Synthetic winch rope

[Aubrey]

Sorry if this has been answered before ....could not find it though.

Synthetic winch rope ... any good? Know the strength is spot on and better than wire rope, carefull with dirt on it bt but main concern, how does it handle extended exposure to harsh UV radiation (like what we have in Africa). EXpected life span?

Thank you for your thoughts in advance.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I will relay my comments from a similar thread (different forum)

I have never seen a wire rope break, I hope I never do as I have seen plenty of pics... However I have seen several synthetic ropes break... enough that I continue to run steel. There are places for both of them by all means, but for the type of stuff I do, I don't think the synthetic would hold up too long.

The synthetics that I have seen break were all showing signs prior, they do not fair well against rocks, trees, etc IMHO. I have also seen them "melt" to the drum to the point they couldn't be unwrapped.

It really depends on the places you intend to use them... for a self-recovery setup, go syntehtic as it is safer. For a multi-purpose (move rocks, trees, roll over rigs, winch "around" corners, etc... I prefer the steel. However, I have vowed to try a synthetic on my rig (we have run them on comp rigs for the past couple seasons).

With the wire rope, it is all about maintainance... as I mentioned, I have never seen one break, but I have seen some horrible shape ones still in use (kinks, frays, etc)

 

[Nullifier]

Mine is 2 years pld and had a hellasish work out last month. I now some florida rigs that have had it for 5 years and no problems. I doubt the uv is worse in africa then Florida.

 

[Aubrey]

In 18 years of off-roading, I have used my winch once for myself. Many times for others in the party ..... with my suspension setup and ARB's front and rear, few things to worry about when accompanied by std. LandRovers.

I unwind the steel rope every six months and wash with a warm, soap water solution, rinse with clean water and allow to dry. Lately I spray a thin layer of chain wax (wax we use on quad chains) and let it dry. Not oily and gives good rust protection .... (found if I spray whole quad before I hit the coatsal areas, no rust afterwards)

As I would have to import, making winch rope around the US$ 290 vs US$ 90 for wire .....guess I'll have to wait a little longer.

Thanx for your replies.

 

[Colorado Ron]

I have both. Front is rope and rear is wire. I really like the rope, as it doesnt kink and no worry of small pieces of metal goin thru the glove and stabbin me. But I still dont trust it 100%. Thats why I use wire in the rear.

 

[UncleChris]

Just swapped out my wire rope for synthetic last night.(5/16X125, $205 at OKOffroad)

Much easier to handle than the wire and since I am not looking to use it for anything other than recovery I think it will fit the bill.

Note though, with my ARB bumper, I was not able to use a hawse fairlead. The ARB is designed for a roller, and if I used a hawse it would scrape against the edges of the bumper. Had to pick up some delrin rollers. It came with about a 10' abrasion resistant sleeve.

Will let you know how it fares.

 

[ldivinag]

tip:

buy either steel or rope in a short length. like 50 feet. then buy an extension. rememeber, your winch likes it when there are less wraps on the drum. just keep a minimum 5 wraps, like what warn recommends...

 

[michaelgroves]

Synthetic is better than steel cable in almost all respects. (I am referring to "proper" UHMWPE ropes, not webbing or other types of synthetic that you sometimes see on winches).

Advantages:

• Safer - harmless if it breaks
• Safer - frayed steel cable will rip your hands
• Stronger (size for size)
• Lighter - this is a big one for expeditions
• Easier to handle - makes complex rigging and re-rigging much quicker
• Doesn't damage itself when criss-crossed on the drum
• Can be spliced if it breaks
• Doesn't rust

Disadvantages:

• Expensive
• Vulnerable to cutting and abrasion - care needed when rigging
• Apparent softness makes users forget basic winch safety (gloves, hands clear etc.)
• Unsuitable for hot winches - if the drum gets very hot (some winches use the drum to dissipate heat), the rope can melt

Obviously, there are circumstances under which steel is better - for example if you can't avoid chafing, or you have a hot winch (in which case the synthetic option doesn't exist).

Unless it gets snagged, cut or melted, synthetic rope will take much more tension than steel cable of the same diameter, without breaking. More importantly, if it does break, there are no lethal ends flying around.

I've had Amsteel Blue synthetic on my winch for 4 years now, and it's seen a lot of action. I am careful with it, and it is undamaged.

My 2p worth!

M...

 

[Scott Brady]

Great feedback Michael.

The key is proper rigging and avoiding pulling the cable into the ground.

Winchline.com is a good source, and they have the new ultra-light delrin roller fairleads, etc.

 

[BajaTaco]

FWIW, the melting syndrome commonly referred to in a lot of "synthetic vs. wire" discussions is only true for the common UHMWPE. The UHMWPE synth winch line (like Amsteel blue) is susceptible to heat damage, but there is also a Technora aramid fiber rope that has been around for years now, with a high heat threshold. X-Line is one of the brands that uses this type of rope.

"X-Line™ ... has a decomposition temperature of 932°F, and can be used at 400°F for long periods of time. Even at 490°F, it maintains more than half of its tensile strength that was measured at room temperature. This is 3 times better than UHMWPE fibers currently in use and has been a major concern by winch manufactures regarding the use of fiber ropes."

HERE is a review article explaining it a little more.

Bottom line is that each type of synth rope has it's advantages/disadvantages when matched against the other, but heat doesn't need to be a factor any more really. I believe MasterPull line and others are now using a heat-shield sleeve for the first few wraps on the drum, so even the UHMWPE ropes are safe. Ramsey is using the Technora stuff. If I were buying synth line as a replacement for my wire rope, I would just make sure that I bought either the Technora type, or UHMWPE with the shielding on it. No biggie

 

[bigreen505]

Warning, long and rambling

I'll take what Chris wrote a step further, though I probably should not have. Synthetic winch line is just standard run of the mill high-tech, single braid sailboat line, which in some cases is just repurposed from fishing boats. Fisheries Supply, Annapolis Performance Sailing and Layline, just to name a few, all have several types of line that will work well, usually about $1.50/ft - $1.80/ft depending on size. Amsteel Blue is good (which is very different from Amsteel -- probably not ideal for this application), Lightning Rope, Ultrex, D12, Technora, AS-78 (aka Dynex Dux 75), etc., all could work well. Stay away from PBO as it is allergic to UV. I would also stay away from Vectran unless it is blended with spectra/Dyneema because, while it is more UV stable and stronger than Dyneema, it does not handle chafe well.

I think the heat issue may be a bit over stated. If you are concerned, have a sleeve made to cover the first wrap of the drum with MGP Nomex Cover Only as it will absorb more heat than a cordura sleeve (which is absolute king for chafe protection). If you are really paranoid, figure out how much wire you need for one wrap of the drum and have that length of wire spliced into a synthetic rope so you have wire for the first 20' and synthetic for the next 80'.

Also, as Chris pointed out, each line has its strengths and achilles heels and you need to know as much about the different options and how to work around specific compromises before you buy. For example, Dyneema (Amsteel et. al.) degrade under high heat and exposure to UV light, but the line is slippery allowing it to handle chafe well -- remember chafe means both external (on a rock) and internal (line fibers against line fibers). Aramid (Kevlar, Technora, to some degree Vectran) is pretty strong and impervious to everything but cannot handle any chafe well (external as well as internal) and it does not degrade slowly, it just blows up (edit -- also not stable in the presence of solvents, so be careful about spilling engine fluids on it). This is why a lot of new lines are a blend of fibers, like Dyneema and Vectran -- Vectran can handle the high loads while the Dyneema reduces internal chafe thereby significantly raising breaking loads and allowing a smaller diameter line.

Lots of options, and while synthetic line is relatively new to the off-road world, it is old hat in the marine industry and a lot of the problems have already been thought through. You just have to ask the right questions to the right people, I'm just suggesting that perhaps in this one instance, your local 4x4 shop is not the right people to ask.

 

[michaelgroves]

You just have to ask the right questions to the right people, I'm just suggesting that perhaps in this one instance, your local 4x4 shop is not the right people to ask.

Good advice! Many of the 4x4 places try to brand their ropes too heavily (make it uniquely special, charge a higher price), even though they just buy it from a wholesaler, and cut and splice it into winch lines. Then the information they provide tends to be incomplete, eg. quoting average tensile strength rather than minimum breaking stength, and failing to mention possible weaknesses such as abrasion and UV resistance. Sometimes they don't even divulge the manufacturer, so it's impossible to get the full information. I have a sneaking suspicion that some resellers exaggerate the specifications of the rope too - other things being equal, consumers will (quite logically) choose an 9000kg rope over an 8000kg one, even if they have a 4000kg winch. Since they will never break either rope, there is every temptation for the reseller to overstate the specs. After all, even if the rope DOES break, it will be under abusive conditions, so the last few thousand kilos hardly matters.

 

[vanguard]

consumers will (quite logically) choose an 9000kg rope over an 8000kg one, even if they have a 4000kg winch. Since they will never break either rope, there is every temptation for the reseller to overstate the specs. After all, even if the rope DOES break, it will be under abusive conditions, so the last few thousand kilos hardly matters.

It's worth noting that a snatch block can help you create loads far greater than your winch is rated for so if you plan to use one (or more) of them you could need a serious rope.

 

[Gear]

Pretention synthetic line?

Just installed a synthetic line on my Warn 9.5Ti winch. Do I need to put it under a load to spool it on. Or just simple hand feed it on.

Thanks

 

[mountainpete]

Just installed a synthetic line on my Warn 9.5Ti winch. Do I need to put it under a load to spool it on. Or just simple hand feed it on.

Thanks

According to my understanding of the instructions that came with my new line, the first number of wraps should be very tight, after that it can be a hand feed as long as it doesn't get too "puffy" on the drum.

Pete