8742 on the front of a SBC powered, D60/14bff'd FJ40 and the anchor was a SRW Crewcab 1 ton service bed Chevy truck in park with the p-brake on and a chock behind the RR tire. Since we were testing knots any failure was a failure and knowing the tension at failure was deemed not necessary. Besides I had no access to such a tool.

Basically every knot that I tried failed the line. No knot worked. I used every common climber's knot used for joining ropes known to me (Figure 8 variations, Grapevine, 'Water" knot, etc.). I did not do any research of knots unknown to me as the likelihood of my remembering them sometime in the future isn't great.

What did work, and work surprisingly well, was a simple 'S' weave where the end completely pierced the line's weave every time it crossed it. As I recall it required a minimum of 4 crosses for the last cross to not show pull-out strain. We were still able to fail the line, but it did not fail in the simple splice, but rather in random locations.

 

[Master-Pull]

What did work, and work surprisingly well, was a simple 'S' weave where the end completely pierced the line's weave every time it crossed it. As I recall it required a minimum of 4 crosses for the last cross to not show pull-out strain. We were still able to fail the line, but it did not fail in the simple splice, but rather in random locations.

That sounds very similar to a way we can splice, but don't prefer. When possible a brummel splice our ideal splice of choice, see steps (http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/12-Strand_AmSteel-Blue_Whoopie_Sling_Splice_2008.pdf) 1C-E for a few pictures of it. I have done what you have mentioned in the past, usually if you pass the rope through twice, then tuck about 6 inches of tail (what you passed through the rope) into the line it will hold. When the line pulls tight the strands push against each other creating enough friction to hold the tail and the entire splice in place, and keep it from pulling apart.

-Alex

 

[ntsqd]

What I was specifically looking for was an emergency field repair that could be done right now with little to no tools required. It would not be something that I would recommend as a service splice, only as an emergency splice. We ran out of line to continue testing with, and my help (the owner of both trucks) was starting to loose interest in the project by the time that we tried the lateral S weave splice or I would have tried further options.

 

[michaelgroves]

That sounds very similar to a way we can splice, but don't prefer. When possible a brummel splice our ideal splice of choice, see steps (http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/12-Strand_AmSteel-Blue_Whoopie_Sling_Splice_2008.pdf) 1C-E for a few pictures of it. I have done what you have mentioned in the past, usually if you pass the rope through twice, then tuck about 6 inches of tail (what you passed through the rope) into the line it will hold. When the line pulls tight the strands push against each other creating enough friction to hold the tail and the entire splice in place, and keep it from pulling apart.

-Alex

It's interesting that Amsteel rate that sling at only 60% of the rope strength! It's not obvious to me where it would break, either, unless the sling was used around something small in diameter.

 

[Redline]

I glad you shared that, I have wondered why your lines have the knot on the thimble end instead of the 'cleaner appearing' splice that is so common.

I guess if the line doesn't break there is no concern about making a field splice but if it does break then a field fix is not really possible?

snip........ Our Superline XD has a knot on the thimble end, because of the braided cover we cannot splice this rope.

-Alex

 

[Master-Pull]

What I was specifically looking for was an emergency field repair that could be done right now with little to no tools required. It would not be something that I would recommend as a service splice, only as an emergency splice. We ran out of line to continue testing with, and my help (the owner of both trucks) was starting to loose interest in the project by the time that we tried the lateral S weave splice or I would have tried further options.

Understandable, I was just pointing out a different way to splice. With a ball point pen and a roll of tape you can do the field splice that you mentioned, the important part is tucking the tail in (where the pen and tape come in). If you do this the pressure of the strands will hold the splice in place better. Some of the guys from Samson Ropes have told me that in the past they have spliced eyes but just tucking the tail (over 1 foot of it), I wouldn't recommend this though. If you guys ever have a line break and need it spliced send it into Master-Pull and we will get you all fixed up.

-Alex

 

[Master-Pull]

It's interesting that Amsteel rate that sling at only 60% of the rope strength! It's not obvious to me where it would break, either, unless the sling was used around something small in diameter.

I am not sure why they do that either, there is some strength lost in a splice but it shouldn't be that much. I will try to find more information on this subject.

-Alex

 

[Master-Pull]

I glad you shared that, I have wondered why your lines have the knot on the thimble end instead of the 'cleaner appearing' splice that is so common.

I guess if the line doesn't break there is no concern about making a field splice but if it does break then a field fix is not really possible?

You can splice the XD like a normal 12 strand rope, but to do this you would have to cut the cover where you wanted to splice it. But then again, if you break a XD line the cover is already torn apart so no worries there.

-Alex

 

[cactusjk]

Old thread but good info. I continue to see differing recommendations on how to initially spool synthetic (Viking 3/8") line on. Some clarification is greatly appreciated.

For the initial layer is it best to do that by hand and not under load?

After the initial layer is it best to do loaded using another vehicle as the anchor in park and let the winch pull the vehicle with the winch towards the anchor?

 

[unseenone]

I am very happy with my Masterpull lines, thank you!! the Masterpull user is not appear active anymore, but they honor the discount if you call them. They went above and beyond with advice and provided me with precisely what I wanted.

 

[cactusjk]

Still looking for some help.

Old thread but good info. I continue to see differing recommendations on how to initially spool synthetic (Viking 3/8") line on. Some clarification is greatly appreciated.

For the initial layer is it best to do that by hand and not under load?

After the initial layer is it best to do loaded using another vehicle as the anchor in park and let the winch pull the vehicle with the winch towards the anchor?