The dieimma of purchasing a new Toyota

[Clutch]

We're getting 17+ with FWC w/most options and loaded of gear...

That is generally what I am reading what the Taco's are getting. Though, me personally I would want a bit more power under the hood with a FWC. Not sure how you Taco w/FWC guys are staying within payload...even with my fuzzy math, I can't get the numbers to work.

 

[Dalko43]

I get 19 to 21 mpg with my 2011 TRD OR V6 Auto with Duratracs (that reportedly take off about 2mpg) I've owned 2 diesel trucks....and will not own another. Mileage is offset by higher fuel cost, increased cost for routine maintenance, cost of any major repairs needed during it's life, and increased purchase price. I'll take a gasser ANY day. In a business I owned, we ran 2 diesels along side of a couple gas powered 3/4-tons that were otherwise IDENTICAL to the diesels. They did the exact same work. (Towing 30' gooseneck trailers with same loads) Over 200,000 miles, the gas trucks were about 30% cheaper to own and operate. Resale was less than 5% difference when I went to sell them. Long story short, if I had it to do all over again, I'd have bought 4 gas trucks.

US emissions standards are different than other countries. With that, you cannot directly compare fuel averages from other parts of the world. Apples to oranges....

Where I live, you can find diesel at $2.30, which is about 9c less then what the most expensive 87octane gasoline is going for. Granted, the average price of diesel is a bit higher than $2.30, but not by much. I just don't think that the price discrepancy between diesel and gasoline is as bad as some people make it out to be, especially considering how expensive some of the higher octane gasoline is.

As for maintenance/cost comparisons between gasoline and diesel engines, I'll only say that different people have different priorities. Someone looking for a longterm (think more than 400k miles and beyond), hauling rig with moderate fuel economy (given its class) may value the diesel over a gasser and be willing to cope with the higher maintenance costs. Someone just looking for a vehicle to get from point A to point B, not really worried about mpg or huge torque outputs (atleast anything outside of what an gasser V8 or turbo V6 can provide) and will ditch the vehicle for something newer in 6-7 years would likely find the gasser more appealing than the diesel counterpart.

Though I would be interested in seeing a cost comparison between your fleet diesel and gasser vehicles over a longer interval (say something like 350k-450k). I'd be willing to bet, that at a certain mileage gasoline engine maintenance starts to cost the same or more than diesel maintenance due to the requirement for engine rebuilds and significant repairs.

 

[Clutch]

Where I live, you can find diesel at $2.30, which is about 9c less then what the most expensive 87octane gasoline is going for. Granted, the average price of diesel is a bit higher than $2.30, but not by much. I just don't think that the price discrepancy between diesel and gasoline is as bad as some people make it out to be, especially considering how expensive some of the higher octane gasoline is.

As for maintenance/cost comparisons between gasoline and diesel engines, I'll only say that different people have different priorities. Someone looking for a longterm (think more than 400k miles and beyond), hauling rig with moderate fuel economy (given its class) may value the diesel over a gasser and be willing to cope with the higher maintenance costs. Someone just looking for a vehicle to get from point A to point B, not really worried about mpg or huge torque outputs (atleast anything outside of what an gasser V8 or turbo V6 can provide) and will ditch the vehicle for something newer in 6-7 years would likely find the gasser more appealing than the diesel counterpart.

Though I would be interested in seeing a cost comparison between your fleet diesel and gasser vehicles over a longer interval (say something like 350k-450k). I'd be willing to bet, that at a certain mileage gasoline engine maintenance starts to cost the same or more than diesel maintenance due to the requirement for engine rebuilds and significant repairs.

Go ask forum member "Larry" about fleet gas vs. diesel...he'll give ya an earful on the subject.


Diesel is $2.69 here, 87 I have seen for $1.95. Idaho is the land of the diesel truck though...never seen so many in one place.

For Joe Average consumer...and since we are talking about Tacomas here. I would compared the diesel Colorado. Cheapest 4WD Colorado oil burner is $40K, cheapest 4WD Tacoma is $25K...doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which is the better value...sure the Collie will yank around a load a bit better, but is it worth $15K? That $15K buys an awful lot of fuel and beer!

 

[SDDiver5]

IMO, I think the Trail is better than the TRD Pro. You pay a premium for the PRO and you're not really gaining all that much other than a few skids, a grille and a minor suspension improvement. I'd say go the SR5 or Trail. Trail will get you the locker which most of us will never use but like to know we have it. The white PRO sure does look good tho. Very aggressive....but not for the $.

 

[benji5280]

I was never really considering diesel regardless of what it's strapped to. The Chevy Colorado was in the hunt as a possibility, but with the Colorado and the Tacoma so close in price and really the Colorado, may be a thousand or so more why take the risk. The Taco has more than accounted for itself in resale value, the Colorado, is an unknown in that department. The Colorado, diesel was not a huge draw to me as, you can't find one in the Denver area and the price of diesel is much more expensive than gas. I don't track it, but it's more than a nickel or a dime. The mouthpieces that write reviews were all twitterpated over the new duramax diesel Colorado. What really stood out to me in the reviews was how much they liked the transmission and having something else to write about other than Tacomas. You got to know it must be boring only having one thing to write about for the last decade, and that one thing, hasn't changed all that much in a decade.

I will say, as much as I really started this whole thing off as what Toyota to buy, Tacoma or 4Runner, the idea of a half ton pick up has creeped into the picture. Looking around the interweb for trucks in the Denver area a new F-150 with 2.7 or 3.5, 6 banger, or even the Chevy Silverado with a V8, can be had for sub $30K or mid $30's with some bling on it. These are 2015 units but still, lot of truck for the money, these trucks are not untested, untried units either. Makes one think. I don't know that the resale on the Ford or Chevy is comparable to Toyota but I plan on having this rig for a long time and one thing I have going for me, if I want to trade it or sell it in the future, I will have a very low milage vehicle to sell. I bet I put less then 8,000 per year on this thing after the first year and the newness has worn off. I have a 13 year old Wrangler with 80,000 miles on it. That POS is worth way more than it should be. Least I digress, Jeeps just aren't for me so let's not get going on that topic. It was fun when my kids were young and they both learned to drive behind the wheel of it, I guess it does have a spot in my heart, but I hate it as a fishing and hunting rig, really I just hate it in general.

This whole topic has consumed so much conversation between the long suffering girlfriend and me (I), that talk now is that she will get rid of her higher milage Acura MDX or whatever it's called, and get a 4Runner, and I will pop for a new Silverado, F150 or Tacoma. I will keep my sadan for work and city driving. That may be the best of all worlds.

But the basic dieimma still remains if not more complicated. Long suffering GF says, I'm mind f'$%^ing it to death.

 

[benji5280]

If I was doing it today I think I would go for the 4Runner Trail Premium and an F150 with the 3.5. Or the Silverado, never been much of a Ford guy. That Ford does have a lot to offer I think. As someone mentioned, I am going to take a day off next week and drive them all back to back and figure out what one(s) to buy. Hope GF, likes her new 4Runner. Thinking, I talk her into buying that, then I don't really have to buy anything, just swipe her rig, she probably wont mind dog smell, rod holder on the roof and dead stuff in the back. Not too many farts happen on those runs to South Dakota.

 

[Dalko43]

Diesel is $2.69 here, 87 I have seen for $1.95. Idaho is the land of the diesel truck though...never seen so many in one place.

The cheapest gas is going for $1.75 in Idaho while the highest price is going for $2.50.

Likewise, the cheapest diesel is going for $2.30, though the average price is somewhat higher. From: http://www.idahogasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A

My point in bringing that up is that diesel is not nearly as expensive as some folks make it out to be.

For Joe Average consumer...and since we are talking about Tacomas here. I would compared the diesel Colorado. Cheapest 4WD Colorado oil burner is $40K, cheapest 4WD Tacoma is $25K...doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which is the better value...sure the Collie will yank around a load a bit better, but is it worth $15K? That $15K buys an awful lot of fuel and beer!

I'm wasn't comparing the tacoma to a 3/4 ton diesel; though I do think that if full sized pickups are going to be considered, a diesel is well worth a look at that point.

Also is the pricing on the diesel Colorado even published on Chevy's site yet? I think if we are going to compare pricing, as you have, we really need to do an accurate comparison of all the features and options that come with each for a certain price point.

 

[Dalko43]

If I was doing it today I think I would go for the 4Runner Trail Premium and an F150 with the 3.5. Or the Silverado, never been much of a Ford guy. That Ford does have a lot to offer I think. As someone mentioned, I am going to take a day off next week and drive them all back to back and figure out what one(s) to buy. Hope GF, likes her new 4Runner. Thinking, I talk her into buying that, then I don't really have to buy anything, just swipe her rig, she probably wont mind dog smell, rod holder on the roof and dead stuff in the back. Not too many farts happen on those runs to South Dakota.

4runner for the girlfriend? Does she enjoy truck-like handling and a less refined interior...I mean if that's her thing, more power to her, but most of the girls I've met would prefer something like an Acura MDX to a 4runner any day of the week.

I agree that you need to test drive these vehicles, and check out the storage space while you're at it. As for the Tacoma's resale value advantage over the other brands, I'd say don't worry about that. The Toyota trucks have good resale value now. That doesn't mean they'll continue to have good resale value in the future. Things change, and rarely does anyone foretell these changes. Buy the vehicle that you like and want, buy one that has a decent reputation for reliability and don't worry about resale...of course if you buy used, you can mitigate a lot of the resale issue, since you'll be eliminating a good chunk of the depreciation factor....

 

[benji5280]

the MDX is a nice car, good power, smooth, refined drive, reliable as hell, I can see why it checks all the boxes for her. She has never driven or even been in a 4Runner, so that is an open question. I don’t want to lean on her to get one if it doesn’t serve her purposes, or speak to her in some way.

The diesel for the Colorado is about a $4,500 add on all other things being equal, I think. I have driven the Colorado in gas form and it was nice. I guess I didnt focus on it due to the lack of off road credibility, reliability unknowns. It will get a re look next week when I do some serious test driving. I just don't know how one goes about justifying a diesel for my mission. Forget about the camper towing thing I tossed out at the beginning.

I really don’t want to get into the mid $40s on this outing. A tricked out 4Runner or Colorado will get me to mid forties pretty quickly. That $30K half ton sounds better and better all the time.

I really do just want a good honest truck that can do the highway and get me to the rivers, fields and back country within reason. All with a little comfort and economy, or as much economy as one can expect with this kind of mission.

 

[Clutch]

The cheapest gas is going for $1.75 in Idaho while the highest price is going for $2.50.

Likewise, the cheapest diesel is going for $2.30, though the average price is somewhat higher. From: http://www.idahogasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A

My point in bringing that up is that diesel is not nearly as expensive as some folks make it out to be.

Just going by what is at the station I go to.

No, I don't think diesel is expensive....at the moment.

I'm wasn't comparing the tacoma to a 3/4 ton diesel; though I do think that if full sized pickups are going to be considered, a diesel is well worth a look at that point.

Didn't think you were comparing a Tacoma to a 3/4 ton diesel.

In this application of a hunting rig, I would still go with gas with a 3/4 ton over diesel....all my buddies with diesels...all they do is ***** and moan about their oil burners. Not to mention diesels are $8,000+ more right off the bat. Unless you're towing heavy, wouldn't even bother.

Also is the pricing on the diesel Colorado even published on Chevy's site yet? I think if we are going to compare pricing, as you have, we really need to do an accurate comparison of all the features and options that come with each for a certain price point.

It is.

Problem is with the Chevy you have to pick a certain package (LT/Z71) to get the diesel option...so trying to exact same features (or lack there of) that is available on the base Tacoma is impossible. Maybe if they offered it in their WT model, it would be a better comparison...but they don't...so it is what it is. I care more about the bottom line, than a bunch of fluff I don't need. Want a diesel midsize? It is going to cost at least $40K. If you don't care about diesel (raising hand!) cheapest 4WD Tacoma is $25K...schweeeet....in a manual trans too!? Get out of town, my homie! With one of the most reliable engines ever made....shuddup! Noes waaaay!? Downsides? It is slooooow...ahh who cares, I ain't in a hurry...I like lookin' at the purdy scenery.

That said, 1/2 Ton is probably the best buy out there right now...quite a bit of truck, that gets roughly the same mpg as a Tacoma, a bunch more power, and a bit more room, in the $30K range. Midsizes don't make much sense to me anymore.

 

[Clutch]

4runner for the girlfriend? Does she enjoy truck-like handling and a less refined interior...I mean if that's her thing, more power to her, but most of the girls I've met would prefer something like an Acura MDX to a 4runner any day of the week.

Majority of the females I see here drive diesel 3/4-1 tons, for hauling their horses.

Quite a few female hunters up this way too...little surprised as we have only been here just over a year.


Shoot, mine wants an old farm truck to drive back and forth to work...and she is a petite little thing.

 

[Clutch]

I really don't want to get into the mid $40s on this outing. A tricked out 4Runner or Colorado will get me to mid forties pretty quickly. That $30K half ton sounds better and better all the time.

I really do just want a good honest truck that can do the highway and get me to the rivers, fields and back country within reason. All with a little comfort and economy, or as much economy as one can expect with this kind of mission.

Yeah, just go test drive them all, the "right" one will speak to you. Tell you the truth they are all nice, couldn't go wrong with any of them. Which one is the most reliable is all who talk to.

Think the cheapest I have seen are the Rams, every now and then I spy one under $30K.

 

[PirateMcGee]

Gents, Long time lurker, first post. In the midst of a dilemma here. Long winded but stay with me. You guys love this stuff, you know you do.
I am having a real problem deciding what truck to end up with, on top of that, what particular truck in the line or trim level, once I figure out Tacoma or 4 Runner. I have owned 40 vehicles in the last 30 years. Everything from trucks, suv's, sports cars and motorcycles. I have never put in this much research or hand wringing over a purchase. I guess I felt they were all disposable. Drive them for a few years, sell them, turn in on a lease or whatever.
Never have owned a Toyota, any Toyota. Always wanted a Land Cruiser never pulled the trigger. I can't pull the trigger on a $85,000 rig and don't really want to get a $50,000 used rig that is going on 6 to 8 years old. I don't want a 10 to 15 year old rig for $15 to 20 thousand either. The Equipt postings have a little to do with this.
So, I'm down to a 4 Runner or a Tacoma. I have decided on new, around here (front range Colorado) the used ones are within striking distance of a new one. I don't really see the point of saving 3 to 5 thousand dollars on a used one with 20 to 30 thousand miles on it vs a new one. This is also a truck that I plan to have for some time to come. I am getting close to retiring and really don't feel like I will be trading in and out of cars, can't afford it either. This truck does not have to be a daily driver. I have a sedan for city and highway driving with work and the family. This new rig will probably do a little skiing and what not.
My main passions and what I spend my spare time doing is fly fishing and bird hunting. Both require some significant travel on the interstate, then smaller and smaller roads, getting down to dirt and often the last mile or 100 is 4x4, dirt, lose rock, you name it, then sometimes completely off road through crop fields and farm and ranch ruts that they call roads more like trails and paths. I also launch a raft and or a drift boat off a trailer, then you have to recover it. The put ins and take outs are often very crude, if you didn't know it was a put in, or take out you wouldn't even notice it.
I have a jeep wrangler that does some of this duty now but it is not a highway car, very loud, very busy, and not geared properly for much of anything in my opinion. They really are almost worthless unless all you do is wheel and you don't take much in the way of equipment. Not much room and not very comfortable in a nut shell. The Jeep is good for my missions of 30 miles from the house in the mountains of central Colorado. Much more than that and I have to wear my shooting range ear muffs. The gas mileage vs performance delivered, is a joke. Don't hate on me jeep guys, I think Jeeps are great if all you do is wheel and that is the passion, you do a ton of work to get them to the point that you can really wheel them. Jeep Wranglers are just not for me.
What I need is a truck that is capable of handling 500 to 800 mile highway drives with equipment for fishing and hunting, fishing rods, guns, decoys, clothing, dog and dog kennel, that kind of thing. The pay load needs to be secure on some level and in addition to 10 to 16 hour highway drives, it has to be able to go that last 5 or 100 miles, be it the farmers ruts, a high Colorado mountain, unimproved pass, Arizona quail hunting grounds or New Mexico elk hunting.
I do not intend to camp out of it, I might pull a 3000 to 4000 lbs camper someday . I would like to hang a 275 lbs motor cycle off a rack in the back once in a while. I'm not looking to outfit it as some kind of doomsday prepper rig.
So, this is what I want and will do with it. I would guess your all in agreement that a Toyota 4 Runner or Tacoma is a good choice.
Now what trim level. I am of two minds here. Buy the base model of either one and then take it to a place like Slee Off Road, in Golden, Co. (less than a mile from my office) have an OME suspension and 3” lift with heaver springs etc., a bumper and winch installed and some extra lighting or buy the Off Road TRD model and just have them put on a bumper and winch and that's about it.
Seems like a guy would almost be better off buying an SR in the Taco and having the work done by a Slee, than buying up in to a $38,000+ Off Road Model and then breathing on it a little more with some mods.
A Taco would most likely need a topper or Truck cap to keep things secure and dry.
That would leave the 4 Runner, same basic question about trim levels, does a guy get a Trail addition with KDSS and all that or go with a base level SR5 and do a build from there?
The Taco has the new motor, drum brakes, is a tuck, has a c frame, the 4 runner has the fully boxed frame, disk brakes, fully enclosed, older motor. Seems like they both have their calling cards, either one would be a good choice but if a guy was going to do this one time, what would he do?
Keep in mind that I don't wheel for the sake of wheeling, I do need some of the advantages of having a Equipt type rig but don't intend to sleep in it and use it as a camper (water system, refrigerator system, duel batteries, hot water, cooking platforms and propane storage, and on and on) but do like the advantages of a robust vehicle with options to haul light weight trailers up to a small camper or motor cycle, some extra lighting, and have all of this in a truck that I can hop in and drive to West Yellowstone, Montana, or Pierre, South Dakota, without feeling like I have been in a blender for 10 hours or used a metric ton of gas.
Tacoma or 4Runner, stock and build it up a bunch, or upgrade and build it up a little.

Thank you, Mark

Tacoma, for one reason. You hunt. Carrying dead things inside no matter how well they are wrapped can be unpleasant in my experience. Although really a domestic half ton would work better for you.....F150 with FX4 package is what I would pick for you.

 

[Adventurous]

I was given a rental F150 EcoBoost before I picked up my Tacoma, so I can at least provide a 1 week comparison of the two. The F150 felt very large, both dimensionally as well as handling wise. The interior space was significantly larger than the Tacoma which, while nice for some larger folk, just felt unnecessary to me (5'7"). It definitely felt like it had tighter handling, some of which can be attributed to the stiffer suspension the rest of which I felt was the light, almost disconnected feeling steering. The turbo engine however did scream and it was a blast to get into it and let it roar. More of a novelty thing to me as I rarely need that kind of get up and go at my disposal. I did enjoy my brief time with it, it just wasn't the truck for me.

 

[Adventurous]

Majority of the females I see here drive diesel 3/4-1 tons, for hauling their horses.

Quite a few female hunters up this way too...little surprised as we have only been here just over a year.


Shoot, mine wants an old farm truck to drive back and forth to work...and she is a petite little thing.

Funny how that works. Mine has no real interest in cars and was perfectly happy with her bare bones Civic until I showed her an old Dodge Power Wagon. Now she's all about it and wants to get one and learn how to restore it. Who am I to say no to that? :smiley_drive: