tacoma suspension up grades

[Nullifier]

Ok so in about 6 weeks I am getting a nice check owed to me. The wife says I have to spend half on the house LOL! The rest can go into the truck.

I am going to try and get all my suspension gearing etc done. Here are my thoughts. upper a arms either camburg,TCF or All Pro. Probably doesn't matter which, they all seem real close. Either Camburg or Extended Donahoes. Do you guys think the extended donahoes offer that much more travel? I know the camburg are good shocks and are 100 cheaper. Since I have Manual hubs I can probably skip the diff drop.

In the rear I have a real debate. I know I am going to run deavers. I talked to them about getting a custom eye made big enough to hole those AOR orbit eyes. You guys have any thoughts on that?

Also In the shock Department I was thinking Ranhco 9000 adjustables with in cab controller but wanted to get some feed back. Of course I could run Bilstein, Racerunner, or 100 others so what are your recommendations for rear shocks.

I am planning on 4.88 gears rear ARB locker and 33x10.50x15 tires. I know the trends now is the 16" rims with 255/85's but I am not interested in buying new wheels at this time.

I am also going to get that budbuilt clocking kit with cross member, twin stick, sway bar disconnects, New clutch, then build my new full length starboard skid plate, and the power inverter I need to finish my custom electrical box set up in the bed. I will be a busy little bee putting all this in by the end of the year but THat will almost finish the mechanical side of the truck.

 

[Suty]

HOLY FRIJOLES BATMAN, You are going to be busy...All of your Ideas are great. I wished I had the pockets to finish mine up. I spent most of mine last stash O'cash on my Harley. I can't see any faults in your plans..I run Bilstiens, with Downey Coilovers and add a leaf. I'm thinking of changing it all out for the All Pro set up. I would really like to get a set of the Bushwacker Pocket flares, they say they don't fit the D/C's. However, they show them on a D/C on their website. Keep me posted , and I'll help you if I can. Tu Compadre, Suty

 

[Scott Brady]

Ok so in about 6 weeks I am getting a nice check owed to me. The wife says I have to spend half on the house LOL! The rest can go into the truck.

I am going to try and get all my suspension gearing etc done. Here are my thoughts. upper a arms either camburg,TCF or All Pro. Probably doesn't matter which, they all seem real close. Either Camburg or Extended Donahoes. Do you guys think the extended donahoes offer that much more travel? I know the camburg are good shocks and are 100 cheaper. Since I have Manual hubs I can probably skip the diff drop..

I am not a fan of the control arms, mostly from a noise/maintenance situation. I am also not a fan of long travel without upgrading to high angle CV's, as the additional travel allows the stock CV's to operate at an extreme load (the cage has minimal contact) and can lead to failure at full droop.

I know the Donahoe uses a higher quality spring and the flutter valve, which helps with slow speed sensitivity. That could be the $100 cost difference.

My recommendation would be to skip long travel and skip the 9000's with controller. Just go with OME or Bilsteins in the back and keep it simple. (see more logic to this further on).

In the rear I have a real debate. I know I am going to run deavers. I talked to them about getting a custom eye made big enough to hole those AOR orbit eyes. You guys have any thoughts on that?

I would run standard Deavers, and get the 9 leaf. Unless you plan on doing custom shock mount work, the shocks are the limit to travel in the rear. Not the springs. The AOR orbit eyes are cool, but would not actually provide any benefit without long shocks. My rear has about 12" of travel, which is excellent!

Also In the shock Department I was thinking Ranhco 9000 adjustables with in cab controller but wanted to get some feed back. Of course I could run Bilstein, Racerunner, or 100 others so what are your recommendations for rear shocks.

I would not recommend the 9000 shocks. There is better shock technology available now. I prefer the OME. The new Donahoe remotes are sweet, but more cash.

I am planning on 4.88 gears rear ARB locker and 33x10.50x15 tires. I know the trends now is the 16" rims with 255/85's but I am not interested in buying new wheels at this time.

I like the 33x10.5, great size (I have those on my Jeep).

Ok, so IMO (for what it is worth), I would avoid all of the exotic suspension stuff, long-travel, etc. Go with the stock Donahoes or SAW and a Deaver 9 leaf. THEN, use the money you saved to install a front ARB. Have lockers front and rear will get you much better performance than long travel, or a remote control shock system.

 

[BajaTaco]

I agree with Scott on the uni-ball arms. I think the money is much better spent on something else. Having manual hubs alleviates that a little bit, but not much.

I also agree with Scott on the orbit eyes. However - Scott recommends a 9-leaf pack. I think that should depend on what the weight of the back half of your truck is. If you plan to keep an open bed and not have a lot of weight over stock - Scott do you think 8 leafs is more appropriate? (he is going to do skids and has a custom bumper).

For rear shocks - once again, I concur with Scott.

Lastly, I will say that I think you are taking a bit of a chance putting 33" tires on a 2.5" lift, unless you plan on doing some considerable clearancing work to avoid rubbing the tires a lot when on the trails.

 

[Nullifier]

Thanks for the pointed feed back. That is why I am glad I joined this forum. No here say, opinions that matter from the guys who know.

Thanks for clearing up the extended coilover issue. I guess your right if I'm not running baja I probably won't need it. I heard a few people make coments about the unibal squek but didn't really think it was that big a deal. Since both of you have mentioned it I will consider not doing this now. Maybe when Donahoe comes out with theres it will be more queit and worth upgrading.

My original thought on rear shocks was bilstein. What do you think makes the OME shocks as good. I am planning on adding a cross member in the rear to triangulate the shocks for beter travel.

I am still up in the air on the rear springs but your opinion is noted in running standard deavers. Obvioulsy alot of trips are weekend outings, but there will be times when we will be out for a month. I am still trying to deside on leaf count and am debating between 8 & 9 count. SOme more feed back on that would be great. I am working on beter balancing my truck. I have quite a few goodies for the bed planned so I will have some wieght back there.

I have also debated on the 32" vs 33" tire thing. I have no issues trimming back some material in the wheel well since this is a trail truck not my daily. I figure that the .5" or so gained in tire hieght would only help on super tuff trails but I do like to go to tellico and places like that as well.

Lastly on the front locker issue. with out a doubt the locker outwieghs the arms or orbits or anything else in traction. I have really avoided this topic for now since I have mixed emotions. In some ways I feel that the locker is going to help me break more cv's. Obviously not the kind of thing you want to happen on the trail. I was considering an LSD in the front. It will give alittle help without the steering and breakage issues. I don't know what do you guys think on the front LSD locker thing.

 

[Scott Brady]

I am running the Bilsteins, but don't really care for them. They are too stiffly valved IMO. They have poor low impact sensitivity, which makes the ride a little jarring on rough surfaces.

I like the OME shocks because of the HD construction and the better slow speed valving. The dual tube design resists dings better (or at least, they continue to work if a small ding occurs).

Having run both now, I just prefer the OME

I would not recommend the 8 leaf pack for a truck used for camping. Everyone I have talked with that went 7 or 8 leaf, and uses the truck with a load have all upgraded to at least a 9 leaf.

For a trail only truck, the 8 would be great, just not with a load...

 

[Desertdude]

Agreed on the 8 leaf debate - the 8 leafs were fine until I loaded another 200 lbs into the back bed

Scott - Which Bilsteins are you running? 5100's ? have the 5150 Bilsteins (extra reservoir) Not having any experiance with the OME the 5150's appear to be very smooth - although one mount tip came loose and had to be welded in a pinch - (should have applied some loctite on the nut before mounting)

 

[Scott Brady]

I am running the 5100's.

I have heard that the reservoir shocks you are running are a little more plush.

I also don't want it to sound like a "hate" the Bilsteins either. They are fantastic at high speed, and exhibit very little fade. All things I need too...

 

[Desertdude]

your research is always thorough and real world experience opinions respected - I view you as the "Switzerland of equipment advice" always directed towards the needs of the user - not brand specific.


Note: after my shock mount came loose I removed the shock for a quick weld repair - the shock travel was much easier than when it first was mounted - meaning after 7 months of moderate/heavy use it was all ready fading somewhat...

 

[BajaTaco]

Getting back to the coilover/arms issue, I think by just disconnecting or removing the swaybar, you will be getting the most travel out of the IFS while still maintaining a reasonable amount of CV joint integrity.

Regarding Bilsteins, I too have used them on a few different vehicles and like them. The last pair I had was on my current Tacoma, and I felt like they actually softened up quite a bit and didn't control body roll as well, but had a nice ride to them. They were the 5100 series. I had removed them to keep as spares, but they now reside on Crawler976's '98 Tacoma.

Regarding the double-wall tubes on the OMEs, there is an advantage in durability regarding denting the outer tubes, but also keep in mind that the double-tube does not disspate heat as well as monotube, as the heat can build in the void between the two tubes. I have no idea if there is any realistic performance difference or not on your particular truck - it is probably negligible. However, with my heavy truck, regular diameter rear shocks can get VERY hot and fade prematurely. I now have 2.5" reservoir shocks to address that issue.

You mentioned triangulating the shocks. Keep in mind that you will lose damping performance the more you move the shocks away from parallel to the sides of the truck, and the further they are from vertical. This is not such a big deal for trucks that mostly crawl on trails, but if you go fast on trails as well, you may want to consider the trade-off. Read the "geometry" section of this article.

On the topic of leaf springs - you may want to consider using extended rear shackles to get more efficient use out of the springs. This allows less arch to be required for the springs to achieve a desired amount of lift, and allows the spring travel to increase with less of an arched spring. This is purely optional though. I think extended shackles are going for around $60 or so.

I haven't used a LSD front end, but I'm not sure I would want to use it on slippery roads. I prefer the "yes it is locked" or "no, it is open" kind of decision making. You are correct that the front locker will expose you to more risk of CV breakage. I think carrying a spare CV axle, tools to change it out, and the knowledge to do so is prudent in this case. It's easy to learn how to do it, so shouldn't be a major detractor in your decision if you want the added trail capability of the front locker. I think the biggest drawback is the cost if anything. If you are already breaking CV's with an open front diff, then I probably would not get the locker .

Regarding 32's/33's, this was discussed at length at 4wdtrips.net and each side of the coin has it's advantages and disadvantages. Both sizes can be viewed as a good decision. Making the decision however, is a very difficult one for many people, myself included.

 

[BajaTaco]

Oh yea, you may already be aware of these issues, but I will post for anyone who may be reading this:

95-04 Tacoma suspension upgrade - "hidden mods"

1. Brake Proportioning valve

2. E-brake cable contacting thicker leaf packs, and Extending Rear Brake Line

3. More rear axle travel can mean dented shock cans

4. Disconnecting the front sway bar

 

[Nullifier]

I knew about the Brack line and possible conflict with thicker leaf pack. I was wondering about the BPV bracket and if Would have to relocate some of it. Thanks for the limk tot he article. That is an easy mod but I see critical.

 

[p1michaud]

Tacoma rear suspension upgrade

Hi folks,
After a few years of putting up with my rear suspension set up , I’m going to replace my rear leafs and shocks. I’m driving a 1999 Tacoma, Extended Cab, 4x4, with the V6 with a Leer shell along with a few recovery items and tools. My load varies between 400 to 900 lbs in the rear including the shell and gear mentioned above. After discussing with a few members and Scott Borne at Deaver Spring, I will be purchasing a set of the Deaver Rear 9 leaf Springs along with a set of Bilstein 5150 shocks, part number BF5-A195-H1 (8.33” of travel, 22.50” extended and 14.17” collapsed).

I do have a few questions:

1-Do the Deavers re-locate the rear axle 0.5” forward to center your rear wheel in the wheel well?

2-Do you have to replace the U-bolts with longer ones or will the factory ones long enough?

3-With this set up, would I have to make any other modifications besides:
• Adjusting the Brake Proportioning valve
• E-brake cable contacting thicker leaf packs
• Extending Rear Brake Line

Some of the items I was concerned about here were:
A-Having to extend the bump stops by 1” to eliminate the possibility of bottoming out the shocks? I will be measuring for proper travel as BajaTaco described but how do you do this safely (i.e. without crawling under a truck that is being held in place by a jack? For those of you that have measured, did you block the truck in place?

B-Do you have to correct the pinion angle via tapered shims? See below for more details.

C-With the increased rear axle travel, is there a possibility of contacting or denting the shock cans with the Bilstein 5150?


Correcting the rear pinion angle when lifting your vehicle.
I have a few minor vibrations that show up between 55 to 65 MPH on the Tacoma and have been doing some research. I checking my rear drive line angles as per Roger Brown’s Driveline 101 page and my angle was off by about 5 degrees. This might lead to some drive line vibrations. I have also discussed the issue with Roger and here is what he had to say: “If you have a driveshaft of X" long and a pinion flange that sticks out Y" from the centerline of the axle. For every degree you tip the pinion up or down, it will move Y*sin(angle) inches up or down. Since the driveshaft is bolted to the pinion flange it'll move up or down the same amount. And so for every X/Y degrees of tilt on the pinion the driveshaft angle will lower by 1 degree. A typical 2-piece Tacoma driveshaft is around 29-30" long (on the rear half) and the pinion should be the same 11" from the center line of the rear axle, so your ratio is 29/11 or 2.6:1. If you are 5 degrees low on the pinion angle and you want to end up about 1-2 degrees low, a shim of about 3 degrees will tip the pinion up 3 degrees and also drop the driveshaft angle a little over 1 degree, netting you about 4 degrees of correction."

So having read all this, have any of you with lifted Tacoma (~2") corrected your rear pinion angle?

Cheers :beer: and sorry for the long post! :Wow1:
P

 

[Scott Brady]

P,

In response to your questions:

1. Yes, unless otherwise specified, all Deaver pack are delivered with the .5" forward pin position.

2. U-Bolts should be replaced everytime the springs are removed. U-Bolts are fine thread and deform slightly at the final torque specification. U-Bolts should not be re-used

3. Exactly

The critical thing to remember about multi-leaf, progressive springs is that they cannot be overloaded and flexed. Most factory leaf packs are dual stage (with the overload) for that reason, but results in a crappy ride.

The key thing with the Deavers (Alcans, National, etc.) is that your weight estimates must be correct. Running 8-900lbs. with an 8 leaf pack will kill them in short order when off-road.

 

[p1michaud]

Nearly have all my information

1. Yes, unless otherwise specified, all Deaver pack are delivered with the .5" forward pin position.
...
The key thing with the Deavers (Alcans, National, etc.) is that your weight estimates must be correct. Running 8-900lbs. with an 8 leaf pack will kill them in short order when off-road.

Scott,
I would also assume that Deaver marks the leaf packs for left and right as well as forward/backward for proper orientation during installation?

Before placing my order, I will be going to a local scale to get accurate weight measurements

Do you have any comments with respect to the concerns listed below?

Some of the items I was concerned about here were:
A-Having to extend the bump stops by 1” to eliminate the possibility of bottoming out the shocks? I will be measuring for proper travel as BajaTaco described but how do you do this safely (i.e. without crawling under a truck that is being held in place by a jack? For those of you that have measured, did you block the truck in place?

B-Do you have to correct the pinion angle via tapered shims?

I had also heard rumors that Donahoe Racing had new shocks for the tacoma and here was the response I got from them:"Our Rear Reservoir Shocks for the 96-04 Tacoma are available now. They are great for on and off-road performance. They improve handling with stock applications and improve performance with aftermarket leaf springs. They are applicable on Tacoma with 0-3" of lift in the rear. They are covered by a life time warranty and will out perform any other shocks on the market. They usually go for around 199 a piece and are a great addition to your truck if you are looking for improved ride quality and performance."

This might be an interesting alternative. I replied asking for more details so we will wait and see!
Cheers :beer:,
P