TD5 or 300TDI into a NAS D2?

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, I think that's sold. Or something. I know he doesn't have it. He finished the project, and flipped it at a loss. I never understand that.

 

[Root Moose]

I call it "standing money".

Put a bunch of time and effort into a vehicle that you never drive... then it just stands around.

After a while you start to rationalise that it makes sense to sell it at a loss just to get what money you can out it. It is especially common when you are younger and really can't afford the luxury of a "toy" vehicle that doesn't get used much. Bt/dt.

 

[Oilburner]

I dunno either. I suspect it was due to emissions testing worries. Due to it being OBD2 it could never pass most states tests (as they just scan for codes, but actually require the scan to complete). Nice rig though.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I call it "standing money".

Put a bunch of time and effort into a vehicle that you never drive... then it just stands around.

After a while you start to rationalise that it makes sense to sell it at a loss just to get what money you can out it. It is especially common when you are younger and really can't afford the luxury of a "toy" vehicle that doesn't get used much. Bt/dt.

I get what you're saying. I'm about to sell a Seadoo that doesn't get used enough to fund this. But I think he sold it shortly after it was finished. And not saying that this has anything to do with the guy who built that, but I've seen many cases where they do it with project after project...

It's one thing if you're writing for a magazine or whatever, and you HAVE to build something, and get stuff for free. But paying customers... I dunno.

 

[Root Moose]

Yeah, a lot of guys just enjoy the building part. That is what drives them. A lot of times you see situations where the guy has over built the vehicle beyond his driving skill and/or has made the vehicle useless beyond a trailered rock buggy or race car. Then some kind of life altering event occurs (marriage, kids, career ramp up, whatever) and they never use the vehicle.

Whatever. It lets us guys out there poach good parts at cut-rate prices most of the time so I'm not complaining.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I get it if they just enjoy building. Not sure how they afford it, but, whatever. I am also keenly aware of how "Projects" can end up not exactly how you intended, resulting in them not getting sold. I used to watch guys spend $20k+ putting a 4.6L DOHC engine and Cobra IRS into a Focus (yes!). I don't know what the appeal was, other than "Because it's AWESOME!" The resultant car was not very fast down the 1/4 because it couldn't drive straight. Never saw one go faster than 14's, despite all the power. It was amusing when at a national Focus meeting, the Ford Racing engineers showed up with their Cobra conversion demo car, and ran the autocross. But, they did not allow timing of the runs. Of course, anybody with a wrist watch could do it, which is exactly what I did. It was slower than a stock car, but none of the RWD fanboys will believe it.

 

[Yorker]

I dunno either. I suspect it was due to emissions testing worries. Due to it being OBD2 it could never pass most states tests (as they just scan for codes, but actually require the scan to complete). Nice rig though.

I would have loved that DII, the Isuzu is a great engine, with a a b10 of something like 310,000!?! Very cool. I don't think there is any way I could get that to be road legal in NY though. Pre OBDII no problem.

 

[Root Moose]

NY doesn't have special emissions provisions for one-offs or diesel swaps? That's annoying.

 

[Yorker]

NY doesn't have special emissions provisions for one-offs or diesel swaps? That's annoying.

Well since it was converted to diesel it MIGHT:

These vehicles are exempt from the NYVIP emissions inspection.

vehicles that are less than two model years old, or more than 25 model years old (for example, a 1975 model in 2001), and
diesel-powered vehicles, and
electric-powered vehicles, and
motorcycles, and
vehicles that are registered as farm equipment or that have historical plates, and
homemade vehicles or custom vehicles that are registered in the Upstate Area.

However the having started out as OBDII they would probably still want to do the manditory ecu scans -must be scanned, logged, sent to Albany, approved, and then they will give you a sticker. If you dont pass you can't register your car when it comes due.

Depending who you talk to you can or can't do it. With '95 and earlier there aren't any issues.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

That's a good point. IF I were to do a diesel swap, the TD5 would probably better, because you can get all the computers happy, no codes. With a 300, they can't check the codes, because there are none.

It's not an issue yet, but I have heard that in Ontario, we will be doing away with the phyical emissions testing in the future, and just go to a simple OBDII check like some of the states.

 

[rovertech]

Having done several 300 tdi swaps I have the following advice. Be PATIENT. If you go with a used engine you will be sorting out bugs and fixing annoying stuff for at least a year following the conversion. It is just the way of life when doing a major swap using used components. Don't do a diesel swap to save money, extend your cruising range or for any other reason than "It's just what I want". It isn't economical period. That doesn't mean don't do it, just don't kid yourself before you get into this. Be wary of anyone in the UK selling "low mileage" engines. It is a wonderful way for wreckers to unload junk at a premium by sending it across the pond. Once it gets on a boat you are stuck with whatever they send you. Use a reputable and knowledgeable source for diesel engines and parts like Mike at britrest.com.. Lastly if you don't have another source for transportation while this project is underway, get one now.

 

[junkyddog11]

It's not an issue yet, but I have heard that in Ontario, we will be doing away with the phyical emissions testing in the future, and just go to a simple OBDII check like some of the states.

It will be that way in all of North America at some point. On a federal level it is a crime to tamper with OBDII. Many States ignore this now but will have to come into compliance at some point.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/engswitch.pdf

 

[Root Moose]

That's a good point. IF I were to do a diesel swap, the TD5 would probably better, because you can get all the computers happy, no codes. With a 300, they can't check the codes, because there are none.

FWIW, if you swapped in any modern OBD-II engine (e.g. SBC ) you'd get all your codes too.

But in Ontario it doesn't matter. If the engine was never sold in the vehicle in our market then it gets classed as a "hot rod" and the rules are pared back to something very simplistic. No codes required.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Right, but by the same letter of the law, the engine has to be designed with the same emissions controls. But what does that mean for a Diesel swap? It's all different. For a gas engine, I would think that it would mean you'd have to at least have a cat in this case, O2's, modern fuel injection with an OBDII computer. You couldn't swap a carbed SBC in for sure.

A hot rod that receives a motor replacement on or after January 1, 1999, shall receive a motor designed to meet emission standards at least as stringent as those achieved by the original motor with all its original emission control equipment attached and functioning, and the replacement motor shall have the original catalytic converter and all the original emission control equipment, or equivalent replacements, included or usually included with the replacement motor by the manufacturer of the motor.

I can't even figure out how to GET a "HotRod" designation. Now, what I did do yesterday, is went to the MTO and asked them again about the diesel swap. They still had no idea, but called their help line. Whoever they talked to there had no idea either. But, they talked about it for a while, and the concensus was basically... I pay $10 for a new registration, they type a D instead of G, and it's done. Simple as that. If I were to go ahead with this, I'd go and do this BEFORE I spent the money. Just to be sure.

At this point, I think we're "in the wild" a little bit on this in Ontario. There is no law. That does not mean they won't change the law in the future. And there's no guarantee of grandfathering, especially if you didn't obey the "spirit of the law" in force now.

 

[Root Moose]

I'm not certain about the being "designed with the same emissions controls" thing. That is new to me. While it makes sense at a practical level it is the first time I've heard that. It may be just the circles I run in though - people are so glad to get EFI in place of their POS carb that it never comes up in that context. That said, I'm certain there are a few guys in the club that have pulled 4.0s for carbed 318s. I won't comment on how backwards that is - oh look, a blue jay.

The fact that you are having difficulties getting an answer from MTO implies to me that it is very simple like they suggested. Otherwise there would be policy in place. Of course that is just speculation on my part.