David Harris
Expedition Leader
That's only state regulations. What about federal regs, which I am talking about here. These come into play at ports of entry.
Taking diesel converted Rover out of the country
- Thread starter David Harris
- Start date
That's only state regulations. What about federal regs, which I am talking about here. These come into play at ports of entry.
Viggen
Just here...
Well, thats a pretty obvious thing there. You come out of Canada with a truck that is going to be RHD, still have an English registration and papers and will be newer than the 1985 (current) import limitation. Thatll be obvious. I doubt that a USDM Disco with a non stock motor is going to be a blip on their screen. They will ask you for your ID at the border crossing, what you are planning on doing there and what the length of stay is going to be.
Lets not forget that the border crossings are like toll booths:
Read this link about tips for crossing into Canada.
http://www.gonorthwest.com/Visitor/planning/border/border.htm
There is mention of registration and nothing else. I think that you are overthinking it. Do you honestly think that they are going to inspect your car for EPA adherence at the border crossing? If you have ID, answer questions honestly, give them a legit registration from your state that is for your vehicle that is operating in a safe and responsible way, why would they feel the need to pull out the EPA guidebook, research your specific vehicle and compare it to your vehicles current standard? Just about everything is illegal when it comes to the EPA.
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David Harris
Expedition Leader
Well, thats a pretty obvious thing there. You come out of Canada with a truck that is going to be RHD, still have an English registration and papers and will be newer than the 1985 (current) import limitation. Thatll be obvious. I doubt that a USDM Disco with a non stock motor is going to be a blip on their screen. They will ask you for your ID at the border crossing, what you are planning on doing there and what the length of stay is going to be.
Lets not forget that the border crossings are like toll booths:
Read this link about tips for crossing into Canada. There is mention of registration and nothing else. I think that you are overthinking it. Do you honestly think that they are going to inspect your car for EPA adherence at the border crossing? If you have ID, answer questions honestly, give them a legit registration from your state that is for your vehicle that is operating in a safe and responsible way, why would they feel the need to pull out the EPA guidebook, research your specific vehicle and compare it to your vehicles current standard? Just about everything is illegal when it comes to the EPA.
I agree. As others have said as well, this is the least risk way of doing it. You would have to avoid shipping the vehicle. You'd have to drive it across, and then ship it from there and vice-versa. Doesn't mean that they can't, or won't ever catch you, but the chances are nil unless you hit a random screening or something. Actually, even within the U.S. you could technically get fined for not meeting federal regs by any state trooper. For example, when I bought my Disco, the PO had removed the cats and replaced them with straight pipes. I don't have emissions checks where I am (don't you wish, Viggen . . .
), so it's no big deal. But if I happen to run across the right trooper who looks under my vehicle for cats, he could fine me 10,000 dollars for violating federal EPA regs on removing emissions equipment. Same for ABS or other federally mandated safety equipment. I have read of this happening rarely on forums, but have never personally known someone who had a problem unless it was a state inspection.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I drove across the border daily for a few years with a highly modified vehicle. Never had an issue on either side.
I'm not even going to bother reading anything after my last post...speculate all you want, here's the reality
It's very simple to DRIVE your truck to either Mexico or Canada... when in secondary, they run the plates to make sure it's not stolen, check your tags, your registration and insurance. while this is going they run your id, have a drug dog search your truck and then if all is well, let you go...
When SHIPPING your truck, you have to get out of the country legally first. Current tags, inspection and proof of ownership (title) is what's required...then getting it back in simple as you have all the documentation from the EXPORT. You are not IMPORTING A VEHICLE, you are simply returning your legal US VEHICLE.
How F"in' hard is this to understand....
It's very simple to DRIVE your truck to either Mexico or Canada... when in secondary, they run the plates to make sure it's not stolen, check your tags, your registration and insurance. while this is going they run your id, have a drug dog search your truck and then if all is well, let you go...
When SHIPPING your truck, you have to get out of the country legally first. Current tags, inspection and proof of ownership (title) is what's required...then getting it back in simple as you have all the documentation from the EXPORT. You are not IMPORTING A VEHICLE, you are simply returning your legal US VEHICLE.
How F"in' hard is this to understand....
David Harris
Expedition Leader
I have no problem with what you're saying, but it all really hinges on these words at the end of your post.
Viggen
Just here...
From CBP.org
"U.S. Residents Importing and Exporting Vehicles
A vehicle transported/driven from the United States for non-commercial or private use outside the country may return duty free to the United States, if U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is provided specific proof of U.S. origination. This proof may be a State issued vehicle registration card or a CBP certificate of registration (CBP 4455) completed and verified by a CBP officer before departure from the United States.
Know that any repairs or accessories acquired abroad for your vehicle must be declared on your return and may be subject to duty.
Warning: Catalytic-equipped vehicles (1976 or later model years) driven outside the United States, Canada, or Mexico will not, in many cases, meet EPA standards when brought back to the United States. As unleaded fuel generally is not available in other countries, the catalytic converter will become inoperative and must be replaced. Contact the Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C. 20460, for details and exceptions.
When planning to purchase a vehicle outside the United States and then import the vehicle into the United States, it would be advisable to review our publication "Importing or Exporting a Car" on the related links section of this site for general guidance. If planning to permanently export a vehicle be aware that there are several regulations that must be met prior to lawful exportation.
For additional questions, contact your local CBP Port office."
"U.S. Residents Importing and Exporting Vehicles
A vehicle transported/driven from the United States for non-commercial or private use outside the country may return duty free to the United States, if U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is provided specific proof of U.S. origination. This proof may be a State issued vehicle registration card or a CBP certificate of registration (CBP 4455) completed and verified by a CBP officer before departure from the United States.
Know that any repairs or accessories acquired abroad for your vehicle must be declared on your return and may be subject to duty.
Warning: Catalytic-equipped vehicles (1976 or later model years) driven outside the United States, Canada, or Mexico will not, in many cases, meet EPA standards when brought back to the United States. As unleaded fuel generally is not available in other countries, the catalytic converter will become inoperative and must be replaced. Contact the Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C. 20460, for details and exceptions.
When planning to purchase a vehicle outside the United States and then import the vehicle into the United States, it would be advisable to review our publication "Importing or Exporting a Car" on the related links section of this site for general guidance. If planning to permanently export a vehicle be aware that there are several regulations that must be met prior to lawful exportation.
For additional questions, contact your local CBP Port office."
David Harris
Expedition Leader
This is only to prove U.S. origin, which is no problem. What I am talking about is this part:
1.1.3.1 U.S. Version Vehicles -- Modified or Altered
A vehicle originally manufactured as a U.S. version vehicle that has since been modif ied or altered, will not meet U.S. emission requirements. For example, if the e ngine has been altered
or replaced with another type of engine, the vehicle is no longer considered a U.S. version.
A modified or altered vehicle may be conditionally imported as a U.S. version pending repair and restoration. Upon entry, the importer must file an EPA Form 3520-1 with Custom s, declare code "F" on the form, and post a bond with Customs. The importer has 120 days to demonstrate to EPA that the vehicle has been repaired or restored to its original configura tion.
Alternatively, the vehicle owner may contract with an Independent Commercial Importer (ICI) that has a valid EPA certificate of conformity to import the vehicle as a non-U.S. version vehicle and to convert it to meet the EPA requirements. More information on importing no n-
U.S. version vehicles with the help of an ICI is included in Section 1.3.2.3.
Your not getting it, this is very, very ,very simple:
When you export the truck, for whatever reason, you have to get it inspected, prove ownership (it cannot have a lien on it, bank loan or whatever), and have current tags. Once you receive the EXPORT papers, these will also serve as the paperwork used to BRING THE VEHICLE BACK INTO THE US. You don't have to proof anything other than it's the same US TRUCK, via VIN number and EXPORT PAPERWORK.
To get these papers, you have to have it inspected BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY! More than likely, it won't be a problem, your current title should say it's a diesle engine, with that said, if the title say's gas...then you may have an issue. But highly doubtful
When you export the truck, for whatever reason, you have to get it inspected, prove ownership (it cannot have a lien on it, bank loan or whatever), and have current tags. Once you receive the EXPORT papers, these will also serve as the paperwork used to BRING THE VEHICLE BACK INTO THE US. You don't have to proof anything other than it's the same US TRUCK, via VIN number and EXPORT PAPERWORK.
To get these papers, you have to have it inspected BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY! More than likely, it won't be a problem, your current title should say it's a diesle engine, with that said, if the title say's gas...then you may have an issue. But highly doubtful
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David Harris
Expedition Leader
So what your saying is to just disregard the above reg and not worry about it? They are never going to enforce this?
If you live in a BLACK AND WHITE world, you are breaking the law with any 200tdi, 300tdi or td5 as none of these engines can be imported with the 3520-1 form.
Are the engines here...yep,
Are the engines installed in LR's...yep
Are they still coming in...yep
Am I telling you to break the law...nope
you may not even get to export it if it's determined at the pre-exportation inspection that the engine installed is illegal...What's funny is I can see you being "the guy" that does get caught
it's Grey...very grey
Are the engines here...yep,
Are the engines installed in LR's...yep
Are they still coming in...yep
Am I telling you to break the law...nope
you may not even get to export it if it's determined at the pre-exportation inspection that the engine installed is illegal...What's funny is I can see you being "the guy" that does get caught
it's Grey...very grey
David Harris
Expedition Leader
I know. But why would they have this in the import/export reg if it wasn't an issue with U.S. version vehicles being brought back into the country? That's my question . . . Besides, it's not exactly a legal diesel vehicle according to the federal gov, is it? It wasn't when it went out and it's not when it comes back. If it were so easy, then LR would have brought diesel Rovers into the U.S. from the get go.
brillant, i"d say brillant
So to answer your question, you'd get caught before it leaves if they really care...