Tacoma auxiliary battery charging system/solar inverter

[juicifer]

Can anyone recommend a 12V battery for an auxiliary power system, and for future use with a solar panel? It must be some form of “deep cycle” so I can drain it all the way down without damaging it. I also need a recommendation for a battery charging system and/or inverter.
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My intent is to plug in the “battery charger” device into the 400W outlet in the bed of my Tacoma, and charge the extra battery located in the bed while I’m driving. I’d like to add a solar panel to the system later on if possible. So technically I need an AC to DC converter to charge the battery and the an inverter to pull power back from the battery. It seems like this requirement very similar to a solar management system already, so a solar panel will be plug and play when I get one.
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Anyone have a good resource for this stuff?
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Thanks!

 

[Tim A]

Using the bed plug is a good idea. Subscribed for more info.

 

[steve103]

talk to or go to a marine supply store. the one they use is to charge a battery by pluging it in to a outlet. so this style should be what you are looking for. there is some really great ones that would power a saw/small compressor, but the drawback is that the alternator will need to be upgraded to run the transformer. keep looking and asking questions and all will be revealed.

west marine is a great place to start.

 

[Tim A]

Here is the mod to get 400w power from the inverter while driving the truck:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/156894-how-inverter-400w-anytime-mod.html

 

[Tim A]

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My intent is to plug in the “battery charger” device into the 400W outlet in the bed of my Tacoma, and charge the extra battery located in the bed while I'm driving. I'd like to add a solar panel to the system later on if possible. So technically I need an AC to DC converter to charge the battery and the an inverter to pull power back from the battery. It seems like this requirement very similar to a solar management system already, so a solar panel will be plug and play when I get one.
*

Seems like you'd have to stick with a small battery charger (for your "house" battery) if you're limited to 400w. Maybe that's why you want to upgrade the OEM inverter?

If you get a 6A house battery charger and plug it into the 110v bed outlet, it will pull 660w. Is the math correct? watts = volts x amps?

 

[Jeff Wanamog]

What?

You lost me. You are going from DC to AC back to DC and then to what, why?
Why don't you just keep it simple. Add a second battery, any deep cycle, you choose the amp hour rating according by what you are running off of the battery for how long. Run a National Luna charge controller that will keep the batteries separate or combine them as you choose. This will charge the second battery after the trucks battery has charged for a while.
Then, the only time you use the inverter is to run AC devices.

Or, maybe then again, I am missing something here.

Jeff

 

[Andy@AAV]

Using the bed inverter to run a charger for long periods is a bad idea. The problem is that every affordable inverter uses a modified sine wave. When using this to run a charger you will lose efficiency and burn up the charger fast due to the "chopped" voltage running into it. You can buy full sine wave inverters but they are $$$$.

The better solution is a second battery running off a charge controller as stated above. I'm running the national Luna controller hooked to a sears die hard platinum (odyssey rebadge) group 34 on a home made mounting plate.

 

[steve103]

Here is the mod to get 400w power from the inverter while driving the truck:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/156894-how-inverter-400w-anytime-mod.html

only problem with this is that you are trying to run too much power through to small a wire and this is bad. if you do this you need to upgrade the wire size.

 

[Tim A]

only problem with this is that you are trying to run too much power through to small a wire and this is bad. if you do this you need to upgrade the wire size.

The inverter runs @ 400 watts while the truck is running and stationary. When you start driving it drops to 100W (I think it's 100W, it may be 150W) So doesn't that mean that the wire is capable of handling 400W?

But for some reason, Toyota intended for the inverter to lose power while the truck is moving. Maybe some other electrical component (like the alternator?) is what needs to be upgraded in order to have 400W anytime without borrowing juice from something else in the truck.

 

[juicifer]

Seems like you'd have to stick with a small battery charger (for your "house" battery) if you're limited to 400w. Maybe that's why you want to upgrade the OEM inverter?

If you get a 6A house battery charger and plug it into the 110v bed outlet, it will pull 660w. Is the math correct? watts = volts x amps?

You have DC on the outlet of the charger and a lower voltage, so it's more like 6A*14V=84W, plus a the power factor. But that's still well below the 400W available.

 

[juicifer]

Using the bed inverter to run a charger for long periods is a bad idea. The problem is that every affordable inverter uses a modified sine wave. When using this to run a charger you will lose efficiency and burn up the charger fast due to the "chopped" voltage running into it. You can buy full sine wave inverters but they are $$$$.

The better solution is a second battery running off a charge controller as stated above. I'm running the national Luna controller hooked to a sears die hard platinum (odyssey rebadge) group 34 on a home made mounting plate.

You have a good point, even if the charger is rated for inverter duty it's probably getting a crappy signal quality at best. I'll look into the Luna thing...

 

[juicifer]

You lost me. You are going from DC to AC back to DC and then to what, why?
Why don't you just keep it simple. Add a second battery, any deep cycle, you choose the amp hour rating according by what you are running off of the battery for how long. Run a National Luna charge controller that will keep the batteries separate or combine them as you choose. This will charge the second battery after the trucks battery has charged for a while.
Then, the only time you use the inverter is to run AC devices.

Or, maybe then again, I am missing something here.

Jeff

Kind of, ultimately I want AC power via a second battery and a solar panel. I'd like to hold off on the panel for now and just use the truck to charge the second battery. I think you might be right, easier to just let the alternator and Luna switch do the work, and put a nice inverter on the second battery output somehow, to run laptops and such.

 

[Tim A]

The Nat'l Luna is slick but expensive.

I'd like to see something like the NL portable power pack, only that runs off AC (truck bed outlet), and a LOT less expensive. Homemade might be the only way to go unless there's something like that commercially available.

 

[Finlay]

The Nat'l Luna is slick but expensive.

I'd like to see something like the NL portable power pack, only that runs off AC (truck bed outlet), and a LOT less expensive. Homemade might be the only way to go unless there's something like that commercially available.

The trouble is that this doesn't make any sense. Every conversion from DC to AC and back incorporates loss. Plus, its more things to break/lose/manage.

It adds complexity for a loss in performance and reliability.

The truck comes with a built in battery charger - the alternator. You're way better off using that. The NL is pricey. That's because it is a nice piece of engineering and finish in a tidy package. And it's a niche market.

The first kid on the block with a color TV paid through the nose, too.

You're correct that you can roll your own for far less than that. Start simple - get a manual remote battery isolator and a couple voltmeters. Less than 100 bucks and you've got 80% of the functionality of the NL unit. You have to have the attention to detail to use it though - it's not automatic - but it's 1/5 the cost. A solar supply is easy enough to add to this.

You can add logic to it later - Raspberry Pi, Arduino - hell Lego Mindstorms - are all way more powerful than you need, small and well established platforms for development. You can roll your own logic, but that's a much harder task. This is admittedly much more ambitious, but it's not undoable.

If you don't know how to do this, or want to learn or want someone local to talk to about it - find a nearby HAM club. Those dudes don't push 1500 watts out the 10meter array using the stock power system either. Or your local car stereo store. Point is, these are solved problems - although our particular problem domain is slightly different, the power consumption is an issue other related mobile fields have learned to deal with for decades.

 

[Tim A]

Here's one:

http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=4358

Charges from AC, DC or solar. Max power is 350 watt hours and 400w from the inverter.

Review by Corey (he uses a solar panel)

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/62848-Goal-Zero-Ranger-350-Kit