The 2016 Toyota Tacoma Revealed
- Thread starter Exploring Elements
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bkg
Explorer
You're not an engineer are you
Does that matter? You have a company that sells stout (no pun intended) trucks in all countries but the US with boxed frames, but then touts the benefits of flexy-frame in the US... The country with the least amount of "wheeling" per thousand units... Contradiction?
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Ever heard of the unimog? How about the gwagen? Both from same company.
As stated before. A rigid Frame is not stronger. Just more rigid.
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bkg
Explorer
You avoided my question. We could go down the unimog/tractor trailer BS thread again... For the most part, they have floating cabs intentionally designed to survive frame flex. Toyota does not. So why is the non-boxed frame an engineering marvel in the US and, apparently, not good enough for rest of the Toyota market?
locrwln
Expedition Leader
^^I agree. No matter what smoke is blown, the maxim of "you can tune a suspension, but you can't tune a frame" still holds. So Toyota is sticking with their "C" channel frames allow an extra 1" of travel/drum rear brakes are better story on the new Tacoma. But heah, at least they have an electronic inclometer option. :sombrero:
Jack
Jack
bkg
Explorer
What I can't reconcile is the attitude that Toyota "got it right" by avoiding things that every other mfg.... Including Toyota... Is doing.
Praise Toyota for the only wet noodle frame on a truck because their engineered are super smart. Way smarter than GM, Ford, Dodge, Nissan... And Toyota (non-US) engineers who are clearly out of their minds for using boxed frames... Or rear discs.
Toyota is not perfect. And they cannot/will not improve as long as there are people who are vocal about how perfect they are, even when they contradict themselves across markets.
/frustrated Toyota fan (on Toyota 54,55,56... Still have Toyota 49) - estimates.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
You're obviously too dense to grasp the concept. Why can't you fanboys answer why is a boxed frame ONLY used on a LIGHT DUTY truck. Why are they not used in heavy duty trucks? That's right, you don't have a reason other than "well they used to do it and they do it overseas. Waaah I want I want I want. The original fj40 wasn't boxed front to rear. Why don't you show me a scenario where a c channel has failed.
Once again. You're not an engineer. Why don't you go and design a truck with all your Wisdom you think you have.
The following is a signature.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
brianjwilson
Some sort of lost...
Many of us prefer the ride and handling of a boxed frame that provides a stiffer chassis. It absolutely makes a difference, especially off road. I don't care if it is "stronger" by your definition of being able to carry more weight, I prefer a more rigid frame. Simple as that. I had an 06 F150 with a fully boxed frame and welded cross members and it felt so much more confident over uneven surfaces and off road compared to a Tundra, and compared to the previous generation of F150. I could pull the truck onto something and lift a tire, and all of the body lines still lined up just right. Doors opened and closed with ease. No squeaking or creaking of the cab or bed. Which is more than I can say for most every C channel truck I've owned.
Continual twisting of the cab off road is putting stress on every joint. Does it mean anything is going to fail, probably not. But in the long run it won't be as tight as it would have been on a more rigid chassis.
They probably use a boxed frame overseas because the truck is used more as a truck there. Hauling more weight and used off road more. Most Americans commute in their truck and drive to the grocery store and couldn't care less about what's going on underneath. It is a cost saving measure like the rear drum brakes. Nobody wants drum brakes off road, what a stupid argument (but one that most Americans have no clue about, and would accept as credible). Toyota will tell their fan boys and soon they will start bragging about how they have the only modern truck with drum brakes.
Thank you for being able to discuss something in a civl manner.
And I agree, it really does come down to cost and intended use. There's writing on the wall for what Toyota thinks people use the Tacoma for, and it is NOT heavy towing or hauling. Heck their engineers have said so themselves.
bkg
Explorer
Amen. Very well stated.
bkg
Explorer
Your definition of failure is different than mine, I suspect. Gen 1 tacomas are well known to flex so bad that the box can dent the cack of the cab. I consider that a failure. My 04, which is almost fully boxed now, still flexes s lot in the nom boxed area - enough to allow the tcase and body to touch. I consider that failure. Tundras have similar problems.
I do g understand why you insist on comparing the Tacoma fram to anything but its competition. The Tacoma is not a unimog or a tractor or a 40 year old fj (which had a partially boxed frame of s thickness insanely different than a Tacoma. I still struggle with the arguemenf that non-boxed is better "because" when Toyota only uses it on two light duty vehicles.... And nobody else does. Are toyota america engineers (dana, still?) really better than ford, dodge, Nissan, gm and non-American toyota engineers?
Btw -adding all pro sliders to my '10 Tacoma changed tbd handling and ride characteristics quite significantly - I suspect due to stiffening the frame where it really needed it.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Ok so it's all about feelings.
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"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
So show me pictures of your dented cab. You've yet done that as I have asked before. I have a hard time understanding why you think you know someone that has a degree in engineering but yet you know so much more than they do. you have not explained why they are better. Other than being rigid. You keep saying that the Tacoma isn't a mog or a whatever else truck. You keep beating around the bush with your explanation. At least the other guy admitted its all about feelings. It feels good.
The following is a signature.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
bkg
Explorer
Since you're so big on what I do for a living - are you an automotive structural engineer? Are you going to continue to fall in a belief that Dana engineers are smarter than Toyota Global engineers? Are they smarter than Ford, Nissan, Dodge, GM engineers, too? If so, why? You keep avoiding that question and comparing to vehicles built for different purposes. Not sure why you can't compare to like-class vehicles.
I've posted pics of dented cabs before, but since I'm such a nice guy, here it is again. And since I know you'll immediately try to blame this on jumping the truck or anything else you can think of, do a quick Bing or Google search on "Tacoma bed denting cab." It's a very common problem when people carry load... that's what happens when you have a flexy frame.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Yea it's so common not one pictures came up
http://bfy.tw/1QSD
If ford engineers are so smart, why do the only use it on one truck? If it's so amazing, why don't they use is on everything. You're obviously so arrogant you're not getting the point of why I compare it to heavy duty trucks.
Here it is Barney style
Tacomas and the like are light duty. Do you know that that means? They do not carry a lot of weight.
Ok. Heavy duty trucks are, that's right heavy duty. They carry lots of weight. Are you still with me?
Why is it that a truck (now this is an example) such as a unimog can carry lots and lots of weight off road utilize a super flexy frame? Oh that's right it was designed that way on purpose. Who cares of a frontier uses a boxed frame. Who cares of whatever 1/4 ton truck out there uses a boxed frame. If a mog ( yes it's flexy on purpose. Mercedes has said its part of the suspension) can use it, I have faith that it'll be ok for something as light as a Tacoma. Or even a tundra for that matter. If the guy that made the thing said he did it on purpose, then he has faith that it will be ok. Once again show me where a c channel has ever failed. And no your picture is not it failing.
The second one is Mercedes showing off how much it flexes.
The following is a signature.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."