colodak
Adventurer
I was looking at a 10,000 lb rated rope that I may pull the trigger on then, it'll be almost 2x, but my winch is only 8K and I'm not planning to replace it anytime soon.
Spooling Synthetic (with pics)
- Thread starter Master-Pull
- Start date
I was looking at a 10,000 lb rated rope that I may pull the trigger on then, it'll be almost 2x, but my winch is only 8K and I'm not planning to replace it anytime soon.
Ray Hyland
Expedition Leader
I always thought you only had to do it that tightly with steel rope. Thanks, I will do that with the synthetic too.
Cheers
You also need to factor in the increased loads for things such as inclines, the vaccum effect of being stuck in mud, possibly needing to get up over an obstacle. This is why the 2-3 times suggestion is used. 10,000 does fall in just under the 2 times and 5/16 would put you between 2 and 3. A good read here.
But if you are looking at a 10,000 rated line, then 5/16 Dyneema would suit you fine as well. And treat anything you put on there with the same safety precautions you would steel cable.
Actually, its the opposite. With wire rope there is more friction involved when its wrapped around the drum. So it will less likely to move while on the drum. Synthetic rope is inherently slippery and will slide around on the drum as tension is applied, looking to fill the voids that will be created once the line is put under tension. As the line is loaded, it will decrease in diameter as the braid is pulled tight and the void in the center of the line disappears. When this happens it creates space between subsequent wraps for overlaying wraps to fall into.
The lack of friction and synthetic rope is the reason knots will degrade it more than say poly or nylon. The lack of friction allows the knot to be pulled tighter than a normal rope, decreasing the bend radius in the knot and leading to failure.
Master-Pull
Supporting Sponsor
If he is going with a basic/ Amsteel Blue type rope then yes 5/16ths will be too light. But 5/16ths Superline is rated to 21,000 lbs, more then Amsteel Blue 3/8ths. So I would say run some 5/16ths Superline on the winch and call it good, you can fit more and it is a more durable rope.
What Opie has said about spooling the rope on tighter is true, we try to get ours on pretty tight either by winching up a hill or using the parking brake.
-Alex
1911
Expedition Leader
That's exactly what I do with my 8274.
Master-Pull
Supporting Sponsor
If there is no internal drum brake then the winch will not heat up so you could use the nylon sheathing as a line protector.
-Alex
JamesDowning
Explorer
Either way the sheathing isn't necessary, so long as you aren't winching out under power for long distances. If you pull your rope out by hand, your brake shouldn't be creating any heat.
Also, does the nylon sheathing really reduce temperatures any? The 1/6" of insulation it provides seems like it would transmit the temperatures to the core line pretty quickly. Have you guys put a thermocouple in the line to see? It would be an interesting study.
Regarding the line pulling down through the resting layers, that always seems to happen to some extent with my lines, no matter the initial wrap tension on the line. It doesn't seem to be a problem though... it just puts a temporary kink in the lines that get flattened. I'll just pull the line out fully, work the kink by hand, then re-spool it.
Master-Pull
Supporting Sponsor
The nylon seems to help, we have had lines that had no sheathing come back melted and flattened whereas the nylon covered line is in better shape. Either way we have a new product that provides much more heat protection. I have it on my winch and we are just going through some final checks before it gets released for purchase.
-Alex
-Alex
Correct.
In short, no. All it does is prevent the line from melting to the drum. The heat will transfer through the sleeve to the line.
Samson has done some rather less than scientific testing, albeit testing, regarding the long term heat effects on regular SK75 as well as the fibers ability to conduct heat.. Now granted the purpose of the study was to find what the effects of ambient temps were on the rope, but I feel they did some testing that is relevant to winch use as well...
http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/Synthetic_HMPE_Rope_Applications_in_Hot_Climates.pdf
Alex, Id be interested in seeing a photo of a line that's come back to you in this condition. When loaded and under wraps on the drum, SK75 can take on the appearance of being flattened and glazed.
The flattening has no effect on the strength.
The shiny sheen that can appear on the rope is not necessarily due to being melted, or "glazed." SK75 has a tendency to look glazed when its been run across itself and compressed. It too, has no effect on strength but I say that with some apprehension. What may be a normal trait for SK75, and actual glazing or melting are a fine line. If you can work the line in your hand back to normal, its not melted or glazed.
Master-Pull
Supporting Sponsor
It's not the melted or glazed lines we know what those look like. It's when the rope comes back and the strands are beginning to melt together or melt onto the winch drum. This is usually something that happens to competition guys because they are alot harder on everything they use. I don't have any of those ropes sitting around here, we usually toss them when we are out at events because its not worth carrying them home in the condition they come back to us in.
-Alex
-Alex
Stumpalump
Expedition Leader
Mine was spooled when duct tape was recomended to cover the first layer. It works ok and I get the resistance of the tape if I try to pull it out too far. What I don't like about yours Alex is the picture of the winch with all the line spooled on. It shows what a neat job somebody did. This is great for a steel cable but not so much for a synthetic. To spool a synthetic, chaotic and criss cross is the way too go. Synthetic is just so soft that it will burry it's self between the wraps and it gets wedged really tight when loaded. So tight you almost can't unspool it. When you power out it wraps itself backwards and is a mess especially when you need it in dire situation. If it's all criss crossed it can't burry down and unspools easy. It does not look as nice but in real world it's a better way spool synthetic. Maybe with the nice XD covered line you offer it's not an issue. That stuff is so nice it makes synthetic line look bad.
