Synthetic line choices

[bigreen505]

With the MP Superline XD you eliminate the UV exposure issue and you eliminate having to clean the rope. IMO in the long run the MP is less expensive.

I've been looking at the MP winch lines since Ric brought them up in a thread recently. I would like to get some more info on their lines - what are they made out of, how and who makes them. On the surface, their breaking strength numbers seem pretty inflated to me. I understand basically how the are assembled, but even using theoretical breaking strengths for the lines I know about, I can't even get close to their claims. That said, I think the concept of a shorter length of a thicker line with a synthetic core and poly or kevlar cover makes a lot of sense, and pair that with an extension.

Something to consider if you plan to use multiple line pulls frequently, is that a covered line can significantly increase friction compared with an uncovered line.

 

[spressomon]

I've been looking at the MP winch lines since Ric brought them up in a thread recently. I would like to get some more info on their lines - what are they made out of, how and who makes them. On the surface, their breaking strength numbers seem pretty inflated to me. I understand basically how the are assembled, but even using theoretical breaking strengths for the lines I know about, I can't even get close to their claims. That said, I think the concept of a shorter length of a thicker line with a synthetic core and poly or kevlar cover makes a lot of sense, and pair that with an extension.

Something to consider if you plan to use multiple line pulls frequently, is that a covered line can significantly increase friction compared with an uncovered line.

Don't know about more heat due to a wrapped line. The outer sheath on my XD is not near as course as either Amsteel Blue or the OR line I used prior. When you handle the XD and the others there is noticeable difference in stiffness and heft in favor of the XD. After using it I can believe the #'s could be higher than AB or OR line.

I agree a roller fairlead, especially the syn roller version, would be better than the Hawse for minimizing heat build up from friction on off-angle pulls.

 

[Master-Pull]

It will last many, many times longer. I have used other non-wrapped syn lines and they abrade rather quickly. And you absolutely need to clean them especially after use (dirt, mud, sand, etc. will accelerate the wear factor).

With the MP Superline XD you eliminate the UV exposure issue and you eliminate having to clean the rope. IMO in the long run the MP is less expensive. That's what I installed this past spring after snapping my 3-year old OR syn line. The comparative difference in heft, etc. is pronounced. And I have no connection whatsoever to MP.

Lastly...get the shortest length you can.

Just my $.02 and maybe all its worth :coffeedrink:.

I work for Master-Pull and this is all true. I recommend that every winch rope is cleaned after each use, this in turn will keep the line in better shape for a much longer period of time.

-Alex

 

[Master-Pull]

I agree a roller fairlead, especially the syn roller version, would be better than the Hawse for minimizing heat build up from friction on off-angle pulls.

As long as you are using rollers that overlap in the corners, and have not been nicked or cut they will work great.

-Alex

 

[IXNAYXJ]

I would like to get some more info on their lines - what are they made out of, how and who makes them. On the surface, their breaking strength numbers seem pretty inflated to me. I understand basically how the are assembled, but even using theoretical breaking strengths for the lines I know about, I can't even get close to their claims. That said, I think the concept of a shorter length of a thicker line with a synthetic core and poly or kevlar cover makes a lot of sense, and pair that with an extension.

The line is made out of Dyneema SK 75, a Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE), basically a plastic fiber which has been used in many applications over the years from bullet proof vests to a 30 kilometer tether used on a Russian satellite. The fiber itself is produced by a Dutch company called DSM.

While the same fiber is used in other winch line or rope applications, ours is unique for a couple reasons. For one, after being spun into rope, it is heat treated and stretched so that is approximately 20% thinner than standard Dyneema rope. That's done by a company called Hampidjan, based in Iceland. This process strengthens the rope as well; we call this Superline.

Our Superline XD is a winchline made of standard Superline with a Dyneema sheath wrapped around it, protecting it from abrasion, UV rays, dirt or sand that can get inside the core of standard synthetic ropes and degrade the strength of the rope and some heat protection.

All of our breaking strength claims come directly from the manufacturer and are lab verified and certified. There are many products that will do the job; you just need to decide how reliable/strong/durable of a winch rope you want. For me, a winchline is a last line of defense (if you'll pardon the pun) and I want it to be the best out there, but the choice is ultimately yours. We hope you choose Master-Pull.

-----Matt-----

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Just to bounce back to the original posters inquiry. I don't know much about the Viking synthetic line of products, I've heard great things about their customer service and quality but have no first hand experience particularly with the variance between their advertised WLL versus the actual breaking load on their 3/8" synthetic rope. *EDIT: Wiking actually rates their products using a MBS (Minimum Breaking Strength) so its fair to say that their rating should be considered the point at which their units have failed, could have been just one amongst a batch of sample but at any rate that is the number they are willing to stand behind. I like the fact they do the MBS versus the WLL, that will account for the variance in ratings from other advertised WLL ratings.

Vehicle Weight: 10,000 lb
Winch Pull: 12,000 lb
Winch Pull (snatched): 24,000 lb
Viking 3/8" rope rating (MBS): 17,600 lb

Lets look at a common recovery scenario. Say for example you are stuck up to your hubs in mud, on a decent incline, recovering to a tree ~50 feet in front of you. You've got 125' feet of rope so a snatch block should be no issue. The caclulated load, using the US military ratios, could be 1.5x - 1.8x the weight of your vehicle. So 15000 lbs - 18000 lbs. Your winch can handle it... but your rope is on the verge of exceeping the manufactures stated minimum breaking strength?

Would 7/16" be not more appropriate for a vehicle that weighs 5T?

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Just to bounce back to the original posters inquiry. I don't know much about the Viking synthetic line of products, I've heard great things about their customer service and quality but have no first hand experience particularly with the variance between their advertised WLL versus the actual breaking load on their 3/8" synthetic rope. *EDIT: Wiking actually rates their products using a MBS (Minimum Breaking Strength) so its fair to say that their rating should be considered the point at which their units have failed, could have been just one amongst a batch of sample but at any rate that is the number they are willing to stand behind. I like the fact they do the MBS versus the WLL, that will account for the variance in ratings from other advertised WLL ratings.

Vehicle Weight: 10,000 lb
Winch Pull: 12,000 lb
Winch Pull (snatched): 24,000 lb
Viking 3/8" rope rating (MBS): 17,600 lb

Lets look at a common recovery scenario. Say for example you are stuck up to your hubs in mud, on a decent incline, recovering to a tree ~50 feet in front of you. You've got 125' feet of rope so a snatch block should be no issue. The caclulated load, using the US military ratios, could be 1.5x - 1.8x the weight of your vehicle. So 15000 lbs - 18000 lbs. Your winch can handle it... but your rope is on the verge of exceeping the manufactures stated minimum breaking strength?

Would 7/16" be not more appropriate for a vehicle that weighs 5T?

I don't mean to pick nits or derail this thread, but your scenario is flawed. When you use a snatch block to self-recover, you are effectlively doubling the pulling power of the winch, but not the strain on the cable/rope whatever. The pully halves the strain on the winch and distributes the load between both sections of rope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley

A very good write-up that goes into far greater detail can be found here: http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/glovebox/snatch.html

To address your first point, our published breaking strengths are also rated MBS.

-----Matt-----

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I don't mean to pick nits or derail this thread, but your scenario is flawed. When you use a snatch block to self-recover, you are effectlively doubling the pulling power of the winch, but not the strain on the cable/rope whatever. The pully halves the strain on the winch and distributes the load between both sections of rope.

Um yeah, I should know that and in fact when I re-read my statement I'm baffled where I came up with that logic?? Made such sense to me earlier lol :friday: I was sitting there thinking to myself "why would they be recommending the lower MBS line". It was a laaate night.

To address your first point, our published breaking strengths are also rated MBS...

Very good, I'll take a look at your website