Suspension Lift vs. SOA

[Ga Yota 4x4]

I've got an 87 Jeep Wrangler that I want to put some height under. Looking for info on which route I should take Ex. Suspension Lift or SOA? Do you do both, or do the serve the same purpose? Understand SOA can limit the ride quality, so I don't mind spending the extra pennies for the suspension lift. Any recommendations on which brand to use? Also if I go with the suspension lift should I put on a shackle reverse kit at the same time? Does it come with the suspension kit? Any info it greatly appreciated!

 

[Scott Brady]

I've got an 87 Jeep Wrangler that I want to put some height under. Looking for info on which route I should take Ex. Suspension Lift or SOA? Do you do both, or do the serve the same purpose? Understand SOA can limit the ride quality, so I don't mind spending the extra pennies for the suspension lift. Any recommendations on which brand to use? Also if I go with the suspension lift should I put on a shackle reverse kit at the same time? Does it come with the suspension kit? Any info it greatly appreciated!

I would avoid SOA for a wrangler driven on the road much, as you will gain a minimum of 4.5" of lift.

For my YJ, I installed an Old Man Emu suspension, and it was excellent, from the first day to the day I sold the Jeep (four years later)

Get four J1R springs and the OME firm shocks. It gave me about 2" of lift and I fit 33x10.5 tires on the Jeep.

 

[Bayou Boy]

That's pretty durn good articulation for a YJ!

 

[MossMan]

This is really a preference decision if you ask me. There are probably as many people that would say SOA as SUA. Don't assume though that SOA limits ride quality. For me ride, handling, and road manners stayed the same or even improved slightly when I took my 87 YJ SOA and added 35's. I know that sounds impossible but it was great on and off road after that.

The biggest concerns with SOA will be rear axle wrap and steering geometry. If you're looking for the most clearance this is certainly the best choice. However you'll probably want to add an anti wrap bar in the back and do some sort of hi-steer of at least crossover steering. You'll maintain stock springs and even shocks if you relocate the lower brackets and your ride should stay basically the same.

On the other hand,

I've seen many Jeeps that perfrom equally as well SUA and without the need for the extra mods to steering and axle wrap. I know OME makes a very reputable kit and have good things about the ride quality. Bottom line is probably if you want to run 35's or less you could do SUA, 36's or above would be better SOA.

 

[SeaRubi]

the problems with going SOA are the myriad issues that come with running that much lift. In addition to issues like axle wrap, you'll need to heavily revamp your steering linkages, and start thinking about brake upgrades if you intend to fill out the wheel wells with larger tires ( >= 35").

Given you're posting here on ExPo, the common themes that guide vehicle mods are:

* dependability
* stability
* ease of repair

Keeping the lift down and running proven components such as the OME kit gives you a lot of benefits. You won't need to modify as many systems by keeping the lift and tire size smaller, around 33" or less. Keeping the center of gravity low is critical for sidehilling, towing, and onroad handling. You may see those rock crawler rigs sidehill just fine with full-width D60 axles and 14.5" wide tires ... BUT ... you don't want to drive that rig on the highway, nor do you want it's gas mileage or noise level at highway speeds.

In terms of repairs, if you break an OME spring or shock, replacements are readily available and the fix is bolt-on. Compare that with often an accumulation of custom fabrication leading to broken welds, stress fatigues in materials where they saw load that wasn't taken into consideration for long-haul use, and the smaller and fewer mods approach will start to make sense.

fwiw.

(rubi happily on the stock 31's, and staying there).

 

[OS-Aussie]

The real question is how much do you want to spend.

I am running coilovers all round and love the ride, way more than stock, or a couple of other after market kits I have used.

A fair few guys from my CA Jeep club run AirRock. There is an ability to selectively lift side to side or front to back, along with a very good ride quality.
http://rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/02may/oro_airrock.asp

Yes, I know based on the year you don't have a TJ, but most systems can work if you really want. I have run the Rubicon with a friend in a converted coil spring YJ and it worked well. So as with all mods it is a case of how much money is in the budget.

Spring overs have fallen out of style in recent years for whatever reasons.


Some other ideas........

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/suspension/131_0702_jeep_yj_fiberglass_leaf_springs/index.html
http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/tech/03014wd_suspension_system/index.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/29318_jeep_monolinear_yj_suspension/index.html
http://www.stunkworks.com/jeep/articulation.html

Ultra flex -----
http://longhornoffroad.com/pages/writeups/tech/yjbuggysprings/yjbuggysprings.htm
http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/quarterellip/

 

[BigAl]

Understand SOA can limit the ride quality, so I don't mind spending the extra pennies for the suspension lift.

SOA done right is 2-3 times as expensive as the best SUA leaf spring lifts. These guys hit all the main issues. I solved them all and am very happy with my SOA 90YJ but it took a lot of work

 

[dennisuello]

SOA done right is 2-3 times as expensive as the best SUA leaf spring lifts. These guys hit all the main issues. I solved them all and am very happy with my SOA 90YJ but it took a lot of work

Where's the extra cost coming in? SOA will be as expensive as a quality 4-5" SUA lift. If you keep stock springs, SOA will be cheaper. Shocks, brake lines, misc will be same for SUA and SOA. The only difference is you have to weld on new spring perches.

SUA can flex pretty well, here's my old YJ with Rubicon Express Extreme Duty 4.5" kit.

 

[BigAl]

...Where's the extra cost coming in? SOA will be as expensive as a quality 4-5" SUA lift. If you keep stock springs, SOA will be cheaper. Shocks, brake lines, misc will be same for SUA and SOA. The only difference is you have to weld on new spring perches...

If you haven't done it, it sounds hard to believe. 2 problems that everyone has are axle wrap, commonly fixed with a $250 traction bar, and high steer which can be $300-1000 fix. I don't want to get into a soa/sua pissing match but I would highly recommend doing a ton of research before going SOA. It is not as simple as moving the perches

Some pics of my own
SOA on 33s

SOA on 36s

 

[Ga Yota 4x4]

Looks like I really opened a can of worms

I was leaning towards a SOA before my post mainly because I found someone locally would do it for me for around $500. How much abuse are we talking concerning axle wrap with the SOA? I'm not a hardcore 4 wheeler (rockcrawler), so I won't be testing the limits of my jeep. Mine will we used mainly for weekend expeditions (camping)

From what I've read SOA sounds like you can run bigger tires, but lacks the flexibility of a suspension lift.

Where does the shackle reverse kit come into play?

Forgive my ignorance on suspension. I've always been more into performance before becoming a jeeper.

 

[dennisuello]

If you haven't done it, it sounds hard to believe. 2 problems that everyone has are axle wrap, commonly fixed with a $250 traction bar, and high steer which can be $300-1000 fix. I don't want to get into a soa/sua pissing match but I would highly recommend doing a ton of research before going SOA. It is not as simple as moving the perches

A beefed up stock steering set up will still work with SOA. Axle wrap can be minimized if you used stiffer springs, like SOA specific 1.5" springs from RE.

The real question is what's the intended purpose of a rig and desired tire size. Since this is posted on a expedition site, I would assume no larger than 33s and main focus is on the ride quality.

SOA would actually offer better ride quality, due to a flatter spring, but over 5" of lift is too much for 33s and will make a rig too top heavy.

I would recommend Old Man Emu kit and don't skimp on the shocks.

 

[OS-Aussie]

mmm, I think many people run bigger than 33 on this site maybe 35 is more common than some people think, but for a mild YJ I agree 33 is enough or there will be axles and such to follow. Put some new springs with a couple of inches of lift and a good pair of shocks in spring under. It does not sound like you are looking for the clearance or RTI.

 

[BigAl]

Looks like I really opened a can of worms

I was leaning towards a SOA before my post mainly because I found someone locally would do it for me for around $500. How much abuse are we talking concerning axle wrap with the SOA? I'm not a hardcore 4 wheeler (rockcrawler), so I won't be testing the limits of my jeep. Mine will we used mainly for weekend expeditions (camping)

From what I've read SOA sounds like you can run bigger tires, but lacks the flexibility of a suspension lift.

Where does the shackle reverse kit come into play?

Forgive my ignorance on suspension. I've always been more into performance before becoming a jeeper.

Axle wrap occurs primarily in the rear in higher torque situations, like pulling out from a stop. The spring actually twists in to an "s" shape and tilts the pinion angle way up. This causes the drivesshaft to bind or break and the wheels to kind of hop. It is especially noticable on hill climbs.

I've done 2 shackle reversal jeeps with mixed results. The shacke reveral is done on the front. The theory is that moving the shackles to the rear spring hanger gives better response to bumps. One jeep really handled nice for me, the other somehow messed up the caster and the return to center feel was screwed. Another issue with shackle reversal is that the front driveshaft can bottom under full flex, so you may need a long travel slip yoke shaft.

I wasn't trying to talk you out of an SOA, I just wanted to stress that it takes more work. Most agree that the stock springs are too soft for SOA. Good RE springs like Dennis suggested add another $600 to the price tag.

 

[OS-Aussie]

You may see those rock crawler rigs sidehill just fine with full-width D60 axles and 14.5" wide tires ... BUT ... you don't want to drive that rig on the highway, nor do you want it's gas mileage or noise level at highway speeds.

.

Maybe not full width Dana 60's but 39.5x15x16.5 tires and sits on the road just fine at more than legal speed. Ok, tire noise is an issue with the big rubber, worse than the Hemi - 15mpg. Those little 37 MTR's are almost silent when they are on.

If the geometry is right, things work just fine. But if it's not dialed in it sucks BIG TIME. I have had other Jeep club guys ride in mine, who own Jeeps with 33's and 35's comment how much better mine handles than their Jeep. So if you are prepared to spend time sorting the issues most things can be solved.

Not sure about 1/4, 1/2 Full - elliptical suspension however as that is just crazy stuff . I have seen a YJ near on it's side with the wheels still in contact (just not right)

 

[4Rescue]

From what I've read SOA sounds like you can run bigger tires, but lacks the flexibility of a suspension lift.

Where does the shackle reverse kit come into play?

Forgive my ignorance on suspension. I've always been more into performance before becoming a jeeper.

Nah, SOA's flex better usualy because you would tend to use a flater spring/stock soft spring rather that the highly arched and stiffer aftermarket lift springs. However, high quality leaf packs will go a long way towards leveling the playing field. Just don't expect to get a 5in spring from some of the low budget lift companies. A big concern with a SOA set-up is axle wrap because of the leverage the axle tube has over the spring when the spring is sitting on top of it.

Shackle reversals are for the front of the rig. In leaf sprung jeeps, the shackles are at the front. Consequently when you hit a bump and the spring tries to flex it's actualy pushing INTO the object it's trying to flex over. Alot of people run standard shackles (at the front) on crawlers for this exact reason. say you're coming up to an abrupt ledge you want to climb: The compression of the spring will actualy push the tire into the obstacle adding traction.

Cheers

Dave