TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

[Silverado08]

Hi Silverado,

I guess I need to ask you: do you think that the thousands of retired Americans who are driving around in 45-foot Class A motorhomes, and towing TOADs, are foolishly impractical? Did they waste their money on a Class A? Are the companies that build these large motorhomes in the United States, "impractical"? Are these companies that should now be bankrupt? And if they are not now bankrupt, and if they are still selling large Class A motorhomes that are 45 feet long, then what does this say? Have you ever wondered about who buys such large motorhomes, and why?

Yes, the TerraLiner is intended to be driven on roads that are also driven by trucks and buses. It is not intended to be driven on small dirt tracks that can only be driven otherwise by Jeeps that have 4-wheel drive. The TerraLiner is not intended for rock-crawling. But saying that the TerraLiner will only be able to drive super-highways is a gross exaggeration. It's a "hyperbolic" statement. Big buses and trucks will drive smaller two-lane streets and highways all the time, as do American Class A motorhomes that are towing TOADs.

The TerraLiner has big tires mainly so that it can enter a farmer's field without a problem, and then leave again. As someone remarked earlier in the thread, big tires and all-wheel drive on expedition motorhomes are there largely so that the vehicle can drive the last 200 feet to its campsite. Otherwise, like all other vehicles, for 95 % of the time even expedition motorhomes will use regular roads.

However, the big tires and very robust chassis frame are also there so that the TerrraLiner can drive large gravel highways like the Tanami Road in Australia, or similar highways in Asia and Latin America. Not all roads intended to be used by large trucks and buses are paved. In lots of countries they will put in a road that's big enough and wide enough to be used by trucks and buses, but it will be gravel, and not that well maintained. So it will be very corrugated, and any kind of ordinary motorhome with small tires and a weak chassis frame will not be able to handle it. Have you seen videos posted earlier in the thread of the Tanami Road? It has the width of superhighway, and yet it is gravel and heavily corrugated:






Notice the size of the tires used by the vehicles that travel the Tanami: they are not small. However, as I made clear, the tires in the schematic of the Panther are actually over-sized; they are a particular type of Fire-and-Rescue tire that is 1.38 m in diameter. The TerraLiner will not carry such large tires. Rather, like egn's Blue Thunder and similar-sized expedition motorhomes, the TerraLiner will carry Michelin XZL 14.00R20 or 16.00R20 tires, tires that are 1.258 m and 1.342 m in diameter, respectively; or the equivalent, for instance a specialized sand-tire of the same size. To maximize the amount of volume and height available for the camper box, as recommended by egn very early on in the thread, the TerraLiner will probably carry Michelin XZL 14.00R20 tires.

Before you object further, have you ever taken a look at the Unicat or Actionmobil websites? Have you actually checked to see the size of the tires that their 6x6 motorhomes carry? Michelin XZL 14.00R20 tires seem to be the standard, preferred size.

Also remember that a large tire-radius provides good under-axle clearance. One of the problems that smaller vehicles with smaller tires encounter when they drive bad roads like the Tanami, is that the ruts in the road were created by large trucks with big tires. If smaller vehicles try to follow these ruts with their small tires, their center-lines will get stuck on the mounds or ridges between the ruts. This kept happening to the vehicles that participated in Stephen Stewart's 2003 motorhome expedition through China and Tibet:





See http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/china2002/ , http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/china2002/20021010.htm , and http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/china2002/20021012.htm . This is why smaller expedition motorhomes with small tires will usually need to have portal axles, so that they have sufficient center-line clearance. Whereas in a larger vehicle it makes more sense to just have large tires.

If these observations about the problem of ruts are new to you, well, they should not be. The problem of ruts has been discussed before in the thread at length, so you may simply need to re-read some of the earlier posts in the thread.... Here I am generously assuming that you have already read all of the thread!..:sombrero: ...

For instance, the TerraLiner is not intended to be a traditional kind of motorhome that uses RV parks extensively, and it is also not intended as a motorhome that stays one week here, another week there, and that travels quickly between places. Rather, the TerraLiner is intended as a motorhome/mobile house that will drive from point A to point B, and then settle in for 3 months; and then it will drive from point B to point C, and settle in for another 4 months; and then it will drive from point C to point D, and settle in for 2 months. And so on, all the time glamping primarily in farmer's fields. Think of the TerraLiner as a mobile house, and not a motorhome, and you might understand the concept better. Or remember that I have very clearly stated the the TerraLiner is intended for "slow travel", and not for "fast travel".

Again, the TerraLiner itself is for sojourning, not exploring. The TerraLiner arrives at point B, it enters a farmer's field, and then it stays put. The TOAD does the exploring, not the TerraLiner. And the TerraLiner will be able to "dry camp" in a farmer's field for 3 months, because it will be an unusually "autonomous" motorhome, in terms of power, water, and sewage. It will not need the hookups of an RV park, because it will incinerate its sewage, and it will make its own water.

This is a very simple idea. Once you imagine the TerraLiner as an unusually "autonomous" mobile house, lots of possibilities open up. You need to imagine the TerraLiner as traveling in a way that is different from the kind of traveling that you are simply assuming as given. You also need to remember the target-market: retired old people, with time on their hands. Not middle-aged people or young people who want to zip around, traveling from one country to then next every 10 days. Furthermore, the type of traveling that the TerraLiner will do is exactly the kind of traveling that retired people already do with their Class-A motorhomes in the United States. They will go from point A to point B, and then settle in for a number of months, using their TOADs to explore, not their large Class-A motorhomes. The type of traveling that I am envisioning here is not new, even if you are personally not familiar with it. The only part that's new is the idea that the TerraLiner will be able to glamp on farms instead of RV parks, because it will be unusually autonomous.

The reason why there is a market for 45-foot Class A motorhomes in the United States, is that when people start imagining living in a motorhome full-time -- for decades and not just a few months, and not just for one year -- they realize that living space will be important to them. Please read the discussion about what it's like to live full-time in a motorhome at https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1ujkeh/people_who_have_lived_in_rvs_for_an_extended/ , and please read post #2229 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1990959#post1990959 . Have you personally lived in a motorhome for a year? Have you lived in a small motorhome for a year with a "significant other", i.e. your wife or girlfriend?

"Impractical" is a very nebulous word, a word that is not much use when discussing different sizes of motorhome. "Impractical" does not have any real content or meaning, and amounts to nothing more than an emotive statement to the effect, "I personally don't like it." What is "practical" for a middle-aged person who only wants to use a motorhome on weekends, or for three-week trips, or for one-year on a round-the-world trip, is not "practical" for a retired couple who want to live in their motorhome full-time for at least a decade. Please read the thread that I just referenced. For people who have actually tried living in motorhomes full-time, having more living spaces is very practical. The thread just referenced is also interesting in so far as a number of participants talk about being forced to live in small motorhomes teenagers, because their parents split up, or because their parents were poor. They absolutely hated living full-time in a small motorhome, and they write that they never, ever want to live in a small, cramped motorhome ever again. The heartfelt hatred they express towards living full-time in a small motorhome is vivid, very real, and makes for sobering reading. Anyone who wants to comment on the proposed size of the TerraLiner should first read that thread. Again, see https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1ujkeh/people_who_have_lived_in_rvs_for_an_extended/ .

As for the other issues you brought up, yes, of course I have been thinking about spare tires (they go in -- or on -- the TOAD garage, where there will be ample room), and of course I have been thinking about breakdowns and servicing. Which is precisely why I have been specifying a serial hybrid drivetrain and two generators for redundancy. Have you read all the posts in which this has been discussed?

Most recently I posted about the basic problem that there are no truly "global" vehicles. Finding parts and service even for a truck manufactured by a company with significant global presence like Mercedes, Volvo, or MAN may prove difficult in many places. MAN does not seem to have any presence in North America, for instance, and no major European truck manufacturers have much presence in China or India. Presumably they won't have much presence in Indochina either, where I would guess that the preference might be for much cheaper, Chinese-made trucks. So the idea that a more conventional drive-train will magically solve the problem of parts and service worldwide, is I think a bit naive and optimistic. Especially in this day and age when all new engines are loaded with complex electronics. I could be wrong about this, but I would need to hear convincing arguments to the contrary. For instance, someone would have to show me a service map for Volvo, MAN, or Mercedes trucks that truly covers the entire globe, and especially Asia. See posts #2221 to #2224, beginning at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1990846#post1990846 . ...

Here are pages from a recent Mercedes PDF, which sum up Mercedes' truck markets worldwide -- see https://www.daimler.com/documents/i...r/daimler-ir-brochurefactsandfigures-2014.pdf :



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Unlike MAN, Mercedes does have a significant presence in North America, because it owns FreightLiner. But it would be interesting to find out whether this will help one much if one has an expedition motorhome built on top of a European COE Actros truck, and one's Actros truck needs servicing in the United States. FreightLiner trucks are very different from the kinds of trucks Mercedes sells in Europe, if only because at a bare minimum FreightLiner trucks are CBE, cab-behind-engine.

Mercedes also seems to have a presence in Indonesia, which is interesting (and a bit surprising), and it has a new venture called "BharatBenz" in India -- see https://www.daimler.com/products/trucks/bharatbenz/ . But the number of trucks sold by BharatBenz in India is still minuscule in comparison to the number of trucks sold in India by Tata Motors (59.3 % of Indian market share), or Ashok Leyland (25 % of Indian market share):




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Furthermore, aside from two joint-ventures, Mercedes trucks does not seem to have any significant presence at all in Russia or China. And if a Mercedes truck is not a truly "global" vehicle from the point of servicing, then no conventional ICE truck is.

Also, please remember the TerraLiner's target demographic, and please realize that if you are middle-aged, and if you are not yet retired, then I am not designing the TerraLiner for you. So in that sense, it's kinda irrelevant what your own, personal preference regarding motorhome size might be....:costumed-smiley-007... I am designing the TerraLiner with a very specific demographic in mind. Remember that when designers create something, they always have a very specific target-market in mind. We don't design for everyone. Rather, we design with a specific group of people in mind. The mere fact that different sizes of motorhome exist, should make this self-evident. If there were just one "ideal motorhome" size for everyone, then motorhome manufacturers would create and sell just one size of motorhome. That they do not, should tell you something.

I don't really understand why such an obvious point is not clear to some thread participants, and having to repeat it is a bit tedious, although perhaps also necessary. I hope that the above arguments have been clear enough. But also please note that I have made all of these arguments before, earlier in the thread. None of these arguments should sound new to you, if you have actually read the thread.....

All best wishes,



Biotect

Have you ever met or know anyone who would be interested in driving this type of vehicle the way you envision?

Those big American buses are still limited to good highways so yes they would be very impractical nay impossible to drive anywhere else..especially around the world thru some dirt roads..
Like I said the 6x6 itself is nice but draging another 6 axle heavy trailer is way impractical in bad terrain..can you imagine trying to back this up if needed?

Building your imaginary terra mobile is very easy imo,,with enough money,,the question is will anyone want it?

Wouldn't someone already build this if there was demand?
Those few custom built are very few and far between. .but hey its your dream so don't mind me criticizing lol..
We are just sharing ideas yes

I'm retired and like to travel at least once a year,unfortunately ,I'm too busy with my automotive project presently..plus I plan to build another RV my way too..and it doesn't have to be huge to be comfortable..

 

[Libransser]

Have you ever met or know anyone who would be interested in driving this type of vehicle the way you envision?

Those big American buses are still limited to good highways so yes they would be very impractical nay impossible to drive anywhere else..especially around the world thru some dirt roads..
Like I said the 6x6 itself is nice but draging another 6 axle heavy trailer is way impractical in bad terrain..can you imagine trying to back this up if needed?

Building your imaginary terra mobile is very easy imo,,with enough money,,the question is will anyone want it?

Wouldn't someone already build this if there was demand?
Those few custom built are very few and far between. .but hey its your dream so don't mind me criticizing lol..
We are just sharing ideas yes

I'm retired and like to travel at least once a year,unfortunately ,I'm too busy with my automotive project presently..plus I plan to build another RV my way too..and it doesn't have to be huge to be comfortable..

Hi Silverado08,

Well, for starters, even if I'm not in the intended target market demographic, I'm very much interested in a TerraLiner-like vehicle. And I'm here because many of the TerraLiner's goals align with my own goals for the ultimate motorhome for me and my intended purpose.

Your description of yourself makes it clear that the TerraLiner won't fulfil your needs, and likewise, that you don't belong to the intended market the TerraLiner is intended for, but that's okay because there's no one-size-can-fit-all.

But I'm sure you are here because you are looking for ideas, solutions and inspiration as well as us. So there's no reason we can't do that.

And (constructive) criticism is good, it makes one to pay attention, to add a question mark to the things we take for granted, because things change and we can be wrong.

But seriously, every one of the points you raise has already been discussed in the previous pages, I can guarantee it to you because I have read the entire thing.

If you go back and read about the posts addressing your concerns, they will probably be quenched, and if you have further specific questions about it or have evidence you can present about something said being wrong or not quite right, I'm sure it will be welcome, but your current generalized questions had already been answered, sometimes in excess.

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Yes, a demand already exists, Biotect has presented arguments and evidence showing that there are people out there willing to pay big money for a luxury motorhome, in enough demand to support an industry of several players. The target market carries a particular lifestyle that could be enhanced beyond what every other company out there is offering.



There are products that create a new need customers didn't know they had until they saw it fulfilled.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."
~Henry Ford

Just because there's demand and there are products for it, it doesn't automatically mean the needs of the customer are met.

There are a multitude of examples: the Model T, the IBM PC, the iPhone, Amazon, etc. None of them were first to market. Before the Model T, other cars already existed; before the IBM PC, other personal computers already existed; before the iPhone, other smartphones already existed; before Amazon, other online stores selling books already existed. But each one of them created new needs inside their own product category and fulfilled them brilliantly.

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Several pages back there are videos of passenger buses similar to A-Class motorhomes going through dirt roads in South America that I wouldn't had believed that they would be able to pass, but nevertheless they did, one after another. Sure, the bus took a small hit here and there, but the driver's skill and the little ground clearance they had went a long way. There are also videos of tour buses of comparable size driving through dirt roads in Africa, and they seem to be doing peachy too. It already has been addressed that traditional A-Class motorhomes in USA have too little ground clearance. But it has also been established that the TerraLiner will have much more ground clearance that it won't have problems driving through those same roads in USA, South America and Africa.

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It has also been established that if a series of TerraLiners get produced, it won't be a series of one-offs with endless possible customizations like with other manufacturers. They will lean more towards uniformity than being custom builds.

---

About the 6x6 trailer, I think that's actually pretty new and something we could discuss further.

 

[safas]

Here we go again "go and read that 220 pages, you'll find your question answered".
The problem is that the conversation has exceeded managable size long time ago. I have read it all, yet I find it unreasonable to demand it from others. Especially if the point is getting answers to a few specific questions.
I believe something should be done make searching for information easier.
I have 2 ideas of what could be done:
1. Split the thread into 20 smaller ones, with cross-references when needed.
2. Create a wiki that acutely describes the current state of the project; with references to discussions about individual parts.
Both are big tasks. I see nothing smaller that would help. The latter at least seems possible to do both incrementally and with hands of multiple persons.
Maybe sombody sees an easier way?
Regardless, something should be done.

 

[Libransser]

I'm just trolling, but that has also been discussed before

But seriously, my first post to this thread (and ExPo) was a similar suggestion.

The easiest way would be the first option. Doesn't need external set-ups, heavy transfer of content, and the interested people are already here.

Maybe the ExPo forum admins can help and create a sub-forum focused on the TerraLiner. Biotect could be made the moderator of only that sub-forum. A master hub thread could then be set-up, and threads focusing on specific topics can be created.

 

[Silverado08]

Here we go again "go and read that 220 pages, you'll find your question answered".
The problem is that the conversation has exceeded managable size long time ago. I have read it all, yet I find it unreasonable to demand it from others. Especially if the point is getting answers to a few specific questions.
I believe something should be done make searching for information easier.
I have 2 ideas of what could be done:
1. Split the thread into 20 smaller ones, with cross-references when needed.
2. Create a wiki that acutely describes the current state of the project; with references to discussions about individual parts.
Both are big tasks. I see nothing smaller that would help. The latter at least seems possible to do both incrementally and with hands of multiple persons.
Maybe sombody sees an easier way?
Regardless, something should be done.

Believe it or not but I have read all the pages in this tread and know exactly what biotect wants,,however I wonder if he isn't bit out of touch with reality. .I've done plenty of traveling and see what people drive and live in..
I've never seen any old retired people who would like to travel around the world and camp or glamp in some farmer's field for few months
At a time as he says..
RV ers are restless bunch and don't stay in one place very long..
They like to see and do new things,explore etc..what will one explore being parked in some farmer's field?
Help with farming chores maybe?
I can't imagine old retired people driving such humongous complicated expedition vehicle thru inhospitable places that's for young and very fit ..
Who will do the maintenance when something breaks,and it will..the more stuff one hauls around more possibility for things to go wrong..
Do you realize what's involved even in simple task such as changing the wheel tire of such size for example ?
Have you done this,,has Biotect?
Every Profesional big rig trucker simply calls tire repairer and have them do it,can you do that in the middle of nowhere Tasmania or some such place?
Most old people driving expensive buses and having all the comforts want to take life easy,go to museums casinos shopping eating great food in best restaurants..not drive thru
Muddy roads in Australia.

 

[biotect]

Hi Silverado,

Again, the TerraLiner itself is only one piece of the puzzle. The other piece of the puzzle is the TOAD, a TOAD equipped with a camperette. That TOAD will be so short (less than 2.1 m high) that it will be able to securely park just about anywhere. And much better than any vehicle that's bigger, the TOAD will be able to drive into small villages and covered markets to do the shopping. Or it will be able to drive along small jungle tracks that are overgrown with low-hanging trees. It will allow the TerraLiner's owners to explore more than they would have otherwise, had they opted for a medium-sized motorhome compromise.

I guess you just don't understand how the combination will work. The TerraLiner's owners will glamp on a farmer's field, but not to mope around all day. The TerraLiner will become their "base camp", from which they will explore with the TOAD.


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1. What Glossy Advertisements Say About the Secret Fantasies, Desires, and Needs of Class-A Motorhome Owners


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Furthermore, on my own view many farms and their fields have some of the best scenery on the planet. Whereas lots of RV parks are not so scenic, precisely because they are RV parks.

Notice how motorhome advertisements almost never show Class A vehicles parked in a row right beside other Class A vehicles, in an RV park or resort. But this is, in fact, the primary scenery that most motorhomes will experience, if they only drive from one RV park to the next. Rather, advertisements always show beautiful large motorhomes parked alone, in the middle of nowhere, with spectacular natural backdrops and vistas, as if they were boondocking. Except that remote boondocking is something that an ordinary Class A vehicle with small tires simply cannot do. So these advertisements are somewhat lying:










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[biotect]

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2. What Most Motorhoming Actually Looks Like


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That's the fantasy. Now here is the reality.

A nice husband-and-wife team called David and Brenda Bott run a terrific website packed with information about Class-A motorhoming, which you might begin exploring at http://www.outsideourbubble.com , http://www.outsideourbubble.com/about-us , http://www.outsideourbubble.com/live-coach-cam , etc. If you've ever wondered what it's like to live the “RV Lifestyle” in a large Class-A coach full time, there is no better place to start. The “Class A Lifestyle” is different from the kind of lifestyle that most ExPo participants get excited about. It's a lifestyle where travel is mainly confined to the United States and Canada, where the roads are wide and good, and there is a system of RV parks with huge “pitches” that can accommodate Class-A motorhomes. When things break down, service is easy to find, because the chassis manufacturer (e.g. FreightLiner) or motorhome manufacture (eg. Tiffin) are located in the same country that one is traveling in. Everyone speaks English, except in Quebec, parts of New Brunswick, and the far western coast of Nova Scotia.

The Botts are “Quadcopter” enthusiasts (see http://www.outsideourbubble.com/category/quadcoptor-videos ), who have created countless flyover videos that you can see on their YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWCwzhIDXR0zpnhhCEiaQHg , https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rIcCkjkD_RRKAfCu8JIL , https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rIcCkjkD_RRKAfCu8JIL , and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdffGRfAxFhMoHiQcX-jn8b3bX0v-2OXl . These videos clearly show what living full-time in a big RV typically means. It means being tethered to the system of motorhome "camps" and "resorts", where often one merely looks out at a bunch of nondescript trees, or worse, one mostly sees the motorhomes of one's neighbors. Occasionally one might have a bit of a view of a lake:



[video=youtube;_oqwtQ3Z5s8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oqwtQ3Z5s8&list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rIcCkjk D_RRKAfCu8JIL&index=1[/video] [video=youtube;PurZ_gSq_zc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PurZ_gSq_zc&list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rIcCkjkD_RR KAfCu8JIL&index=11[/video] [video=youtube;PYAbKVzV8Y8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYAbKVzV8Y8&index=15&list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rI cCkjkD_RRKAfCu8JIL[/video]
[video=youtube;ibVVvf67-CE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibVVvf67-CE&index=17&list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rIcCkjkD_RRKAfCu8J I L[/video] [video=youtube;i-ND0irbjOo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ND0irbjOo&list=PLdffGRfAxFhN_rIcCkjkD_RRKAfCu8JIL& index=6[/video]



None of the motorhomes in these videos has a really good "view"; none of them look out on spectacular mountain scenery, or an ocean. They have to confine themselves to the places where someone else has already created a big paved pitch. Although the RV parks pictured above are nice enough, this is not the kind of coastal or mountain camping that I would personally want to do with the TerraLiner.



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3. The TerraLiner: Giving Retired People What they Really Want in a Motorhome


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Furthermore, it's not the kind of "camping alone in nature" depicted in the advertisements above. There is a very big gap between those images, and the reality of the RV-park lifestyle.

However, these mages should serve us well, because they tell us something very important about elderly people, and their fantasies. Such images suggest that the fantasies of many of the elderly are quite different than what you think they are, Silverado. The "ideal motorhoming experience" that all of these images convey is the same: a big comfortable Class A parked in the middle of nowhere, with a fantastic view, and no another motorhomes in sight. Some of these photographs have images of old couples with grey hair. But from your point of view, Silverado, it would seem that an old couple with grey hair + big 45 foot motorhome + no other motorhomes in sight + scenic natural backdrop, is an oxymoron. The combination is simply impossible. And agreed, it is impossible for most Class-A motorhomes, because they simply do not have the tires necessary, or strong enough chassis frames.

Now what if these images do in fact express the fantasies of many elderly, retired people? My design goal with TerraLiner design would then be to give retired couples what they want. Not merely pretend to give it them, by handing them a glossy brochure. The TerraLiner will be built exactly so that it's the kind of vehicle that could boondock in the ways suggested by the images above. Think of the TerraLiner as the "ultimate large boondocking vehicle", and imagine it able to camp in scenic locations on coastal farmland, riverine farmland, or mountain farmland that look just as good as these glossy advertisements. Just the TerraLiner, nature, and nothing else.

When it comes to farms, I suspect that your conception of what they are like may be conditioned by where you grew up, or where you live. If you live in the American mid-west where everything is flat, then farms might seem like very boring places to boondock. But if you've spent lots of time as I have in the mountainous parts of Italy, Switzerland, France, Austria, the Western United States, and New Hampshire/Vermont, then you would know that farm properties typically have spectacular views. I am not certain why you have a thing against farms. But my own experience is that farmers are typically very friendly and gracious towards visitors, if only because the the life of the farmer tends to be quite isolated.


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[biotect]

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4. The Elderly Today are Different: Better Educated, More Fit, and More Healthy


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As for changing a wheel, yes, it's a big task, but many elderly people are very fit. Thanks to hormone therapy and exercise gyms, many elderly men are now more fit than 25 years olds -- see #1983 to #1985 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1964734#post1964734 . I think you may need to change your pre-conceptions of what old people are like, and what they are capable of. If they exercise and eat right, they can actually become more healthy than many younger people -- see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ay-gives-advice-living-healthy-lifestyle.html , https://www.icaa.cc/activeagingandwellness/principles-on-activeaging-2.htm :






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[biotect]

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[video=youtube;KfWAjJinySI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfWAjJinySI [/video] [video=youtube;lKGaiQWkIPo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1627085699&feature= iv&src_vid=uPfwUvnM7AI&v=lKGaiQWkIPo[/video]


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[biotect]

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[video=youtube;PrpO7r_ALnk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrpO7r_ALnk [/video]


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[biotect]

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For the very beautiful, full-length movie that the last video describes, see http://oldyoungsea.com , http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3154406/ , and https://www.reelhouse.org/nomadearth/theoldtheyoungthesea .

Aging and retirement are not what they used to be. I'll leave it up to you, Silverado, to look up all the appropriate statistics and literature, because it's really your stereotypical conceptions of old people that need to change. As these videos make clear, millions of old people now realize that they can stay active and fit, despite their age. And millions of them really do stay active and fit. This huge change in the health, lifestyles, and expectations of the elderly has been well-documented in the social-scientific literature, as well as the popular press. If you want to deny it, then please post links or evidence of some kind. Please do not merely generalize without evidence, simply asserting your claim that old people just want to take it easy, and visit museums, casinos, and restaurants.

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[Silverado08]

Biotect
I understand exactly what you're trying to build,,however from my point of view it's not practical
And..from the lack of traffic here I honestly doubt there are many people who would care to own and drive this the way you think..

I have a suggestion. .post your TerraLiner idea on www.rv.net in class A forum or
Escapees .Com,,
These are the biggest sites where the most RVers read,,and ask how many people would be
Interested in owning such machine,,I honestly have doubts it would fly
Good luck

 

[biotect]

Hi Silverado,

Fair enough, and that's your opinion. I simply disagree, and I gave a good argument above as to why I disagree. I think motorhome advertising says a great deal about what elderly people think "ideal motorhoming" should be, even if the reality of RV parks is somewhat different. But no worries, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am banking on the idea that the product literature that I posted, where big motorhomes are glamping in the middle of nowhere, really does indicate the deepest desires that motorhomers have. Full-timing in an RV park may be fun up to a point, but one can also imagine it getting stale, claustrophobic, and a bit intrusive, much like living in a small town. One also ends up living in the "bubble" of other motorhome owners, and one does not get to know any locals that way. So camping on farmland is my big "logistical" bet. We'll see if it works.....

I may also take you up on your suggestion that once the plans and sketches are better developed, I will post them on www.rv.net , in the class-A forum. That's a very good idea, and that way I could get critical feedback from a completely different kind of blogger. At the very least, they would be bloggers who don't have a problem with size....:sombrero:

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[biotect]

I'm just trolling, but that has also been discussed before

But seriously, my first post to this thread (and ExPo) was a similar suggestion.

The easiest way would be the first option. Doesn't need external set-ups, heavy transfer of content, and the interested people are already here.

Maybe the ExPo forum admins can help and create a sub-forum focused on the TerraLiner. Biotect could be made the moderator of only that sub-forum. A master hub thread could then be set-up, and threads focusing on specific topics can be created.

Hi Libransser,

Many thanks for the support, and for the excellent suggestion. I will look into it. But note that the last time I tried to implement a change -- merely changing the thread-title -- it took the moderators about 2 weeks to get back to me. The moderators tend to be very adventurous types themselves, and as near as I can tell, they are all volunteers. So there is usually some delay in getting a response. But once they responded, there was no problem changing the thread-title.

What should we call the sub-forum? As near as I can tell, there is no specific sub-forum yet for expedition vehicles 9 m and longer. There is a sub-forum for UniCats and Unimogs, but that seems to concentrate on smaller builds. And what should be the names of the various sub-forums?

It's a really good suggestion, so must give me some ideas, and I will begin trying to implement it! The more ideas the better, so please, contributions from everyone most welcome. I also wouldn't want it to be a sub-forum that concentrates only on the TerraLIner. Rather, I"d also want it to be a place where people like egn can discuss more "medium-large" size expedition vehicles, those that are 6x6, but 9.5 m long. For maximum value, that seems like the way to go.

This would also give me a chance to transfer some other relevant threads to the same sub-forum, for instance, the thread about the Ethics of motorhoming in the Third World, and the one about Camper Thermal Engineering.

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[Libransser]

Hi Biotect,

I was referring to the administrators of the forum, not the moderators. Moderator accounts don't usually have the permissions to create new sub-forums. If there aren't Admin users here in the forum, then you may have to reach out to staff from the rest of the ExPo website, or someone from the parent company. The response should be faster due to they being staff and not volunteers.

Let me clarify the confusion. These are not the ExPo forum, but the ExPo forums, as in a collection. At least that's the terminology the vBulletin software uses, which differs a little with how some vBulletin users use it, like ExPo. I used to run forums like these several years ago.

The new sub-forum wouldn't be at the same hierarchical level than the "General Expedition Camper Discussion and Modifications" forum, but under it. You can check what this means if you look at the "Exploration and Adventure" section of forums, at the forums index: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/index.php

And I would suggest the sub-forum be exclusively about the TerraLiner. It would be just in acknowledgement that this thread (possibly the longest on ExPo, haven't checked) has grown too big to follow and it's hard to keep track of the topics, and granting it its own sub-forum would facilitate that and possibly increase further participation of other ExPo members that previously found the sheer size of the thread intimidating, overwhelming, or too big of an investment to participate.

Making it a sub-forum would help to keep it contained and focused, preventing contamination from topics not related. The shorter parallel threads would make it easier to digest, probably for all participants, and it would be easier to raise specific topics of discussion.

As the sub-forum moderator you could create sticky threads with important information, and you could merge & split threads as needed.

A breakdown example of the sub-forum could be:

|-- ExPo Forums Index
     |-- General Expedition Camper Discussion and Modifications
          |-- Exercise in Design: TerraLiner
               |-- [Sticky] What is the TerraLiner? Goals & Specifications
               |-- [Sticky] Index of topics
               |-- [Sticky] Index of potential manufacturers & providers for the TerraLiner
               |-- [Sticky] Places the TerraLiner can travel and boondock 
               |-- Camper Interior Layout & Design
               |-- Incinerator Toilets
               |-- Camper Thermal Engineering
               |-- Power Requirements Calculation
               |-- Serial vs Parallel Hybrid Drivetrains
               |-- Ethics of Motorhoming in the Third World
               |-- Suspension
               |-- Security Measures & Equipment
               |-- Solar Panels
               |-- Wind Turbines
               ...

That's just an example. I'm not sure what level of specificity would work best, but I guess with use it will reveal itself.

"Exercise in Design: TerraLiner" is just a placeholder sub-forum name and should be replaced by something short, descriptive and that entice members to take a look. Don't forget you can also write a description for the sub-forum.

It may be a good idea to get in touch with the moderator that helped you to change the title of the thread, maybe he/she can vouch for the idea, being familiar with the length of the thread.