Such limited 4x4 van choices with decent gas mileage (in the US)

[86scotty]

I think the lines are getting too blurry here. An Outback is not a van and an SUV certainly isn't. Totally different.

Van = flat floor and walk through (more or less) from front to rear. This is less practical the smaller the van but it's still the most literal definition.

The best small van , the mighty VW Vanagon, has yet to be discussed here but for good reason, they are old, unreliable and lack any semblance of basic amenities including capable air conditioning, but they are amazing. I was simply astounded at where my 86 Vanagon 2wd would take me on AWD tires. And at 6'2" I could move around in it without the pop top deployed.

I've never owned a Eurovan so I can't speak to those.


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[rruff]

You are not wrong, but I think the people who are interested in vans, even the AWD ones, are less inclined to crawl the rocks.
The most of them, especially the Sprinter can handle the most of the dirt roads quite well. Yes, there are people who think that a 4x4 badge means they have a capable offroader.

That last bit is the part I'm calling attention to. AWD is always nice... but there is a cost initially, plus maintenance, reliability, mpg, etc. Personally I think ground clearance is more important for where I like to go, so I'd spend the money on that. I'd get low gears and a locker before AWD also.

Regarding the mini-vans... when I had a look at those the ground clearance was atrocious. SUVs are better. The Subarus are good in that aspect and is one reason why they are popular.

Still think a pickup is the way to go... even 2wd (with low gears and a locker). Make your own insulated box and mount it to the frame. People who are worried about needing to step out of the truck and hop in the back vs staying inside, must live differently than me. A pass-through is a waste of good storage space IMO. I'm gonna need to pee before bed anyway, and I might as well do that outside.

 

[b. rock]

Find a Chevy Express with the 2.8L Duramax and a quigley or advanced conversion. Or, there was a Transit with the 5cyl powerstroke and a quadvan conversion on the front range of CO not too long ago, might still be for sale.

It's a bummer the Metris doesn't have any awd options with the 4 cyl turbo.

My former TDI swapped vanagon was amazing when it was running. Spunky, fun to drive, and 28 mpg. 4 breakdowns later it was promptly sold. Might be able to find one with a Boxeer conversion though? Those seemed a lot more sorted.

Edit: TDI Touareg?

 

[calicamper]

Find a Chevy Express with the 2.8L Duramax and a quigley or advanced conversion. Or, there was a Transit with the 5cyl powerstroke and a quadvan conversion on the front range of CO not too long ago, might still be for sale.

It's a bummer the Metris doesn't have any awd options with the 4 cyl turbo.

My former TDI swapped vanagon was amazing when it was running. Spunky, fun to drive, and 28 mpg. 4 breakdowns later it was promptly sold. Might be able to find one with a Boxeer conversion though? Those seemed a lot more sorted.

Edit: TDI Touareg?

Neighbor has a nice vanagon Subaru 2.2 and he’s going F150 4wheel camper. Tired of breaking down and having drama finding someone to help him sort it out. I’ve spent more time working on his van than my own boat and that’s saying alot 😆

 

[GR8ADV]

I've been living full time in a Subaru Outback with about 75 cubic feet of 'livable space' and, after 18 months, I am ready to upsize. I know a larger home will not get as good of gas mileage but there seems to be a gap in the market. I want to find something that is 4x4 and gets least 20mpg, but that pretty much limits things immediately to Sprinters and the small Japanese Imports (Delica L400 is my front runner)
--
1) The LWB Delica has 185 cubic feet and the ceiling height is ~50 inches (give or take with Crystal Lite roof) and I am 6'2" and want to sit comfortably inside. This van would allow me to sit up inside and cook inside (the two major reasons to upsize) but I'd still be a little cramped. It's wheelbase is 118" so only slightly longer than my Outback. Then there is also the risk that comes along with buying a 25+ year old rig with parts not being readily available.
--
2) The 128" wheelbase Sprinter has 282 cubic feet (short roof) and would be perfect! But the 4x4 only comes in the 144" and 170" wheelbases which is just getting too massive. I like the nimbleness and maneuverability of my Outback. Again, I'm willing to sacrifice some of that for more living space.
--
3) The LWB Transit Connect AWD has 200 cubic feet and would need some suspension upgrades to get it to my level of off-road-readiness, and also only has a ceiling height of 49".
--
4) The regular Transit 250 AWD is available in a 130" wheelbase with short roof (57" ceiling) that has 246 cubic feet, but is BARELY there with the mileage requirement at 18city / 21 hwy.
--
I see a lot of campervans in Europe that seem too hit the sweet spot I am looking for: ~250 cubic feet interior / 4x4 or AWD / 25+ mpg... why can't we get that in the US?!? Few other tidbits in my rant. I'm not interested in trucks, terrible mileage and much of the wheelbase/footprint is not living space (large hood and cab). I need AWD or 4x4 since I go on the beach, up halfway gnarly forest service roads, and drive frequently in snow. I've had to cook meals outside from my tailgate and do a reverse somersault to get into bed from the driver seat so being able to sit upright will be enough for me - a few vanlife friends say that I just NEED the high top so I can stan inside, but I disagree. Anyway - thanks for reading. Happy to answer any questions and would love any suggestions you may have for what could be my dream canvas for vanlifing!

How many miles would you drive a year in this?

 

[Highlander]

Regarding the mini-vans

Wait, are we talking about vans (Transit, Sprinter, Promaster) or mini vans (Sedona, Siena, Odessy) ?
Other than family stuff mini vans very limited. One should not eben drive on a gravel road.

 

[rruff]

Yes, mini vans. You can lift Siennas a couple inches and install better tires, and they'd probably be OK.

 

[calicamper]

Wait, are we talking about vans (Transit, Sprinter, Promaster) or mini vans (Sedona, Siena, Odessy) ?
Other than family stuff mini vans very limited. One should not eben drive on a gravel road.

A loaded mini van in good tires can go anywhere a loaded OB can go because a loaded outback has about 4 inches of ground clearance 😆. And a cvt that packs it up when you need it the most.

 

[RVflyfish]

Wait, are we talking about vans (Transit, Sprinter, Promaster) or mini vans (Sedona, Siena, Odessy) ?
Other than family stuff mini vans very limited. One should not eben drive on a gravel road.

I don’t know about that. I lifted my AWD Astro 4” and put 17” wheels with 255/65-17 Goodyear Wrangler AT’s on it. Gravel and forest service roads are nothing burgers. In fact it mobs surprisingly well, and gets into some tight spaces, including in parking lots since its exterior footprint is smaller than my mom’s Lexus ES350.



Inside I have a Coleman cot set lengthwise on the driver’s side. I doubled its mattress with a Thermarest underneath. Super comfortable. Four good-sized clear Costco totes slide in under the cot; and there’s room on the passenger side for a second Thermarest if I have company.

I have about 20” of depth left at the back of the van. I use the space for a galley, with an ice chest and two Coleman stoves. I cook outside under the rear hatch, which works like an awning.

I have an alternate setup where I pull all of that stuff out and instead slide my 8’ fly fishing pram in under a frame I built. I put a double mattress on top and sleep like a baby.

Future projects include a 30+ gallon freshwater tank, solar and 400ah of lithium batteries.

Of course it has its niggles. The steering is loose, with about 1/2” of play either direction before any input actually transmits to the front wheels. The front end is a little harsh over bumps because I cranked up the torsion keys to get some of the lift. It has an oil leak and the V6 has no power.

But all in all it’s a great little package. If I could find lift spindles to improve the ride and swap in a V-8, I’d probably keep it forever.

 

[TheDantee]

I've been living full time in a Subaru Outback with about 75 cubic feet of 'livable space' and, after 18 months, I am ready to upsize. I know a larger home will not get as good of gas mileage but there seems to be a gap in the market. I want to find something that is 4x4 and gets least 20mpg, but that pretty much limits things immediately to Sprinters and the small Japanese Imports (Delica L400 is my front runner)
--
1) The LWB Delica has 185 cubic feet and the ceiling height is ~50 inches (give or take with Crystal Lite roof) and I am 6'2" and want to sit comfortably inside. This van would allow me to sit up inside and cook inside (the two major reasons to upsize) but I'd still be a little cramped. It's wheelbase is 118" so only slightly longer than my Outback. Then there is also the risk that comes along with buying a 25+ year old rig with parts not being readily available.
--
2) The 128" wheelbase Sprinter has 282 cubic feet (short roof) and would be perfect! But the 4x4 only comes in the 144" and 170" wheelbases which is just getting too massive. I like the nimbleness and maneuverability of my Outback. Again, I'm willing to sacrifice some of that for more living space.
--
3) The LWB Transit Connect AWD has 200 cubic feet and would need some suspension upgrades to get it to my level of off-road-readiness, and also only has a ceiling height of 49".
--
4) The regular Transit 250 AWD is available in a 130" wheelbase with short roof (57" ceiling) that has 246 cubic feet, but is BARELY there with the mileage requirement at 18city / 21 hwy.
--
I see a lot of campervans in Europe that seem too hit the sweet spot I am looking for: ~250 cubic feet interior / 4x4 or AWD / 25+ mpg... why can't we get that in the US?!? Few other tidbits in my rant. I'm not interested in trucks, terrible mileage and much of the wheelbase/footprint is not living space (large hood and cab). I need AWD or 4x4 since I go on the beach, up halfway gnarly forest service roads, and drive frequently in snow. I've had to cook meals outside from my tailgate and do a reverse somersault to get into bed from the driver seat so being able to sit upright will be enough for me - a few vanlife friends say that I just NEED the high top so I can stan inside, but I disagree. Anyway - thanks for reading. Happy to answer any questions and would love any suggestions you may have for what could be my dream canvas for vanlifing!

Have you considered something like a Ford E350 and then converting it to 4WD with a kit from someone like UJoint Offroad? The smaller Regular body might work for you and it comes in diesel options pre 2009 which should help mpg I don't know if it's over 20mpg though. You can add any size fibreglass top you want giving you more options but based on living in a Subaru I would assume you would just keep the stock roof height.

 

[86scotty]

Have you considered something like a Ford E350 and then converting it to 4WD with a kit from someone like UJoint Offroad? The smaller Regular body might work for you and it comes in diesel options pre 2009 which should help mpg I don't know if it's over 20mpg though. You can add any size fibreglass top you want giving you more options but based on living in a Subaru I would assume you would just keep the stock roof height.

I'm trying to resist the urge to be a smartass here but is this a joke? Ford vans, especially with high tops or any 4wd conversion are so far from 20 mpg's it's hilarious. 10 is a better bet. Even the 5.4l gas engine, the smallest half-capable option, averages about 12-13 with any lift/4wd/high-top combo.

 

[SpaceJamHikes]

I could afford 2 MPG... but that doesn't mean I'm willing to do it. I place a value on things that are worth it to me, and having a high MPG is something I value to have a lower carbon footprint, so I'm willing to compromise some on the size and off-road capability.

I took my Subaru up and over Cinnamon Pass in the San Juans in Colorado last weekend and I think that was a good baseline for what I want to be able to drive. FWD is definitely out. AWD Transits and the like would need some major upgrades. 4x4 Sprinters or Delicas seem like the winner.

First, take an honest assessment of all your living expenses. Be sure to include maintenance and depreciation on everything you own. Now factor the cost of 12 mpg vs 16 mpg (realistically that's a good as it will get). What % of the total is that? Is it worth making lots of compromises in your vehicle to save that much... or if you really can't afford it, drive less, driver slower, etc? Note... by driving less, you are saving a lot more than just the price of gas.

I don't know your specific circumstances, but none of the vans sold in the US are good off road (relative to a truck), even the AWD Transit. You can lift them a little, relocate the shock bracket that hangs down in the back, and they will do ok for something that is missing low range. Maybe that's totally fine? If so, I'd consider whether you really need AWD. For me, if it has poor ground clearance and I don't wish to beat it to death, that already limits where I can go... ground clearance being more important than AWD, IMO. I'd check into a NA Transit with the lowest gears you can get and a locker, add a 2" lift and the shock mod, bigger tires. The Ram van has some pros and cons with FWD, and the rear axle will need modding for clearance, but those can work too.

Or just get a pickup...

 

[SpaceJamHikes]

Henry Ford started this in America with his line "You can have any color you want as long as it's black".

The modern translation of that is "You can have any vehicle you want (in America) as long as it's a pick up."

Pick-ups get the love here. It's all America really does well. Oh, that and useless Crossover SUV things. I'm with you and wish it weren't so, but it is.

Yeah, sad but true 😓

 

[SpaceJamHikes]

Former Outback guy here. I drive a heavy tow pack Ford Expedition today. Way WAY more capable than the Outback in every way. I get a solid 2mpg less all around average than my Outback did. But I got 400hp, true 4x4, 9200lb max tow and 1700lbs payload. Way better build quality also.

My buddies with their big awl dr Transit vans when driven conservative get about 1mpg less averaging than I get in the Expedition. As for off pavement? Weight is the bigger enemy to the van (they sink in soft surfaces when packed full of crap) stock the van easily can go where the loaded poorly powered/geared Outback could go.

But I can't sit upright and cook inside an SUV. Same with almost all pop-top truck campers, you can't use them with the top down.

 

[SpaceJamHikes]

Did you consider a Toyota Hiace diesel?

I have, but I don't like the cabover design. Zero crumple zone in an accident, and I've heard that the motor being under your seat can turn into an unwanted seat warmer no matter how much insulation you add. This is why I like the gen4 Delica, similar MPG and 4x4, but more of a traditional van shape