silvrzuki77
explorer
Ditto! I learned alot from your build.
The CrowsWing - Offroad Teardrop Trailer
- Thread starter jim65wagon
- Start date
matthewp
Combat Truck Monkey
Ditto to the ditto! And thanks for answering all my PMs too! You and your build have been a great asset in the design and construction of my trailer.
jim65wagon
Well-known member
jim65wagon said:
As I previously stated, we had a major failure of the trailer's tongue. It started slowly and was unnoticed for the first summer. It began a slow bend, but by the end of camping season it was quite noticeable. We pondered over the winter on the why it bent as well as the how to fix it.
The why (and no, this will not become an argument of steel vs aluminum) is a matter of the wrong thickness tubing. The tongue is a stacked set of 2”x3” x 1/8” thick aluminum tubing. This is the same tubing used in the cross members of the frame. The main frame rails are bigger and thicker tubing than the tongue. The “A”frame under the tongue box was supposed to go farther up the main tongue than it actually does, losing a lot of additional support.
Our (temporary – until we could find a competent aluminum repair shop/welder) fix was to install 2 3/16” thick steel tubes in both tubes of the tongue. That almost worked. I parked the front receiver of the truck over the leading edge of the tongue and we used the floor jack under the main frame of the trailer to press the tongue back to a nearly straight line.
We greased up our first tube and hammered it into the lower channel of the tongue and bolted it into place. The upper tube turned out to be a no-go due to the design the trailer company used to mount the max-coupler hitch.
Here is the tongue post "fix" You can still see a slight bend in it as well as the bolts for the front half of the steel tube insert.
And underneath you can see the bolts holding the rear half of the insert
We wound up with just the single added steel support to get us through our camping season this year. Before and after each trip we measured the curvature of the tongue to see if it had moved any. We were always happy to find that it was the same as when we installed our support tube.
Before our Monongahela trip we noticed a crack in the bottom of the aluminum tube (right where the tongue meets the tongue box frame)that wasn't there before. We went on the trip anyway (oh my! Was the drive nerve-wracking) and the crack worsened. The next (and last)trip was close to home and we watched as the crack eventually circumnavigated the entire tube.
Underneath:
side:
Top:
We parked the trailer and put in a concerted effort to find a company or person to fix our baby. We found Cox Trailers in Maryland did aluminum trailers and trailer repair. They kept the trailer for about a month and talked through about 16 ways they could fix it.They finally (and thankfully) settled on cutting the old tongue out completely and replacing it with a 1/4” thick tube inside 2 1/4”thick C-channels welded together into tube form. The first 12” ofthe original tongue was fit inside all of this to maintain the max-coupler set-up. They also added some tubing as an additional A-frame that goes way under the trailer frame itself. Our thanks goes to JD, George and Dave for the excellent repair. It's built like they build their horse trailers and as JD said, “You may wind up just dragging the tongue around if the camper falls apart, but that tongue will never break”
That makes me feel a lot better!
before: ...................................................................after:
Now it looks like it should have from the beginning, it is with a feeling of immense relief that I can look at the trailer tongue now and not get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. The repair was pricey but worth every penny.
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I'm not an engineer but I play one on TV and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Now that we have gotton the legal stuff out of the way.
I'm not telling you something that you haven't already figured out but I would have used at least the minumum thickness that I would have used in steel. That would have been 1/4 wall steel tubing. I probably would have gone thicker with aluminum. I know aluminum is strong but it isn't stronger when you are using the same thinkness. The tongue is probably what gets the most stress on the trailer.
When I have my trailer built by my "Trailer Guy" as I call him, I always go over what materials he is using and usually go stronger on some items, never weaker. He has experience and engineered plans so I know I'm good to go.
Sorry you had to go through that and I'm not trying to Monday morning quaterback.
I'm not telling you something that you haven't already figured out but I would have used at least the minumum thickness that I would have used in steel. That would have been 1/4 wall steel tubing. I probably would have gone thicker with aluminum. I know aluminum is strong but it isn't stronger when you are using the same thinkness. The tongue is probably what gets the most stress on the trailer.
When I have my trailer built by my "Trailer Guy" as I call him, I always go over what materials he is using and usually go stronger on some items, never weaker. He has experience and engineered plans so I know I'm good to go.
Sorry you had to go through that and I'm not trying to Monday morning quaterback.
jim65wagon
Well-known member
Yeah, see that's where we deferred to the "expertise" of "Trailer Guys" who build trailers for a living and bill themselves as custom builders. They are also a five hour drive away and were impossible to contact through emails or phone calls. In the end we were lucky to get our trailer at all.
Yes, in hindsight, and after research using the tongue strength spreadsheets on the TNTTT site (anyone building their own trailer should check out the spreadsheet) we know the tongue was built for a 1500 lb trailer, not the 3500 lbs (loaded and ready for camping) that our teardrop weighs. We learn things as we go through life as and we know so much more than when we started this project.
We were able to visit the repair shop a few times, and talked to them extensively on materials and technique. A total opposite experience than the original builders. Our new-found knowledge aided us greatly in those conversations, along with the willingness of JD to have lengthy phone and face-to-face talks about the repair.
Our next trailer will be much better built, with a lot more input from us. I'll be so smart by the time I'm dead.....
luk4mud
Explorer
Jim,
Loved the video, thanks for sharing it and your extensive knowledge. I am "borrowing" ideas from your build right now. Question, it looks like you have one door and that to put in the outside access to basement storage would not allow for a second door (assuming I want to keep the height the same)?
Loved the video, thanks for sharing it and your extensive knowledge. I am "borrowing" ideas from your build right now. Question, it looks like you have one door and that to put in the outside access to basement storage would not allow for a second door (assuming I want to keep the height the same)?
jim65wagon
Well-known member
I'm not quite understanding your question. We have 2 doors, and 2 basement access doors. One of each on each side of the trailer.[COLOR=#000000 said:
Drivers side:
Passenger side:
If you go all the way back to post number 56, there are detailed photographs showing how the basement is made. It's split down the centerline of the trailer so one half the basement is accessible from each side. The bedroom sits on top of the box that forms the basement. The dividing line from the exterior view would be where the black side panel meets the diamondplate.
To confuse you further: Our walls are 5 feet tall. The basement takes up the first foot of that, and the bedroom is the other 4 feet. For all intents and purposes we have a 4'tall x 5'wide x 10' long teardrop sitting atop a 1'tall box. If that explanation doesn't help please PM me for further confusion, read the entire build thread, have SierraMadre PM me and read the thread.
matthewp
Combat Truck Monkey
That's about right. I've also copied Jim's design (with a slightly different frame set-up, per advise from Jim) and that is what I did
matthewp
Combat Truck Monkey
With 31" tires under my trailer, my trailer is going to be about 6' 8" at the roof, no taller than my Jeep. It may not be as bad as you think.
luk4mud
Explorer
I am on 35's to match my Jeep. I want to make sure I stay in the slipstream of the Jeep if possible. I have no clue whether 4' completely keeps me there, but have less chance at 5'.
matthewp
Combat Truck Monkey
Well, if it's a choice between lifting the Jeep or lowering the trailer... I say, "Lift that Mutha!!!!" :elkgrin: