Synthetic winch line

[daverami]

Hi all,

I picked up a Warn M8000 and am looking to put synthetic line on it. I've done some searching and found past posts on going to a synthetic line, pros, cons, and have taken notes on the brands mentioned.

Any noteworthy updates from you people that have had synthetic line for a while? Problems, brand recommendations? I am thinking of going with Delrin rollers on an ARB bumper.

Thanks

 

[ntsqd]

[hijack]As a side note, I'm curious what your deciders were to go with polymer rollers over the more common aluminum or polymer hawse fairlead.[/hijack]

 

[DaveInDenver]

[hijack]As a side note, I'm curious what your deciders were to go with polymer rollers over the more common aluminum or polymer hawse fairlead.[/hijack]

I'd probably do Delrin rollers, too. Is there a specific reason you are asking (I suspect so)... My thinking is mostly that a roller fairlead would seem to handle pulls at bigger angles off center.

 

[IllianaXJ]

I purchased Amsteel blue syn. line several years ago, then for my Ramsey 8k, and I have since transferred it to my Tmax 9k. It is well worth the money, both in weight savings and safety. I have made quite a few pulls with it and really like it.

The box my syn. line came in was marked by UPS at 4lbs, and that included the box! For comparison, the steel cable my Tmax came with tipped the scale at 20 lbs.

As far as safety goes, you don't have to worry about steel splinters from the cable or taking out a window or your head should the cable break under load. Another plus, it won't rust like steel cable.

You do have to watch dragging it over rocks and other sharp objects, but most come with a sleeve on the last few feet on the hook end you can slide down the line to position it where needed.

As for the fairlead, if you have a brand new steel roller fairlead, you don't have to switch to Delrin rollers. It is recommended, but you don't have to. Due to the design of the ARB bumper, I had to stick with a roller fairlead instead of switching over to a hawse. I used the steel rollers I got brand new with my Tmax, but am considering purchasing the Delrin rollers from Winchline.com. -> http://www.winchline.com/fairleads.htm

Here's a pic of the line on my Tmax in my XJ's ARB:

And a better shot of the sleeve (green) from underneath:

Hope that helps...

 

[KMR]

I'd probably do Delrin rollers, too. Is there a specific reason you are asking (I suspect so)... My thinking is mostly that a roller fairlead would seem to handle pulls at bigger angles off center.

Ditto, and the roller is a larger diameter than the corner of a hawse, that means it is easier on the rope.

I love the synthetic line, I've used it more than the cable I had on there before, and it's still in better shape that the cable.
The ease of working with it and the overall lightness are a huge plus over the cable, no regrets here.

 

[KMR]

Btw: got it from Sierra Expeditions here on Portal, they have the delrin rollers as well.

 

[Jacket]

I'd probably do Delrin rollers, too. Is there a specific reason you are asking (I suspect so)... My thinking is mostly that a roller fairlead would seem to handle pulls at bigger angles off center.

This is especially true for the new Tacoma ARB bumper, since the mount for the fairlead is somewhat recessed into the bumper. Using a hawse in this application would risk putting the rope in contact with 90* bumper edges for severe angle pulls.

 

[crawler#976]

I decided on the Viking Combo line and am glad I did. Using my M8000 winch pulling beetle killed trees out of the back yard heated it up pretty good. It took me two pulls per tree at 90 degs apart to get'm out, so I made 8 pulls over a 2 hour period. The drum was too hot to touch on the final pull. Having the high temp line on the drum seemed like a mighty fine idea at that point...

The line is already showing signs of wear from using the aluminum fairlead. So far I've got a total of 20 pulls on the line, and only two of them were at better than 45 degs from the centerline.

I won't recommend the heavy duty line protector. With 100' of line on the winch it adds enough bulk to the line to make it pretty tight in the bumper (TJM T-17), and it's frayed baddly from going thru the fairlead under power and free spooling. I'd rather have two 5' lengths of the standard webbing on the line.

Mark

 

[Lost Canadian]

I'm using 80' of Viking line and delrin rollers on my 05 Tacoma. It's been great for the most part, light, easy to work with etc, but you need to use care when pulling it out. I snagged mine a couple times on brush and logs which has left a few minor frays in the line.

 

[ntsqd]

I'd probably do Delrin rollers, too. Is there a specific reason you are asking (I suspect so)... My thinking is mostly that a roller fairlead would seem to handle pulls at bigger angles off center.

Mostly curious about the why of it. Having read the other posts I can see a real advantage though I am concerned about bending the roller axle(s) in a particularly difficult pull.

 

[michaelgroves]

Mostly curious about the why of it. Having read the other posts I can see a real advantage though I am concerned about bending the roller axle(s) in a particularly difficult pull.

(Whoops, I dragged some more trig out of the dark recesses of my brain, and reached the conclusion that my first attempt at this post was all wrong, so here's what I now believe to be correct

I think the fairlead roller axles are at risk if you abuse them by pulling at huge angles. The force on the rollers is equal to 100% of the winch's capacity when you pull at an (absurd) angle of 60 degrees, going down to about 76% if you do a still-too-extreme 45 degree pull. At a more reasonable 30 degree pull, the force on the rollers drops to 52%. At a slight angle, 10 degrees, it's around 17%.

(The above calculations seem right to me, but there's still a possibility I got it wrong! If so, I'd welcome someone correcting me. I arrived at the conclusion that the pull on a fairlead or snatchblock is equal to 2 x Sin(Theta/2), where Theta is the angle from a straight pull. It's borne out by a snatchblock pull at 180 degrees, yielding a pull of 200%. i.e. 2 x sin 180/2).

The other thing one has to keep in mind is that, anyway, neither rollers nor hawses are inherently suitable for feeding ropes at severe angles. Their small diameter means that the rope itself is weakened as it comes under compression instead of tension. It's just a guess, but I would think that a rope bent at 60 degrees around a fairlead will lose between 25 and 50% of its strength.

 

[daverami]

This is especially true for the new Tacoma ARB bumper, since the mount for the fairlead is somewhat recessed into the bumper. Using a hawse in this application would risk putting the rope in contact with 90* bumper edges for severe angle pulls.

This is why I am going to do the roller fairlead. Yes, I did read where you can use steel rollers, if they are new, but like a lot of us, I am trying to save weight where I can.

The Amsteel Blue and the Viking lines are the ones that I have heard about the most, also Master-Pull, but they seems really expensive compared to the others.

Heat seems to be a big factor. Does it make sense to buy a line specifically made for high heat, or just be careful.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[michaelgroves]

Heat seems to be a big factor. Does it make sense to buy a line specifically made for high heat, or just be careful.

It depends on your winch. If your winch has a brake that heats up the drum, or if the motor tends to use the drum as a heat sink, then of course you need to use a heat resistant rope. Before you decide, try and work your own winch hard for an hour or two and see how hot the drum gets!

Of course if you get a proper hydraulic or mechanical winch, instead of one of the electric toys, then it's not an issue at all... :wings:

 

[Clark White]

For a warn M8000, would you suggest the high temp, or would regular synthetic line be just fine? And also, would I need to do anything to the drum since I have been using steel cable for a few years and it has probably put some abrasions on the drum? Thanks!

 

[p1michaud]

Warn M8000 and synthetic line.

A good winch line is a wise investment for a few reasons as already stated:
-Safety both in handling and failure of the line
-Low weight
As with every other modification is comes at a cost and in this case it's durability. That being said, if you take good care of your line it will last you along time and serve you well.

I've been playing with a synthetic line for about 2 years now, and would say that once you with a synthetic line you won't be going back to steel.

Heat seems to be a big factor. Does it make sense to buy a line specifically made for high heat, or just be careful.

A few things to consider with respect to heat generation with your winch:
-The winch pulling power decreases as the rope distance increases from the drum (i.e. as the rope layer increases during winching).
-As per the Owner's manual, the M8000 is only designed to run for 30 seconds at 8000lbs then it must be allowed to cool for 10 min. In most practical situations this run time is exceeded.
-Both long pulls or winching "down" will generate quite a bit of heat.
-Many other factors play into this as well such as your electrical support system, rigging, etc...

What I'm trying to say is avoid pulls when you only have short lenghts of rope out, don't use your winch to lower someone down a hill (winching down). Try to minimize your winch run time under load and make sure your rigging is set up properly (use a snatch block for example). If you understand all the factors that affect heat build up then avoid them where possible, you should be fine with a normal synthetic line. To date mine has held up fine and it has seen some hard pulls. Last year on a snow run, I travelled approximately 1600 ft nearly all at the end of a winch line!

I won't recommend the heavy duty line protector. With 100' of line on the winch it adds enough bulk to the line to make it pretty tight in the bumper (TJM T-17), and it's frayed baddly from going thru the fairlead under power and free spooling. I'd rather have two 5' lengths of the standard webbing on the line.

Interesting, I was going to recommend the exact oposite! I've gone from two 5' length of standard webbing to one lenght of 10' standard webbing. Perhaps the difference is that I was not using the heavy duty line protector and only 80' of line. I prefer the single 10' lenght of line protector for handling reasons.

Happy winch line shopping!