TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

[Haf-E]

Here is a better description -

http://www.tatratrucks.com/why-tatra/tatra-vehicle-design/unique-t-810-chassis/

 

[biotect]

Regarding exterior design I always liked something like the Panther CA7 from Rosenbauer. Of course, a camper would be considerably higher.

Hi Egn,

I really enjoyed your first post in this thread, and like you, I am a big fan of the Rosenbauer Panther ARFF – see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenbauer_Panther , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_rescue_and_firefighting , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_crash_tender , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenbauer , http://www.rosenbauer.com , http://www.rosenbauer.com/en/rosenbauer-world/hauptnavigation/products/arff-vehicles/panther.html , and http://www.rosenbauer.com/fileadmin...ospekte low/Prospekt_PANTHER_E_gesamt low.pdf :



In many ways you and I seem to be on the same page. The Panther is an excellent example of the adaptability of the MAN SX-45's rigid, torsion-free box-frame, to a non-military vehicle type; and the Panther is also an excellent example of rear-engine “pusher” mounting.

Did you know: the Panther is yet another instance of a major manufacturer (in this case, Rosenbauer) shopping externally for design innovation. The Panther was imagined into being by “Spirit Design”, a terrific Austrian design consultancy based in Vienna – see http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/ , http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/about/team , http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/about , http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/work , http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/work/clients-roster/rosenbauer , http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/work/clients-roster/rosenbauer , http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/work/clients-roster/rosenbauer#project-295 , and http://www.spiritdesign.com/en/contact .

In this thread I don't want to get too side-tracked by the Panther. But over the years I've collected literally hundreds of Panther images, and thought I should post 50 or so of the best. If only because, again, the Panther demonstrates quite well how a torsion-free, rigid SX-45 frame can support a fully integrated Cab/Body.

Best wishes,



Biotect

 

[biotect]

First, some images of various Panther 8x8 vehicles:

 

[biotect]

Next, here are some Panther group shots. As per the SX-45, the Panther also comes in 6x6 and 4x4 versions:



For lots of excellent group shots of the Panther at Stansted airport, in Britain, see https://www.flickr.com/photos/43892782@N06/favorites/with/8654969149/lightbox/ .

Below are some shots of the Panther's incredible “swing-forward” doors. These doors are a bit unclassifiable, because although they are sliding doors, they are every bit as visually dramatic as scissor (lambo), gullwing, butterfly, and suicide doors – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_door_(vehicle) , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambo_doors , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gull-wing_door , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_doors , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_door :

 

[biotect]

These are photographs of the Panther Cab interior. Panther interior shots are surprisingly difficult to find on the web, in marked contrast to images of Panther exteriors, which are abundant.

Notice that, although the engine is located in the rear, the Panther seems to lack unhindered through-cabin access. The Panther's Cab-interior is flat-floor, but the center console blocks lateral movement across the cab just as effectively as an engine tunnel.

It's understandable of course, because the HRET and water cannon controls have to be located somewhere convenient, and the huge glass doors on the sides have to be left unimpeded, allowing ultra-fast exit:






Below are some photographs of the Panther's incredible curved windshield, an enormous complex-curve glass surface that provides maximum overhead visibility, so that the crew member who operates the Panther's “Stinger” High-Reach Extendable Turrret (HRET), can see what he's doing:

 

[biotect]

Thesse are photographs of the Panther's High Reach Extendable Turrret, or "HRET" (see http://www.rosenbaueramerica.com/apparatus/trucks/arff/hret/ , http://www.rosenbauer.com/en/rosenbauer-world/products/firefighting-systems/stinger.html , http://www.rosenbauer.com/en/rosenbauer-world/products/firefighting-systems/stinger.html , http://www.rosenbauer.com/fileadmin... - STINGER/HRET Stinger EN_2012-09-06 low.pdf ), and then some images of its water cannons blasting away:

 

[biotect]

Last but not least, these are images of the Panther's rear-mounted "pusher" engine (up to 1260 HP), and some additional photos, some of which show the Panther's interior opened up:

 

[egn]

The Tatra T810 is a medium sized truck comparable with the MAN TGM. It has a normal C ladder frame and is not stiff.

A T810 in action with flexing frame can be seen here.

 

[egn]

In another forum I am currently discussing concepts for conventional large class A motorhomes for long-term living.

What I also like very much is the so-called cab-under design. About 10 years ago I saw a Buessing Supercargo Decklaster and fell in love with it.

You can put a 40ft container on topbeeing your home. There are not many cab-under concepts available. The best ones I found wer from Steinwinter.
http://www.steinwinter-stuttgart.de/bilder_bus.html
http://www.steinwinter-stuttgart.de/bilder_lkw.htm
http://imcdb.org/vehicle_206906-Steinwinter-Commercial-Motor-Vehicle.html
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/09/23/as-for-jettos-truck/

There was also something available from Strick in the states.

Of course, this concept isn't that great for offroad, because of the low position of the cab. :sombrero:

 

[biotect]

In another forum I am currently discussing concepts for conventional large class A motorhomes for long-term living.

Hi egn,

Would you have a link to that other forum?

 

[egn]

Please look at the end of this Thread.

 

[biotect]

Egn,

Thanks for the link!! I haven't read all of the thread yet, but just the first page speaks volumes.

One of the questions I was going to ask you is, “What is the maximum reasonable size for a motorhome in Europe, mainstream and/or expedition?”

I read somewhere that Class-A American motorhomes like Newells, Marathons, Milleniums, etc. are totally impractical for Europe, because European RV Parks simply do not have pitches or hook-up sites that are big enough to handle them. So when I began reading that discussion on the German RV forum, it struck me that many participants seemed to think that even 12 m is an impractical or unrealistic length..... You probably already know this: the biggest American Class-A motorhomes – just named – are bigger than that: they are usually 13.7 m long. They typically push the full allowable length for 3-axle buses, and are 45 feet overall.

Sure, the Newell and those built on a Prevost chassis (Millennium, Featherlite, Marathon, Liberty) will all have rear-axle steering, courtesy of ZF industries. But as one participant on that German forum remarked, rear-axle steering is no a magic solution, because you still need room to back up and maneuver. Furthermore, even if some European RV parks have a few extra-big pitches, these are usually occupied.

Road-regulations are not the issue, because these are similar in Europe and America. Throughout Europe maximum height is almost always 4m, maximum width 2.55 m, and 3-axle coaches in most countries can extend up to 15 m -- see http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/IntOrg/road/pdf/dimensions.pdf , http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/IntOrg/road/pdf/Coach.pdf , and http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/IntOrg/road/dimensions.html . Coaches pulling trailers can run to 18.75 m overall, and Ketterer in particular seems to exploit this, attaching 5.0 m or 5.5 m supplementary trailers to its 12 m long horse-hauling motorhomes -- see http://www.ketterer-trucks.de/en/models/category/c/equestrian/model/professional-trailer-2.html :





However, I suspect that the world of motorhome horse-boxes is a bit rarified, and that stables, riding schools, and horse-racing tracks probably have plenty of extra-large pitches to accommodate such vehicles. Whereas in the wider world of European RV parks, even if the road-regulations allow you drive a 15 m monster, if you can't occasionally find a pitch large enough to handle your vehicle, then what's the point in going beyond, say, 10 m?

Even still, I should probably ask you the question:

"Egn, based on your own experience, what do you personally think is the maximum reasonable length for a 'full-timing' motorhome in Europe, including Russia, mainstream and/or expedition?"

Your own KAT-based expedition motorhome is 10 m long, right?

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[egn]

The length limit by law for a single vehicle is 12 m, except for buses which can be 14 m long. So vehicles registered as campers are limited to 12 m. If you have a bus drivers license you can register it as bus.

The total length of vehicle including trailer is 18.75 m.

For practical reasons single RV shouldn't be longer than 10 m. Anything longer gets problems find a place on a camping place. The RV places without special camping services may allow for larger vehicles, because they are often a part of a regular parking area.

My camper is about 9.3 m long.

A problem for long vehicles is often the maximum turning circle which is 25 m. The KAT I 8x8 has one that is 26.5 m. For military registration this is no problem, but for civil registration sometimes tricks has to be used to get it registered. My 6x6 has about 20 m just like the 4x4.

 

[grizzlyj]

Hiya

I believe Euro bridges are normally 4.5m on main roads. Outside that of course anything applies and varies greatly depending in my view on a countries history. The UK for instance have quite a few people in not too big an area with a lot of old industry, so there are a great deal of old, low bridges for trains as well as roads and even canals in lots of places, but also good maps showing where these limitations are.

As far as I can find there isn't a road map of Spain with bridge heights on, although obviously low bridges are signposted before you get to them. So you won't hit a low bridge but route planning seems impossible. The majority seem to be 4.5m though, less people, more space, less dense industrial history IMHO, new bridges built to the 4.5m standard Fine on main routes, not always as good away from where delivery trucks run.

In Morocco the Michelin maps show weight (a few) and height (I think two!) limits allowing route planning, but these proved to be quite different to the signs actually at some bridges :Wow1:

Stephen Stewarts site says Russian bridges are often 3.5m, and many campsites have a nice arch at the entrance which may mean you have to park outside (if possible) making actually using the campsite facilities tricky.

The majority of Euro campers are built to be 5.99m to just catch ferry toll limits and standard campsite parking. Beyond this it will vary campsite to campsite, maybe forcing prebooking and just ruling out a great many. You may think they'll let you park on the grass for tents unlike a big 4x2 RV which requires hardstanding, but local planning laws may have dictated how many camper spaces and they won't want 20 tons compressing their nice grass. Even if you don't sink the inch deep tread blocks of Michelin XZLs make quite a mess by themselves. In England and Wales parking overnight not in a campsite can be very difficult, contentious and strictly speaking illegal, Scotland easier. Across the Channel much easier.

Pop outs and pop ups for what you seem to be aiming for will allow you more places perhaps?

To have a huge all wheel drive camper and consider Euro campsite use seems a bit contradictory though???

 

[egn]

The world biggest RV?