Tell me about the "dark side"...

[Martinjmpr]

Sounds like a 3rd gen would be a good choice. FWIW I sold my 3rd gen in June for $5k. This was a 99 "tall coil" SR5, 3.4, auto with the rear E-locker and 150k on the clock. Had a lot of lookers but only one serious offer and I was in a but of a hurry (I had a trip coming up and needed my new vehicle to pull our trailer.)

One of the nice things about a later (99+) SR5 is that they have a lot of little "perks" that are not really neccessary, but nice to have. Things like 3 power outlets in the dashboard and one in the rear, better cup holders, auto up/down on both front windows, nice alloy wheels, a separate heater for the back seat (with the fan under the front passenger seat), an automatic headlight shutoff that keeps you from accidentally killing your battery, and probably a few other things I've forgotten. Of course, they almost always have the power antenna, too, which is almost always broken (mine sure was - I just pulled the wire to the motor and left it up all the time.)

Couple of things to note, however: Noise-wise, I don't know what your Cherokee is like but I found the 1st gen Taco/3rd gen 4runner (same basic platform) to be rather noisy at highway speeds. It's probably a relative thing, though. Given both the boxy, wind-assaulting shape of the Cherokee I'll bet the 3rd gen is quieter but maybe not by much. My 4th gen 4runner is noticeably quieter than the 3rd gen, which is nice.

Another thing (and I harp on this a lot because it was a big deal to me) the gas tank is a tad small IMO. 18.5 gallons which at normal MPG of 16-18 will give you, at best, 300 miles of range before you need to fill up (and that's being optimistic - around town expect your low fuel light to come on between 215 - 240 miles.) The fuel gauge is also notoriously inaccurate, so you'll want to run a few tanks to make sure you know what your range is (we actually ran out of gas in my 3rd gen in Oregon back in June, but that was due to a combination of pulling a heavy trailer through the mountains and not filling up when I should have, so I can't blame the truck for that one.)

Off road you will find the 99+ 3rd gen superb, even with the factory suspension. The J-shift T-case is pretty much bulletproof and the 4runner can probably handle just about any trail you're brave enough to point it down.

 

[MCObray]

I had a 96 ZJ for about 6 years before my 4Runner. The ZJ was running 33" tires and with some trimming, a small lift, and the V8 it was great on the trail. Otherwise the truck had a lot of negatives, bad gas mileage, spare tire located in the trunk, vague steering, unibody, etc. The biggest issue was the reliability. To be fair the truck had somewhere around 160k on it, but it seemed like something was breaking pretty much monthly by the end. I replaced the engine mounts, control arms, 3 power steering pumps, steering box, and a ton of other small parts. Something was always leaking or failing, and for the most part not because of offroad use. When the A/C pump seized ($1000 to replace) and then the transmission sender split and I woke up and found the ZJ sitting in a pool of "blood" (trans fluid) in the garage it was time for it to move on.

I was hesitant to buy an IFS truck, but my goal was to buy a reliable rig that could get close to 20mpg on the highway and nothing with a solid front axle in the US market fit. And realistically there's nothing "wrong" with IFS, I've driven an XTerra all over Moab and through the Rubicon and had no problems.

After doing some research I decided to buy a 99-00 4x4 4runner with the 3.4l motor. The 99-00 models have the newer interior, and I wanted the V6 because it gets almost the same mileage as the I4 but has much more torque, and it's not like the 4runner is a speed demon to start with. That said, the I4 has a timing chain so if you want a bulletproof engine I would strongly consider it. I also really wanted a 5 speed, and the moon roof, and the e-locker, and a grey interior because I hate tan. Oh, and the sport model would be nice since it comes with large brakes. So basically I was looking for one of the most rare combinations possible, and after two years I found one, though it did not have the elocker.

After owning the 4Runner for 3 years and wheeling it regularly there is no way I would go back to the ZJ. I miss the Jeep sometimes, and it was more exciting to drive on the trail, but the 4Runner is vastly better in every other aspect, reliability, comfort, interior space, drivability, etc. It has met or exceeded all of my expectations. Reliability has been great, the only problem I've had is that the bushing on the clutch spring wore out which is very common. There are a few other common problems that have been listed above, but for the most part as long as you deal with those these trucks are very reliable. Oh, and I should mention that the gas gauges are notoriously inaccurate. Front headroom is not great if you are more than 6' tall, especially with the sun roof. With a lift, rock protection, and 32" mud tires I still can get 19-20mpg on the freeway if I'm careful. Friends who have the stock front bumper, a lift, and 32" ATs are able to get 21-22 mpg.

I found my truck with 84k miles in 2009 for $8300, so deals are out there, it may just take some time to find them. Good luck!

Good resources:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/
http://www.t4r.org/
http://www.yotatech.com/

Possibilities if you are willing to travel:
1999 w/ 93k for $8500
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3467079203.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/3455330873.html

2000 w/ 126k for $8900
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/3438406216.html

As you can tell 4Runners retain their value well.

- Matt

Thank you!

Again, another good informative piece of writing you have provided, especially coming from a Jeep. I am definitely going to be referring back to this thread when it comes to purchase time. Right now, I am going to focus on the immediate area of availability for the T4R, but as times grow, I might just have to expand where to look at.

I saw the first ad you posted and thought that one was clean, and appears to be well-maintained. That's a great price and maybe if it's around in a few weeks, which I doubt, I might express some more interest. For now though, i'll keep scanning CL and various other forum classified. Again, thanks for your time and experiences, it is very much valued!

Sounds like a 3rd gen would be a good choice. FWIW I sold my 3rd gen in June for $5k. This was a 99 "tall coil" SR5, 3.4, auto with the rear E-locker and 150k on the clock. Had a lot of lookers but only one serious offer and I was in a but of a hurry (I had a trip coming up and needed my new vehicle to pull our trailer.)

One of the nice things about a later (99+) SR5 is that they have a lot of little "perks" that are not really neccessary, but nice to have. Things like 3 power outlets in the dashboard and one in the rear, better cup holders, auto up/down on both front windows, nice alloy wheels, a separate heater for the back seat (with the fan under the front passenger seat), an automatic headlight shutoff that keeps you from accidentally killing your battery, and probably a few other things I've forgotten. Of course, they almost always have the power antenna, too, which is almost always broken (mine sure was - I just pulled the wire to the motor and left it up all the time.)

Couple of things to note, however: Noise-wise, I don't know what your Cherokee is like but I found the 1st gen Taco/3rd gen 4runner (same basic platform) to be rather noisy at highway speeds. It's probably a relative thing, though. Given both the boxy, wind-assaulting shape of the Cherokee I'll bet the 3rd gen is quieter but maybe not by much. My 4th gen 4runner is noticeably quieter than the 3rd gen, which is nice.

Another thing (and I harp on this a lot because it was a big deal to me) the gas tank is a tad small IMO. 18.5 gallons which at normal MPG of 16-18 will give you, at best, 300 miles of range before you need to fill up (and that's being optimistic - around town expect your low fuel light to come on between 215 - 240 miles.) The fuel gauge is also notoriously inaccurate, so you'll want to run a few tanks to make sure you know what your range is (we actually ran out of gas in my 3rd gen in Oregon back in June, but that was due to a combination of pulling a heavy trailer through the mountains and not filling up when I should have, so I can't blame the truck for that one.)

Off road you will find the 99+ 3rd gen superb, even with the factory suspension. The J-shift T-case is pretty much bulletproof and the 4runner can probably handle just about any trail you're brave enough to point it down.

I am definitely going to be picky, and looking for a 99-01. From what I have read, and also from others have responded in various threads, it appears as if these are the best two years that the 3rd Gen T4R was produced. Eh, any improvement, which i'm sure the T4R will produce on the highway will be much more appreciated. Thanks for pointing out a flow, when it comes to the gas tank. Luckily, I am pulling out 220-260 on average out of a tank, so that'll be an improvement as most of my driving in down on the HWY right now. Thank you for chiming in!

All you guys, thank you! All your responses have been just what I am looking for, as well as being very informative. I want to educate myself and know what to look for when the time comes to purchase a T4R. Needless to say, I am really looking forward to the ownership of a Toyota vehicle. Y'all can keep the responses coming. Thanks!

 

[tanglefoot]

Thanks for the correction, I just figured if a part were needing to be replaced, it's going to be more expensive due to having to come from the dealer. OEM quality though, can't beat that!

BTW, does anybody know the battery size for the 3rd Gen 4Runner? I have a D34/78 DieHard Platinum in my Jeep, and if I can keep it, that would be great!

According to the Optima application finder, the D34/78 is only a match for the 2nd gen 4runner and the 1st gen with the 3.0.

The 3rd gen appears to take the 34R, 35 or D35

As for parts, I've found that the parts houses are well-stocked for imports as well. I've never had trouble finding parts for our Hondas and Toyotas at the auto parts stores or online. Aftermarket brands like Federal-Mogul have the imports well supported.

I've always loved manual transmissions. Once you're comfortable with them, they can be driven very smoothly and I appreciate the extra hold-back power that the low gears offer when going down steep trails. In the '98, I find the low-range ratio to be sufficient to very rarely drag the clutch. I use 2nd gear-low range most of the time on the trail. The manual transmission Toyotas also have the clutch-start-cancel button that lets you keep the drive train engaged in the event of an engine stall. Just press the button and crank the starter to get going again without any roll-back. I also like the ability to roll-start the engine if the battery or starter decide to give out in the woods. The 3rd gen rear coil suspension has quite a bit of articulation--it keeps the tires on the ground pretty well. I find the traction to be sufficient in most situations (it doesn't have the e-locker).

The 3.4 really does have nice low-end torque. On the flats, I usually shift at about 1500 rpm and get it right up to 5th gear at 40-45 mph. The 2.7 would still be my pick though for the very low maintenance needs, easy access to components and a little extra fuel economy. The power thing is completely relative. I used to 4wheel with some Toyota guys and we all had the 8-valve 2.4 22Rs and 22R-E's. When one guy showed up with a 16v 2.7 Tacoma, we were slack-jawed with the power that thing had. So by my standards, the 3.4 is over-powered. When it came out in the Tacoma in late '94, it pretty well turned the compact truck world upside down. Four Wheeler magazine wrote that the 3.4 Tacoma felt more powerful than the 5.2 Dodge Dakota in their 1998 4x4 of the year test (the Tacoma won).

 

[p nut]

To add to the 3.4 vs 2.7 - I really see no big benefits either way. There are pros and cons. The 2.7L gets slightly better MPG (stock 24MPG vs 20MPG with 3.4L), but with lift/tire/armor, that gap is gone. Timing chain is great, but the 3.4L's belt is not really an issue, as the engine is non-interference. You do need to fork out $500 every 100k or so for replacement. Uber high mileage has been achieved with both engines, so reliability is about the same. Power wise, there is no comparison. I live in the mountains and drive up canyons at a high elevation. This makes even the 3.4L pretty anemic. Driving my friend's 2.7L Tacoma, I had to have the RPM's way up there to maintain speed. So my vote would go to the 3.4L.

If you do go with the 2.7L, a common failure is the exhaust manifold. It sometimes develops a crack right in the middle, so watch for that.

 

[MCObray]

tanglefoot and p nut, thank you! All the information, at times is overwhelming, but as I sift through and re-read the information again, it all is starting to stick. Again, I can't emphasize it enough, but all this information, as well as personal accounts with a 4Runner have really helped me put into perspective what to vehicle to expect if/when I purchase a 4Runner. Thank you guys again!

 

[wingysataday]

Toyotas just work.

 

[rickashay]

This may not be relative to the vehicle you intend to purchase but I thought I'd share:

IMO the factory brakes are rather weak and beware of warped rotors etc. when you are looking to purchase. As said above, the "Sport Editions" do come with bigger brakes but I can't comment on how they perform, as I've never driven a Sport. Something to note though, is that you can upgrade the front calipers/disks to 1st Generation Tundra brakes with ease. They are a bolt-on affair and a dramatic increase in braking characteristic due to their larger size (both caliper and disk). Just something to think about if the truck your eyeing needs a brake job or you may need it done down the road.

 

[MCObray]

Toyotas just work.

So i've heard...

This may not be relative to the vehicle you intend to purchase but I thought I'd share:

IMO the factory brakes are rather weak and beware of warped rotors etc. when you are looking to purchase. As said above, the "Sport Editions" do come with bigger brakes but I can't comment on how they perform, as I've never driven a Sport. Something to note though, is that you can upgrade the front calipers/disks to 1st Generation Tundra brakes with ease. They are a bolt-on affair and a dramatic increase in braking characteristic due to their larger size (both caliper and disk). Just something to think about if the truck your eyeing needs a brake job or you may need it done down the road.

Yes, I read in the T4R buyers guide that it is indeed a common problem. Where can the 1st Gen Tundra brakes be found? Dealership? Napa? Junkyard?

Thanks for pointing it out and re-ittirating the information!

 

[p nut]

This may not be relative to the vehicle you intend to purchase but I thought I'd share:

IMO the factory brakes are rather weak and beware of warped rotors etc. when you are looking to purchase. As said above, the "Sport Editions" do come with bigger brakes but I can't comment on how they perform, as I've never driven a Sport. Something to note though, is that you can upgrade the front calipers/disks to 1st Generation Tundra brakes with ease. They are a bolt-on affair and a dramatic increase in braking characteristic due to their larger size (both caliper and disk). Just something to think about if the truck your eyeing needs a brake job or you may need it done down the road.

In my opinion, unless your rig is heavily loaded with modifications and you're on 33+" tires, or tow a lot, the Tundra brake is not really necessary. What you do need are good blank (not slotted or drilled) rotors (OEM, Brembo or Autozone Duralast) and good set of pads (Hawk, Axxis Ultimates). I've NEVER warped a set of rotors with a good brake job. Again, I run up and down canyons, which means lots of riding the brakes. Quality parts, proper bed in = no issues. Just my personal experience.

 

[MCObray]

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/3441921905.html

I chatted with this guy a bit, and he said he would let it go for $7,500 (175K miles, mechanically sound). I still think the price is a little bit high, but it appears to very, very taken care of with records and receipts. I'm stuck on it, because it appears to be very cared-for, but then again I think I could find another T4R with less miles and about the same price. I just don't know if it would be as clean as this one. What do you guys think?

 

[Martinjmpr]

IMO that's several thousand $$ too high. As I said, I sold my 99 for $5k with 25,000 fewer miles and mine had the E-locker.

 

[wonderfulremark]

I wouldn't pay a time more than $5,000-$5,500

 

[MCObray]

IMO that's several thousand $$ too high. As I said, I sold my 99 for $5k with 25,000 fewer miles and mine had the E-locker.

I wouldn't pay a time more than $5,000-$5,500

That's what I was thinking. I just out to sit back and wait for the right one to come along for the right price and mileage... I got T4R happy all of a sudden.

 

[joshjan]

I made the leap from Jeep to a 3rd gen 4runner about a year ago. I had a 1999 Cherokee with lots of goodies, very similar to yours in fact, and loved to take it to Rausch Creek here in PA. It did fantastic on the rocks and carrying me and the dog around, but when we put the rest of the family in there it was bare bones to say the least. It was just a tad too small and some of my "mods" (removing carpet) weren't really family friendly. I couldn't complain about the reliability as I was really familar with the platform and did most of the work myself. I guess I was blessed to have a trustworthy Jeep.

Next up was my wifes Liberty. I never really liked it and sold it for $ to search for a 4Runner.

I have a 1999 4Runner Highlander with a supercharged 3.4, leather, manual, and the e-locker. I wanted something that I could basically get in and drive it where I wanted to, as modifications are on the backburner for a bit. It is a rare beast but it's been a ton of work so far. I can't stress finding out the trucks maintenance history enough! So far I've done a head gasket, timing belt, water pump, a bunch of sensors, and repaired a vacuum leak on the supercharger. Now it's humming and I see that I have a good rig but it didn't start out that way! I paid $6k for it with 155k miles on it but I've sunk close to $3k in it to get it going right.

I like the size, it seems just a little bigger in the cargo area and maybe a little wider than the Cherokee. Be very patient and get out there and drive a few just to see what you think.

 

[t4rman]

3rd gens are great. Have a buddy with a trouble free 300,000mi 3rd gen. Watch the lower ball joints. I have seen 2 fail (spindle disconnects in motion).

I have a 10 year old 4th gen with 105,000. It has been great. Everything is holding up surprisingly well.