The Gubblemobile- Series III from hell.
- Thread starter Alaska Mike
- Start date
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Let me get the other tank in, and we'll talk.Josh said:
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
That's my thought. My experience is that sitting over a sloshing gas tank is unsettling for some people. However, a small poly water tank (say 5 gallons) with a hot water shower system would earn all sorts of bonus points with the wife.Yorker said:
Right now I'm deciding on how to proceed with the engine. The costs to rebuild an engine through a machine shop have skyrocketed up here in the last 10 years, so I'm exploring my options. I could certainly run the engine as-is, but I'd rather have the piece of mind that comes with knowing the condition before I go out on the road- especially on an extended trip.
In for a penny, in for a gazillion dollars...
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment; would there be a better choice if you had to go with a well done rebuild?
Seems like you're teetering on the brink of possibly being money ahead with another choice. Not that I think that you should have a V8 in there (I read that part & agree with the logic), just that perhaps there is a choice that would be less costly to rebuild and that would result in the power & fuel consumption numbers that you're looking for.
FFT anyway.....
Seems like you're teetering on the brink of possibly being money ahead with another choice. Not that I think that you should have a V8 in there (I read that part & agree with the logic), just that perhaps there is a choice that would be less costly to rebuild and that would result in the power & fuel consumption numbers that you're looking for.
FFT anyway.....
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Engine rebuilding quandry...
I certainly have considered another engine, but it's not that this particular engine is expensive to rebuild- all engines are expensive to rebuild these days. I could save $500-$750 by going with a parts store remanufactured engine, but I know from hard experience where that leads. Soft valve seats, poor machining... it kills you in the long run and ends up costing much more than a quality local rebuild. The shop I'm looking at does a lot of race engines and has an excellent reputation around town, and you pay for it. The shop is extremely clean, and the equipment is top notch. They are only about $250 more than their competition, which don't have nearly the reputation.
I could also do a quick hone and rebuild the top end, which would save a lot in the short run. It wouldn't give me a warm fuzzy when I'm 1000 miles from home, though. The machine work is the big expense here, and putting the engine together would save me little money and eat up precious wrenching time.
In other news, I lost an auction for some Rover shocks on eBay. They were the same ones that British Pacific sells, so I bid like I wanted to win. Somebody wanted them more. $2.50 more. Oh well, I just ordered some ProComp shocks from JC Whitney (took a while to get the parts cross-referenced), which ended up costing less and are probably stronger shocks as well.
The front springs showed up today, so in addition to the engine I have yet another project for this weekend. Once I have the engine apart I can see where I need to go...
I certainly have considered another engine, but it's not that this particular engine is expensive to rebuild- all engines are expensive to rebuild these days. I could save $500-$750 by going with a parts store remanufactured engine, but I know from hard experience where that leads. Soft valve seats, poor machining... it kills you in the long run and ends up costing much more than a quality local rebuild. The shop I'm looking at does a lot of race engines and has an excellent reputation around town, and you pay for it. The shop is extremely clean, and the equipment is top notch. They are only about $250 more than their competition, which don't have nearly the reputation.
I could also do a quick hone and rebuild the top end, which would save a lot in the short run. It wouldn't give me a warm fuzzy when I'm 1000 miles from home, though. The machine work is the big expense here, and putting the engine together would save me little money and eat up precious wrenching time.
In other news, I lost an auction for some Rover shocks on eBay. They were the same ones that British Pacific sells, so I bid like I wanted to win. Somebody wanted them more. $2.50 more. Oh well, I just ordered some ProComp shocks from JC Whitney (took a while to get the parts cross-referenced), which ended up costing less and are probably stronger shocks as well.
The front springs showed up today, so in addition to the engine I have yet another project for this weekend. Once I have the engine apart I can see where I need to go...
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Surprise...
I pulled all of the external parts off, and there epoxied on the side of the block was a label:
So, it appears this engine has been rebuilt at some point over its life. I can't find any information on the company, so I will probably tear it down and check the machining and components. Hopefully this will save me a lof of machine work and the cylinders will only need to be honed. I'll probably go through the engine and replace the various components for piece of mind, and I'll certainly have it tanked and magnafluxed. We'll see how it goes...
The parts I pulled off seem in good condition, just coated with a thick layer of oil. Looks like this guy didn't know how to seal a valve cover. So, I have a bit of work to do at the parts washer.
I pulled all of the external parts off, and there epoxied on the side of the block was a label:
ASSEMBLED WITH PRIDE
HI-TECH ENGINES
SERIAL # H 9644
SPOKANE, WASHINGTON
HI-TECH ENGINES
SERIAL # H 9644
SPOKANE, WASHINGTON
So, it appears this engine has been rebuilt at some point over its life. I can't find any information on the company, so I will probably tear it down and check the machining and components. Hopefully this will save me a lof of machine work and the cylinders will only need to be honed. I'll probably go through the engine and replace the various components for piece of mind, and I'll certainly have it tanked and magnafluxed. We'll see how it goes...
The parts I pulled off seem in good condition, just coated with a thick layer of oil. Looks like this guy didn't know how to seal a valve cover. So, I have a bit of work to do at the parts washer.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
I'm horrible with the picture-making machine. All thumbs, and they're usually in front of the lens. Once I start making some progress that isn't on individual components, I'll start taking more pictures.
Today I planned on cleaning up a bunch of stuff in the parts washer, but the shop I was planning on using was closed for Columbus Day, which is tomorrow. So I bought a few cans of engine degreaser and some other chemicals and tied up a bay at a spray-it-yourself car wash that didn't have "no engine cleaning" signs posted. A few bucks later and the parts are much nicer, and easier to handle as well. There were obviously engine issues on each of the vehicles that donated the parts, as the protective layers of oil and grease were quite extensive. Too bad the oil couldn't have stayed where it would have done the most good. I'll let them dry for a couple days then start in with the wire wheel before priming and painting them. The engine gets a good look-over tomorrow, and I'll make my plans from there.
Today I planned on cleaning up a bunch of stuff in the parts washer, but the shop I was planning on using was closed for Columbus Day, which is tomorrow. So I bought a few cans of engine degreaser and some other chemicals and tied up a bay at a spray-it-yourself car wash that didn't have "no engine cleaning" signs posted. A few bucks later and the parts are much nicer, and easier to handle as well. There were obviously engine issues on each of the vehicles that donated the parts, as the protective layers of oil and grease were quite extensive. Too bad the oil couldn't have stayed where it would have done the most good. I'll let them dry for a couple days then start in with the wire wheel before priming and painting them. The engine gets a good look-over tomorrow, and I'll make my plans from there.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Today was a good day...
I woke up this morning, flipped on the shower, looked in the mirror and immediately felt wrong. Cold sweats, dizziness, diarrhea, nausea... yep, I was not in good shape. A quick call to work to inform them that I wasn't coming in and then I was back in bed for the next 6 hours. Probably food poisoning.
When I work up, I felt much better, so I stumbled down to the garage to salvage the day. The new springs took a while to get mounted, since I have to move piles of boxes just to tackle a different part of the job. I really envy Mercedesrover for his shop. Once the spring were on, I was tempted to mount the axle housing and start building it up, but there is still a bunch of cleaning and painting to do. Better to do it right the first time. Instead, I spent a couple hours mounting the bulkhead on the frame so I could use the frame as a jig when I weld in the new footwells. It only took a few whacks with a BFH to align everything, and I decided to not push my luck anymore. I got some decent work done in just a few hours and didn't hurt myself or make myself more sick.
Yesterday I dropped the engine off at the machine shop so they could take a look at it. I pulled the head off at home and realized that I am out of my league when it comes to engines and their internal workings. Too many chances of me making an expensive job even worse. The machine shop will give me a call sometime in the next week or so with a verdict and we'll go from there. They agreed that the engine was actually relatively inexpensive to rebuild- it's the cost of machining and labor that have skyrocketed up here. Like I said, we'll see how it goes...
I woke up this morning, flipped on the shower, looked in the mirror and immediately felt wrong. Cold sweats, dizziness, diarrhea, nausea... yep, I was not in good shape. A quick call to work to inform them that I wasn't coming in and then I was back in bed for the next 6 hours. Probably food poisoning.
When I work up, I felt much better, so I stumbled down to the garage to salvage the day. The new springs took a while to get mounted, since I have to move piles of boxes just to tackle a different part of the job. I really envy Mercedesrover for his shop. Once the spring were on, I was tempted to mount the axle housing and start building it up, but there is still a bunch of cleaning and painting to do. Better to do it right the first time. Instead, I spent a couple hours mounting the bulkhead on the frame so I could use the frame as a jig when I weld in the new footwells. It only took a few whacks with a BFH to align everything, and I decided to not push my luck anymore. I got some decent work done in just a few hours and didn't hurt myself or make myself more sick.
Yesterday I dropped the engine off at the machine shop so they could take a look at it. I pulled the head off at home and realized that I am out of my league when it comes to engines and their internal workings. Too many chances of me making an expensive job even worse. The machine shop will give me a call sometime in the next week or so with a verdict and we'll go from there. They agreed that the engine was actually relatively inexpensive to rebuild- it's the cost of machining and labor that have skyrocketed up here. Like I said, we'll see how it goes...
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Today I found out that BF Goodrich was essentially discontinuing the classic Mud Terrain for the new KM2 design, which is a more closed pattern like the Goodyear MTR. All reports so far are that they don't do as well in the mud up here. I'd rather not go with a dedicated mud tire like the Super Swamper TSL I run on my trail rig, and I have yet to find a tire that is a better blend of mud and street performance. I stopped by Costco on the way home from work and picked up 4 of the old 31x10.50R15s, which I wasn't planning on doing for a while. Now I have a set of 5, which better last me for awhile.
A week or so ago I lost an eBay auction on a 15" NAS wheel, and the seller happened to have another that he sold me for a good price. Now I have a spare rim, which I was starting to worry about. 16" rims would have been nice, but I got off a lot cheaper this way. Adding shipping onto a set of NATO steelies would have broken the bank.
I'll get them mounted all up (and get rid of those old, nasty tires in the process) and maybe the sight of those tires on the axle will spur me into further action.
A week or so ago I lost an eBay auction on a 15" NAS wheel, and the seller happened to have another that he sold me for a good price. Now I have a spare rim, which I was starting to worry about. 16" rims would have been nice, but I got off a lot cheaper this way. Adding shipping onto a set of NATO steelies would have broken the bank.
I'll get them mounted all up (and get rid of those old, nasty tires in the process) and maybe the sight of those tires on the axle will spur me into further action.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Well, I tried to clean up the old rims and paint them today, which was quite funny. The wife doesn't like me painting in the garage, since the fumes get sucked in the house, so I let the rims warm up inside and then took them outside to shoot and harden. Didn't work. The one I did looks awful, so I guess I'll be trying something else. Since they aren't in that great of shape paint-wise, I might have them sandblasted and then either powdercoated or just prime and shoot them myself. I certainly can't leave them like they are. I guess I'll wait and see when the spare rim shows up. If I can't find a good place to get them sandblasted, I'll just take them to the shop and clean them up the best I can with a wire wheel and pad, then shoot them with Extend and a good spraypaint. I'm kinda liking the blackwall look, even though they're supposed to be tan. Black doesn't show the brake dust as much.
I also need to paint some of the axle and brake parts before I stick them back on. I'm probably going to have the back end of my car loaded with stuff for the paint booth. I really would rather bolt on clean parts, even though they're going to get dirty eventually.
I also need to paint some of the axle and brake parts before I stick them back on. I'm probably going to have the back end of my car loaded with stuff for the paint booth. I really would rather bolt on clean parts, even though they're going to get dirty eventually.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Ouch...
I started adding up the remaining costs for rebuilding the axles and brakes, to include all of the consumable parts and brake lines. It came up to almost $900- just to get it back to a stock configuration. I paused a little bit. I've spent quite a bit already.
Now I have been offered the following for about the same price:
- Dana 44 off of a '67 CJ-5, with an offset diff. It has a Detroit, 4.88 gears, a Warn full-floater conversion (30 spline axles), and disc brakes (90% off the shelf, common US parts). There is a provision for an emergency brake.
- Dana 30 out of a '80 CJ-5. It has an Ox locker, 4.88 gears, and a Warn internal hub conversion.
Here's the kicker- they are off a vehicle that burned, so they will have to be completely rebuilt. I really don't want those particular lockers, so they will likely be sold for $300 or so. The gears will be changed to 4.10s, and I'll likely install the axle off of my CJ-5 on the Rover, because it has an ARB and has been relatively recently rebuilt. I could probably get some money for my Rover axles to offset the cost of the gears and install (I don't do axles or engine internals)- eBay Rover owners would love me. I would have to buy new wheels, but they are much cheaper and more readily available than Rover wheels, which I could sell to offset the expense somewhat.
I'm going to look at them this weekend, but I'm thinking if the housings are and the Warn parts are still alive, I can rebuild the axles for less than $1000 and have 4 wheel discs, 4.10 gears, and an ARB (or two if I pull my CJ-5's rear axle). My brake system would be built entirely from domestic parts, making it much cheaper to build and maintain.
Tough call.
I started adding up the remaining costs for rebuilding the axles and brakes, to include all of the consumable parts and brake lines. It came up to almost $900- just to get it back to a stock configuration. I paused a little bit. I've spent quite a bit already.
Now I have been offered the following for about the same price:
- Dana 44 off of a '67 CJ-5, with an offset diff. It has a Detroit, 4.88 gears, a Warn full-floater conversion (30 spline axles), and disc brakes (90% off the shelf, common US parts). There is a provision for an emergency brake.
- Dana 30 out of a '80 CJ-5. It has an Ox locker, 4.88 gears, and a Warn internal hub conversion.
Here's the kicker- they are off a vehicle that burned, so they will have to be completely rebuilt. I really don't want those particular lockers, so they will likely be sold for $300 or so. The gears will be changed to 4.10s, and I'll likely install the axle off of my CJ-5 on the Rover, because it has an ARB and has been relatively recently rebuilt. I could probably get some money for my Rover axles to offset the cost of the gears and install (I don't do axles or engine internals)- eBay Rover owners would love me. I would have to buy new wheels, but they are much cheaper and more readily available than Rover wheels, which I could sell to offset the expense somewhat.
I'm going to look at them this weekend, but I'm thinking if the housings are and the Warn parts are still alive, I can rebuild the axles for less than $1000 and have 4 wheel discs, 4.10 gears, and an ARB (or two if I pull my CJ-5's rear axle). My brake system would be built entirely from domestic parts, making it much cheaper to build and maintain.
Tough call.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
I made the call. After researching what it would take to rebuild the Dana 44 and Dana 30, with the various upgrades to them I would make, the Rover axles won out. I have too much invested already, and would recover too little if I tried to sell them. Warn has stopped making their full-floater kits for the Dana 44, and parts are starting to disappear. I found a supplier of the Model 18 emergency brake, which basically makes disc brakes the only real advantage the Dana 44/30 combo brought to the table. A good advantage, to be sure, but not one that justifies the extra cost to me at this time. If the vehicle was heavier, the engine larger, or the intent more "hardcore", the balance would have been shifted more.
There's something to be said for keeping something Rover under there. While the cost of disc brake conversions for the Rover mean that I will never install disc brakes on those axles, I'm good with that. Life (and by extension this project) is a series of compromises, and sometimes good enough is just that- good enough.
On another note, I picked up a couple bench seats for the back. My eBay feedback is growing by the day...
There's something to be said for keeping something Rover under there. While the cost of disc brake conversions for the Rover mean that I will never install disc brakes on those axles, I'm good with that. Life (and by extension this project) is a series of compromises, and sometimes good enough is just that- good enough.
On another note, I picked up a couple bench seats for the back. My eBay feedback is growing by the day...
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Today I spent researching Vehicle Speed Sensors, as I'm completely ignorant of fuel injection systems. It seems they are kinda important to getting decent gas mileage, and finding one that works with my Spicer 18 is going to be interesting. The speedo gear is going to be way off, given that the transfercase was originally on a Scout that had (I believe) 4.27 gears in the axles and 28" tires. Since I'm going to be running 31" tires and 3.54 gears, maybe an electric Speedo that I can calibrate will be the best choice. The guys at Novak said that the ECM doesn't really care as long as the speed sensed by the VSS is somewhere in the ballpark, so hopefully I won't have to change out the speedo gear.
I also have to ship the bellhousing back to Novak because they forgot to machine the CPS hole in there last time I sent it to them. I could cut it myself, but since I have time to spare while the engine is getting torn down and rebuilt, I'd rather have them do it. It's all on their dime anyway...
I also have to ship the bellhousing back to Novak because they forgot to machine the CPS hole in there last time I sent it to them. I could cut it myself, but since I have time to spare while the engine is getting torn down and rebuilt, I'd rather have them do it. It's all on their dime anyway...