Sprinter vs Ford/GM Vans

[Marauder_Pilot]

In shopping for a full-size van to convert into an expedition van, I've been noticing a lot of Sprinters for sale, alongside the usual Ford and GM vans. At first glance, they're quite a bit more expensive (Generally about 30% more, all else being equal), but when you look closer, they seem to be a little better-suited for my purposes-they've got more headroom, a lower load floor, the cockpit looks a bit more comfortable, and every one I've seen has come with the diesel, giving them quite a bit better gas mileage.

On the other hand, they're harder to get parts for (Even if you can take them to any Dodge dealer as well as Merc dealers, I doubt either has as many parts on-hand as Ford and GM dealers do for their vans, just on account of sales numbers alone), quite a bit more expensive to own and insure, and they don't seem to be as wide in the back.

Anybody who's owned, or spent time in, both, care to comment? I know the Ford and GM ones well, but I've only been in a Sprinter once and didn't drive it, so I don't have much basis for comparison.

 

[Cole]

Well, since nobody else has replied after 76 views. I'll at least toss in $0.02 worth.

I've never owned a domestic van myself. Spent lots of time in them as a kid (70s-80s) as my grandparents had conversion vans. So I can't really comment too much on the interior size. Parts though should be fairly similar to any domestic pickup, of which I've had many.

I've also owned a dozen German cars! Still own six of them including my Sprinter and VW Eurovan.

The Sprinter is a cool mix of large and small! Mine is a "long/Tall" (the 158" wheelbase of the 03-06 is about the same size van as the 07+ 170" wheelbase)

My 158" turns in a sharper circle than my 1998 Dodge pickup did and is easier to get in and out of parking spaces. But...has 14' of cargo room behind the drivers seats. 6'2" of headroom inside is priceless!! Gives a lot of space to work with. Much nicer than the crawling around on my knees in the Eurovan ( when the top is down). Which of course you would have to do in a Domestic van without a highroof too.

With tires 6" larger than stock, a GDE tune and duallies I still get about 22mpg in the Sprinter around town!

I've never really had an issue getting parts for any of my German cars. Including the Sprinter. Sometimes it just takes a few days to get. Online prices are almost always better than local anyway so even on domestic stuff I'm willing to wait. That said, I've been surprised at when the local auto parts chains have in stock. One place even had a Sprinter specific oil filter wrench in stock.

There are also several examples of 800k to 1,000,000 mile Sprinters roaming around. So needing parts shouldn't be a constant problem.

 

[haven]

I don't think there's a Mercedes dealer in Whitehorse, Yukon Territories. If your expedition van will need 4x4, then consider a conversion by Chris at U-Joint Offroad
http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

 

[mhiscox]

You can search around for some other threads on which I've written about this, but the short take on the story is that the Sprinters have, until just now, been the only US/Canada van you could stand up in. It is also pretty well built and had some features, like good ground clearance, that kept them from being hopeless off-pavement. The fact that they routinely had better fuel economy--over 20 US mpg for the I-5 was a given--was a nice benefit.

Sprinters are more expensive than they might be, due to convoluted steps required to avoid a 25% duty on imported cargo vans. Parts are expensive, but whose parts aren't these days? The $150+ oil change, requiring ten quarts of synthetic, is often a surprise.

In exchange, there were few dealers and experienced mechanics, not so good for a truck that had more sophisticated engineering than the domestic trucks. And while the engines (particularly the in-line five) have legendary longevity, some have had serious engine problems, which the technicians sometimes were insufficiently experienced to prevent, or to diagnosis correctly when they happened. Taking the Sprinter away from Dodge dealerships just as they were getting some experience and replacing them with green Mercedes dealers didn't help.

Following correct and comprehensive maintenance is critical. They don't take well to lax procedures. If you buy a used one, a complete service history is important. Both of mine have been relatively trouble-free, but the Sprinter Source forum (which you should visit) is full of people with problems, both serious and minor, and many posters who think their Sprinters are horrible vehicles.

Until this year, the issues of the Sprinter got a pass because they were the only van like it. Now you can also choose a Ram Promaster or a Ford Transit. They have different strengths and weaknesses, but they offer a standing height van of similar size. They are, however, too new to have the any sort of track record; Sprinters are in their twelfth US NAFTA model year. Most, however, expect them to be serious competition.

 

[Cole]

In exchange, there were few dealers and experienced mechanics, not so good for a truck that had more sophisticated engineering than the domestic trucks.

That's not saying much. The Sprinter is actually pretty simple. It's only complicated if you are still living with 70s-80s tech.

There a plenty of Sprinter owners that never set foot in a Stealerahip for parts or service. Most things are fairly simple to DIY.

And while the engines (particularly the in-line five) have legendary longevity, some have had serious engine problems,

"Some" having serious issues can be said for my make or model of vehicle, including domestic vans. Hell, The Fords piss spark plugs!!

Following correct and comprehensive maintenance is critical. They don't take well to lax procedures.

Not really true, as an example, many of these guys drive for tens of thousands of miles with leaky injectors which causes the "Black Death" (usually curable). If they were maintained properly they would never see the build up of crud called Black Death. But they also survive the abuse 90% of the time just fine.

Sprinter Source forum (which you should visit) is full of people with problems, both serious and minor, and many posters who think their Sprinters are horrible vehicles.

Of course the forum is full of people with problems! That is 90% of the reason people visit a forum like that! To figure out how to solve their problems. Especially for a forum about a "Cargo van", not exactly an enthusiast vehicle by nature. Even when converted to a camper it's still just a "tool" for many users. Not like owning an old Jaguar or something where people gather in a forum to discuss rare cars, (or like expo where there is a fun variety of discussions)

Should also consider that many of the Sprinters on the Sprinter forum have far more miles on their vans than users of most other forums.

 

[mhiscox]

That's not saying much. The Sprinter is actually pretty simple. It's only complicated if you are still living with 70s-80s tech.

ETC. . . .

You are correct, sir. I am a ************** and have no idea what I am talking about. After a decade of ownership, it's amazing I could be so misguided.

 

[GR8ADV]

You are correct, sir. I am a ************** and have no idea what I am talking about. After a decade of ownership, it's amazing I could be so misguided.

BWAAAHAHAHAAA

 

[Cole]

You are correct, sir. I am a ************** and have no idea what I am talking about. After a decade of ownership, it's amazing I could be so misguided.

My mom has owned a VCR for 25 years no can't program it either! But she sure as hell thinks she knows all about it. So what?!


For the record the only one calling you a ************** is yourself! :sombrero:


Mercedes has been making the inline 5 diesel for a long time and its a simple engine. The addition of computer controls only simplified diagnosis and repair IMO.

No more difficult than any similar year engine in any other platform.

What I don't understand is why people try to equate "holding the title" to a vehicle somehow equal to experience or understanding of working on them. Just cause you own it, doesn't mean you can/have/had/will/do work on it.

 

[GR8ADV]

My mom has owned a VCR for 25 years no can't program it either! But she sure as hell thinks she knows all about it. So what?!


For the record the only one calling you a ************** is yourself! :sombrero:


Mercedes has been making the inline 5 diesel for a long time and its a simple engine. The addition of computer controls only simplified diagnosis and repair IMO.

No more difficult than any similar year engine in any other platform.

What I don't understand is why people try to equate "holding the title" to a vehicle somehow equal to experience or understanding of working on them. Just cause you own it, doesn't mean you can/have/had/will/do work on it.

Most likely doesn't matter at all but there are 10 Ford dealers for every 1 MB dealer in the US (around 3000, to about 300 +/-) . I would expect that neither can fix a VCR.

 

[Cole]

Most likely doesn't matter at all but there are 10 Ford dealers for every 1 MB dealer in the US (around 3000, to about 300 +/-) . I would expect that neither can fix a VCR.

I personally don't see how that matters. I've never taken a used vehicle to a dealer, ever! I certainly don't buy crazy dealer priced parts!!

If you are looking to buy new and want to take it in for warranty that is one thing. But independent shops or diy are going to be a much better deal for a used car of any make/model. Especially where dealer support is lacking.

 

[mhiscox]

Most likely doesn't matter at all but there are 10 Ford dealers for every 1 MB dealer in the US (around 3000, to about 300 +/-) . I would expect that neither can fix a VCR.

Give it up, Ken. The gentleman has had his Sprinter for almost six full months now, which is clearly all one needs.

I trust the original poster can evaluate all the information here and make his own decisions.

 

[Cole]

Give it up, Ken. The gentleman has had his Sprinter for almost six full months now, which is clearly all one needs.

I trust the original poster can evaluate all the information here and make his own decisions.

Yep!

But I've been wrenching on German cars for 35 years ya tool!

And reading the Sprinter forums for years before buying mine! The odds are high that I've read far more of the threads on the Sprinter forum than you have. So have a good grasp on the tech issues.

"Owning" one doesn't translate to knowing squat about working on them or the big picture issues:shakin: Especially when you're just the guy writing the checks instead of doing the work!!!!!

How many of your holy dealer techs own every car they turn a wrench on?

I was just pointing out facts, but glad you turned it into mud slinging. God forbid anyone dispute your opinions with data and facts.:coffeedrink: I'm sure that approach has helped you learn a lot about Sprinters.

 

[Overland Hadley]

Back to the question of the OP.

Do some test drives, rent one for a couple days if you can. The differance of the Sprinter is amazing. IMHO it is ten times the vehicle, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Jb1rd]

Having had several full size domestic vans and one Sprinter, I find myself missing my Sprinter, there is just something in the way a German vehicle drives that I love. Granted I have never had a decked out and fine tuned suspension on a domestic so I can only speak of stock to stock.

 

[Marauder_Pilot]

I don't think there's a Mercedes dealer in Whitehorse, Yukon Territories. If your expedition van will need 4x4, then consider a conversion by Chris at U-Joint Offroad
http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

I'd love to do a 4WD swap, but that's a ways down the road. No Merc dealers up here, but we do have a Dodge dealership, so I should be good for dealer service-at least if I get one with a Dodge logo instead of a Mercedes logo at least (And when it comes to straight cargo and passenger vans, not already-converted RVs, there seem to be a lot more Dodge ones for sale)

Anyways. Thanks for the input, I like what I'm hearing so far. My current plan is to get a Chevrolet Express or GMC Savannah-I prefer them a ton over the E-Series because you can *almost* stand up inside one, so actually being able to stand inside a Sprinter is even nicer. Standing room isn't a dealbreaker for me, but it's definitely a plus.

The only vehicles I've ever personally owned are a '00 Jeep TJ and a '95 GMC Sierra-two hideously uncomplicated vehicles-so honestly the biggest worry I had was whether a German vehicle is actually going to be a more difficult and costly vehicle to maintain or not. Nice to know that any complexity they may have is offset by less need for maintenance in the first place. As long as I can do all the normal maintenance myself-change oil and fluids and brake pads and the like-then I'm happy.

What sort of mileage are people getting in loaded vans? What about aftermarket options to make it a little more rugged? (Lift kits, lockers, bumpers and such)