dhackney
Expedition Leader
charlieaarons said:
Relevent pages to determine drivetrain components are here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/docs/fusopowertrainpages.pdf
SRW Testing
- Thread starter whatcharterboat
- Start date
Relevent pages to determine drivetrain components are here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/docs/fusopowertrainpages.pdf
daniel ruops
Adventurer
Sand and DRW
whatcharterboat
Adventurer
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Noosa Heads, Australia
Posts: 31
Re: Hello Senor Whatcharterboat
Hi Dan
Thanks for the offer to come to the cesspool. It's actually in my plans to visit one day maybe in the next 5 years. I'm doing a Uni degree at the moment too so I'm a bit locked in. The customer who owns the IVECO in the pics has a shack down in Baja near good surf so I'm quite keen for a West Coast (or do you say Leftside) visit. Just be a matter of money.
(Please put this up as a separate post in the FG forum if you think its worth it and quote what I'm saying) Anyway regarging your question about DRW in sand > instead of running in the same wheel tracks, the DRW are breaking new ground and tend to drag rather than float. The biggest misconception people have about tyres on sand is that they have to be wide and float on top. It is not about having a wider footprint it's about having a LONGER one. (And IMO the narrower the better)
As I said in the post the Adventure Tours FG's don't bother with the correct offsets but that would be better. So when the FG's run into really soft stuff (usally coming off the beach) rather than charging at a dangerous pace, especially if your right next to a bogged Samari, they go forward till they start to go down, back up, go again but as they are still in there own wheel tracks they end up going a little further each time till they get through. Maybe 3 or 4 times. So they are sort of compacting hard tracks in their path. Can you see why a DRW is not the ideal setup for this?
BTW when I used to build offroad caravans it was always important to build the vans with the same track as the tow vehicle.
So regarding SRW, they tried big floatation tyres here and have now gone to the comparatively skinny Michelins which give a much longer footprint than the stock 7.50's. Even the road version of the XZL 100R16 was a good performer in sand but they are now longer available. There are some big MAN's over on Fraser running wider tyres but of course they are more than twice the weight.
Beach (soft sand) driving and the development of vehicles specifically for this is what the company that I work for was founded on and I myself have been heading up the beach surfing/camping since the seventies and still do. Noosa to Fraser Island (Cooloola National Park) is sort of like a mini Baja but only 15 minutes and a $5 ferry ride from my house.
Thanks for listening.
whatcharterboat
Adventurer
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Noosa Heads, Australia
Posts: 31
Re: Hello Senor Whatcharterboat
Hi Dan
Thanks for the offer to come to the cesspool. It's actually in my plans to visit one day maybe in the next 5 years. I'm doing a Uni degree at the moment too so I'm a bit locked in. The customer who owns the IVECO in the pics has a shack down in Baja near good surf so I'm quite keen for a West Coast (or do you say Leftside) visit. Just be a matter of money.
(Please put this up as a separate post in the FG forum if you think its worth it and quote what I'm saying) Anyway regarging your question about DRW in sand > instead of running in the same wheel tracks, the DRW are breaking new ground and tend to drag rather than float. The biggest misconception people have about tyres on sand is that they have to be wide and float on top. It is not about having a wider footprint it's about having a LONGER one. (And IMO the narrower the better)
As I said in the post the Adventure Tours FG's don't bother with the correct offsets but that would be better. So when the FG's run into really soft stuff (usally coming off the beach) rather than charging at a dangerous pace, especially if your right next to a bogged Samari, they go forward till they start to go down, back up, go again but as they are still in there own wheel tracks they end up going a little further each time till they get through. Maybe 3 or 4 times. So they are sort of compacting hard tracks in their path. Can you see why a DRW is not the ideal setup for this?
BTW when I used to build offroad caravans it was always important to build the vans with the same track as the tow vehicle.
So regarding SRW, they tried big floatation tyres here and have now gone to the comparatively skinny Michelins which give a much longer footprint than the stock 7.50's. Even the road version of the XZL 100R16 was a good performer in sand but they are now longer available. There are some big MAN's over on Fraser running wider tyres but of course they are more than twice the weight.
Beach (soft sand) driving and the development of vehicles specifically for this is what the company that I work for was founded on and I myself have been heading up the beach surfing/camping since the seventies and still do. Noosa to Fraser Island (Cooloola National Park) is sort of like a mini Baja but only 15 minutes and a $5 ferry ride from my house.
Thanks for listening.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Fg Gearing
Hi Doug,
So looking at your gear ratios. They are the same as what we have here. Yes?
What has the 4.87 diffs then? The 07/08 models?
Regards.
Hi Doug,
So looking at your gear ratios. They are the same as what we have here. Yes?
What has the 4.87 diffs then? The 07/08 models?
Regards.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
whatcharterboat said:
John,
The data includes the 2007 models. I don't believe there were any changes for the 2008 models.
Chip is probably the best resource for what is current data for products on sale in North America.
I have not kept up with the new Fuso model changes since we started our build and subsequently left the U.S.
I think there is a new FG coming to the U.S.A. as a 2009 model, but Chip or someone back there would be better informed on that information than I am out here.
And BTW, thanks for your invaluable posts on what is possible on the Fuso chassis. I hope that your company has the oppotunity in the future to partner with an existing supplier or franchise operations into the U.S. market so people there can take advantage of your experience and capabilities.
Doug
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charlieaarons
Explorer
whatcharterboat said:
11.00R16 XZLs are the same height as 325s (38.7") and have almost the same footprint (90 sq" vs. 94 - a 7.50R16 is 44 sq") and load capacity (4360kg/axle vs 4600kg/axle). They fit on 6.5 or 7" rims. A North American FG with these tires and 5.71s (with one of the 4.9L motors) would do fine as far as gearing. 11.00s are marked as "limited availability" on my North American Michelin database.
As you know, XZLs wear very well on tarmac and rocks despite their fairly aggressive tread.
Also, I read that Locked Drive Systems has NoSpin (Detroit Locker) diffs for the D033H diff (FG) as well as larger Mitsubishi trucks.
Charlie
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whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Srw
Hey Charlie thanks for the info on Locked Drive Systems. Sounds about right for the tyre sizes. Im sure my boss has the exact specs. I have trouble locating detailed info on them at the moment. I just know that the XZL 255/100R16 is about 930mm and the XML 325/85R16 is close to 1000mm and the 100's will just go on an FG with standard suspension (but 7.5" custom offset rims and long travel is better) but you have to relocate the Air-con condenser. The XML's need more major work( see pic) > custom offset widened rims, fiberglass flairs, long travel suspension, loose the bottom step, modify the mudflaps and the driver's side tyre may still rub on the steering arm at absolute full lock. Is it worth it? Offroad > sure it is. But onroad is another story. The gearing feels great but wear,noise and vibration. 100's put the speedo out by about 10% and the XML's out by 17% I seem to remember.
An example: On our test track, we have a very steep, rutted, loose (marble to golfball sized rocks) and long hillclimb. No run up area either. A friend went out there to have a play. He has a Taco (Hilux) with a 5" lift and 35" aggressive offroad tyres. He came back and told me about how just couldn't get up the "hill" and muttering something about a front air-locker. The FG putting close to 6ton on the ground through those big claws just went straightup with a change from 2nd to 1st in low range at the halfway mark. Obviously the Taco driver was a bit deflated.
Doug. Thanks. Things are very quiet here and as I said before to you we are only a very small family run company and this may be our best option. My boss is aguably one of the most knowlagable guys with modifying offoad FG's and Jap trucks on the planet and our market here is so very small by comparison. Very down to earth (humble/honest) kind of guy too. Not the sort to blab on all day in a forum like me.
Hey Charlie thanks for the info on Locked Drive Systems. Sounds about right for the tyre sizes. Im sure my boss has the exact specs. I have trouble locating detailed info on them at the moment. I just know that the XZL 255/100R16 is about 930mm and the XML 325/85R16 is close to 1000mm and the 100's will just go on an FG with standard suspension (but 7.5" custom offset rims and long travel is better) but you have to relocate the Air-con condenser. The XML's need more major work( see pic) > custom offset widened rims, fiberglass flairs, long travel suspension, loose the bottom step, modify the mudflaps and the driver's side tyre may still rub on the steering arm at absolute full lock. Is it worth it? Offroad > sure it is. But onroad is another story. The gearing feels great but wear,noise and vibration. 100's put the speedo out by about 10% and the XML's out by 17% I seem to remember.
An example: On our test track, we have a very steep, rutted, loose (marble to golfball sized rocks) and long hillclimb. No run up area either. A friend went out there to have a play. He has a Taco (Hilux) with a 5" lift and 35" aggressive offroad tyres. He came back and told me about how just couldn't get up the "hill" and muttering something about a front air-locker. The FG putting close to 6ton on the ground through those big claws just went straightup with a change from 2nd to 1st in low range at the halfway mark. Obviously the Taco driver was a bit deflated.
Doug. Thanks. Things are very quiet here and as I said before to you we are only a very small family run company and this may be our best option. My boss is aguably one of the most knowlagable guys with modifying offoad FG's and Jap trucks on the planet and our market here is so very small by comparison. Very down to earth (humble/honest) kind of guy too. Not the sort to blab on all day in a forum like me.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Pics
Just noticed the flex in the chassis in the middle pic. See the body line of the cab and body Also the bottom pic was quite steep I know it doesn't look it from the angle of the pic but you can see how the weight shifted cause he took it on an angle instead of going straight. I was in the truck following but the guys who took the pics said they took a deep breath all at once.
Just noticed the flex in the chassis in the middle pic. See the body line of the cab and body Also the bottom pic was quite steep I know it doesn't look it from the angle of the pic but you can see how the weight shifted cause he took it on an angle instead of going straight. I was in the truck following but the guys who took the pics said they took a deep breath all at once.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
whatcharterboat said:
This is the reason we built ours with a 3 point pivot frame. Once I saw the photos from Darrin Fink's torsional twist test of an FG I decided that any North American produced RV product rigidly mounted to that frame would self-destruct very soon.
Your company must obviously be building very strong bus/camper units to withstand the torsional forces we have experienced with our FG offroad.
More photos and info here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-pivot-frame.htm
Re: North America
A small manufacturer with a proven track record such as Sportsmobile http://www.sportsmobile.com/ might be a good Joint Venture / Franchise fit for your company, especially their west coast division. A Fuso would be a good next class up vehicle chassis for them. They have knowledge of the NA market, sales channels, etc. - you have world class knowledge and a proven track record with the chassis, etc.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Thanks Doug
I'll pass this on to my boss. The financial market is pretty volatile at the moment. So I'm not sure. Certainly worth discussing with them. Absolutely.
The motorhome bodies have always been strong because we built them using the same steel frames as our buses which have to meet Government "rollover " standards. You would not believe what we have to go through to supply that documentation. However the one we are building at the moment will be of a full composite construction. Similar to a foam sandwich yacht and we will probably continue down that path, maybe with some rollover protection over the seating area only if it is expected to carry passengers in the rear while in transit.
About the body mounts, Sorry I must have misled you with that statement. The Fuso with the 4.5mm chassis, flex more than any other truck I've come across. Sorry I can't give full details but we have a really simple system allows the body to just sit on top of the chassis, without pivoting from side to side but still allows the chassis to fall away freely in any direction it needs to. So it is completely independant of the body.
This is something that Paul worked out many,many years ago (instead of copying a Mog) cause he was trying to better utilize the frame flex offroad but without the potential body roll and also keep the centre of gravity as low as possible. Our floors are still flat and maybe only an inch and a half or so above the transmisssion/step area.
Thanks Doug. Have just joined your mailing list. Very cool.
I'll pass this on to my boss. The financial market is pretty volatile at the moment. So I'm not sure. Certainly worth discussing with them. Absolutely.
The motorhome bodies have always been strong because we built them using the same steel frames as our buses which have to meet Government "rollover " standards. You would not believe what we have to go through to supply that documentation. However the one we are building at the moment will be of a full composite construction. Similar to a foam sandwich yacht and we will probably continue down that path, maybe with some rollover protection over the seating area only if it is expected to carry passengers in the rear while in transit.
About the body mounts, Sorry I must have misled you with that statement. The Fuso with the 4.5mm chassis, flex more than any other truck I've come across. Sorry I can't give full details but we have a really simple system allows the body to just sit on top of the chassis, without pivoting from side to side but still allows the chassis to fall away freely in any direction it needs to. So it is completely independant of the body.
This is something that Paul worked out many,many years ago (instead of copying a Mog) cause he was trying to better utilize the frame flex offroad but without the potential body roll and also keep the centre of gravity as low as possible. Our floors are still flat and maybe only an inch and a half or so above the transmisssion/step area.
Thanks Doug. Have just joined your mailing list. Very cool.
Hi All,
I have just had the SRW conversion carried out by ATW on my 2002 Isuzu NPS300 115hp 4.6lt naturally aspirated service truck. The work carried out by John, Mark & the others in the workshop was great & nothing seemed to be too difficult. A great company to deal with.
The trip from home to Brisbane is just over 1600kms & we (myself, the wife & our 9yo son the navigator completed it in 2 days with stopping at Waverly Creek for some sleep. The return trip was carried out in the same time frame. The GVM for the trip down was 4500kg & return was 4900kg.
In some ways we were luck that we had similar conditions both ways. Air temp during the day between 30C & 38C, of a night 25C by the time we stopped. Between Ayr & Mackay both ways we had a head wind 15-20kph
Some comparisons before & after.
Before- Average speed 74kph, cruising at 80-85kph. Fuel usage overall 16.9l/100km
After- Average speed 82kph, cruising at 90-97kph. Fuel usage overall 16.8l/100km:smiley_drive:
I have just had the SRW conversion carried out by ATW on my 2002 Isuzu NPS300 115hp 4.6lt naturally aspirated service truck. The work carried out by John, Mark & the others in the workshop was great & nothing seemed to be too difficult. A great company to deal with.
The trip from home to Brisbane is just over 1600kms & we (myself, the wife & our 9yo son the navigator completed it in 2 days with stopping at Waverly Creek for some sleep. The return trip was carried out in the same time frame. The GVM for the trip down was 4500kg & return was 4900kg.
In some ways we were luck that we had similar conditions both ways. Air temp during the day between 30C & 38C, of a night 25C by the time we stopped. Between Ayr & Mackay both ways we had a head wind 15-20kph
Some comparisons before & after.
Before- Average speed 74kph, cruising at 80-85kph. Fuel usage overall 16.9l/100km
After- Average speed 82kph, cruising at 90-97kph. Fuel usage overall 16.8l/100km:smiley_drive:
ozzyfishaman
Adventurer
Hi 1Engine,do you have any suspension mods on the NPS?
Cheers John
Cheers John
single rear wheels
hello all
on our 08 fuso fg (us model) we are running 19.5 x 8.25 single rims with yokohama ty 303 tires 285/70-19.5, 35.4 high x 11.1 wide, weight rating 6615 per. we choose these commercial tires as we needed the ability to haul goods for our store.
we use our rig dual purpose, to haul for our general store as well as a camper. we've been very happy with these wheels and gearing change. we live in a mountanous area and haul at max gvw regularly, the power loss with the large tires is minimal. at 60 mph we are seeing just about a 4-5 mile difference on the speedo and gps. this has also helped our fuel mileage as the higher rpms really seems to reduce the mileage on our truck.
on our recent trip to death valley with our new camper installed, we traveled over a 100 miles of dirt, mud and 8-10" snow in the back country and we're happy to report the fuso is outstanding in offroad conditions. we aired down to 60 psi all around from our normal 85 front 95 rear (for hauling) and that worked well. not sure how far we'll be able to air down these tires in offroad conditions, we'll try alittle lower next trip and see how it goes. these tires are pretty stiff in the sidewall but preformed well.
cheers lehel and laura
hello all
on our 08 fuso fg (us model) we are running 19.5 x 8.25 single rims with yokohama ty 303 tires 285/70-19.5, 35.4 high x 11.1 wide, weight rating 6615 per. we choose these commercial tires as we needed the ability to haul goods for our store.
we use our rig dual purpose, to haul for our general store as well as a camper. we've been very happy with these wheels and gearing change. we live in a mountanous area and haul at max gvw regularly, the power loss with the large tires is minimal. at 60 mph we are seeing just about a 4-5 mile difference on the speedo and gps. this has also helped our fuel mileage as the higher rpms really seems to reduce the mileage on our truck.
on our recent trip to death valley with our new camper installed, we traveled over a 100 miles of dirt, mud and 8-10" snow in the back country and we're happy to report the fuso is outstanding in offroad conditions. we aired down to 60 psi all around from our normal 85 front 95 rear (for hauling) and that worked well. not sure how far we'll be able to air down these tires in offroad conditions, we'll try alittle lower next trip and see how it goes. these tires are pretty stiff in the sidewall but preformed well.
cheers lehel and laura