The old reseating a tire bead with lighter fluid trick. Bad idea?

[Metcalf]

OK so what is the right way to set a bead with flammables?

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While I can't say its the best way to seat a tire, I will admit that I have done it more than my fair share of times while working at a tire shop and in my personal travels. My best recommendation is to use it as a last resort, not your primary means of bead seating.

So, how to do it 'properly'

-Take the tire off the vehicle and lay it on the ground. 99.9% of the time I won't do it on the vehicle if at all possible. This technique is generally only used when both beads are off. If one bead is still on you should be able to seat the other bead easily if you have any OBA.

-Clean both bead surfaces and tire beads. It sucks to re-seat the tire on the rim to find you have leaks in the bead area.

-I will always try and seat the bead other ways first. A 5-gallon bucket is one of the best tools in my opinion. Making a bucket simulator out of a section of tree works just about as well. You can set the bucket in the rim and push the tire down, stand on it, or jump on it to get the bottom bead to start seating. Most tires will start seating on one side. If you can't get the one bead to hold the weight of the tire after you flip the tire/wheel over on the bucket your probably going to need some spray flammable assistance.

-So, at this point you can't get either bead to stick on the rim. Perhaps you can get one to stick but when you try for the second bead the first slides off. This is usually common on wide rims. 35x12.5x15's on 15x10" rims where my most common problem back in the day.

-I always try and use starting fluid for seating beads. That seems to work best for me.

-Take the tire off the magic bucket or bucket simulator and set it on flat ground. A smooth and hard surface seems to work best. A tarp under the tire will help keep dirt, rocks, bunnies, sticks, leaves, and grass from sticking in the beads.

-Connect your air supply line. While a LOT of exploding flammable fun fluid might seat your bead, your never going to get more than a few PSI trapped in the tire. You basically NEED compressed air to make this work. Ideally you also need a way to connect the air supply to the rim without holding the dang air chuck on the tire. It's also REALLY nice to have a valve in the air supply line at a safe distance away to turn on the air at the right moment. You can improvise the on-off air valve by having a spare hand connect the hose at the proper time, folding the hose over having someone holding it, or folding the hose over and standing on it if your trying to do this all solo while your friends stare at the crazy guy playing with fire.

-Take your starting fluid in one hand and your lighter in the other. Having a friend that is a pyro will help at this point, give him the lighter Start by only spraying one short burst into the space between the rim and tire bead, then run a wet strip off to the edge of the tire. Light it at the end of this strip at the tread edge. Wear eye protection and your fireproof undies. Don't blame me if you loose an eyebrow.

-Once lighted the tire will 'pop' and right at that point you need to be feeding air into the tire. You do NOT want the compressed air to be flowing all the time. This can displace the chemicals in the tire, create huge fireballs in your face, and all sorts of other issues. Right after the pop, hit the air. I use ether and it doesn't really stick around too long like WD40, paint, or other products.....

-If the beads grab and seat your golden. Air the tire up to full pressure and then back down to your trail pressure to ensure that the beads are fully seated.

-If it won't seat, try more starting fluid. I start with one squirt and will progress from there. Spray around the tire and wheel opening to add more, don't just add more in one spot. Don't forget the wet tail off the sidewall towards the tread. As you add more volume of flammable explosive chemicals you are going to want as much distance as possible from the tire! Add too much and you CAN destroy the tire and/or blow it off the bead completely.

*Attach full disclaimer at this point so I don't get blamed for people being stupid*

 

[I Leak Oil]

And that's really the meat of it and why you hear stories of people being hurt. More is not always better. If it doesn't seat with a little fluid you can always try again with a little more.

You can't go back in time to fix it if you start with too much...

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: heh Heh, using the PBS and OBA, all ya gotta do is clean the beads and-Presto--inflate !

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[off-roader]

Here's a scenario where we had to use this method. In the interest of learning wondering what else we could have done different in this situation (aside from going back in time to avoid it in the first place)...
1) The driver had the wrong size spare (had a 5 lug spare but needed an 8 lug rim). No other spare's were available. Everyone in our party had a different lug pattern (5 & 6 lug rigs).
2) The tire was mounted on a rim that was too wide. Several of us attended Martin's clinic on this trip and we couldn't just seat like we were taught.
- We tried a Powertank CO2 system and it wouldn't reseat the bead due to the tire/rim combo.
- We tried using straps but only had 1' wide straps and no 2' wide ones.
- We tried using several different air compressors (unfortunately we didn't have a super high volume/cfm unit).

The rig was in a precarious position and he needed the tire aired up to him get to a safe locale.

We first secured his rig, then after several failed attempts used starter fluid to reseat his bead.

 

[emmodg]

1- Get the tire to a good "clear" area. It doesn't have to be perfectly flat, it doesn't have to be all sand or dirt. Use common sense...

2- Clean the tire bead(s) and rim with a GLOVED hand

3- Remove the valve core. (You don't have to do this but it allows more oxygen for combustion. I've also seen a valve core or 2 shot out of the stem from over-zealous use of either.)

4- Get your starter fluid and "flame maker" handy. Stand on tire giving a short little "squirt" of either at around the 12, 3, 6, and 9-o'clock positions. (You're standing on the tire to open up a gap at those positions to get your fluid IN the rim/tire cavity.)

5- Make yourself a "wick" by squirting a strip of fluid from your last "squirt", to tire surface, to ground if you like. Step back and light her'up! (When it's hot out the starter fluid will evaporate quickly so you have to be ready with flame or you'll waste fluid and have to do it again. In colder climate you have a bit more time but then have to deal with slower ignition because you lose the fluid evaporation needed for combustion.)

6- Now. One of two things will happen at step 5. Combustion will happen and you'll hear a nice big "POP", the tire is seated and friends will think you're magic OR the tire and will just sit there burning some as the the evaporated fluid and flame isn't getting enough oxygen for good combustion. DON'T sit and watch it burn. Your tire wont burn up but you'll have wasted fluid, flame, and time which are precious commodities when your out in the middle of nowhere with only 3 useable tires on your truck! Do yourself and the tire a favor and quickly stomp on the top of the tire if it's just laying there burning. Stomping opens up a gap in the tire/rim cavity for a split second allowing a burst of oxygen to complete the combustion necessary to seat the tire bead. DON'T kick the tire - why would want to kick a burning tire towards someone or something? That, and it does nothing to allow that burst of oxygen in.

At our school we have taught this to every civilian and military class we've had. I've had everyone from 60 year old men to SEALs do it. In the 8 years I've taught it (been doing it longer than that) I have NEVER seen any one of my students even close to hurt. Like anything else - use your head. It's effective and it's fast and it's a skill that's damn good to know!

(I'm not exactly sure why you would ever need to get your air chuck immediately on the valve stem right after combustion or "Pop". You do need air to fill your tire but you have all day after the bead is set to do that if you want. I'm not sure what Metcalf is getting at here. You DO NOT need compressed air to help the combustion part of this exercise. You DO need air to fill your tire when done though.)

 

[grizzlyj]

I've only used ether. Off the truck too! I can't get my tyres to flex with the biggest ratchet I can find, and the bicycle tube + washing liquid I just can't get to seal


The difference between hot and cold ambient makes a big difference and makes guaging the perfect squirt quite hard.


Two other things I'd add;


You know the little straw you get with the likes of WD-40? Attach that to the ether nozzle (or swap nozzles) cos that allows you to get more stuff into the tyre rather than just firing it at the wheel/tyre gap.


I would think that first unsucessful pop will eat most of the oxygen up. So each following fail will need more and more ether, frying your nerves each time. Stopping to reassess is well worth it, and while checking for lost eyebrows put more air (and so O2) in from your airline.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

(I'm not exactly sure why you would ever need to get your air chuck immediately on the valve stem right after combustion or "Pop". You do need air to fill your tire but you have all day after the bead is set to do that if you want. I'm not sure what Metcalf is getting at here. You DO NOT need compressed air to help the combustion part of this exercise. You DO need air to fill your tire when done though.)

I have seen the tires compress after the 'pop' as the ether finishes burning up the O2. This can cause the tire to unseat itself if air isn't applied fast.

You're correct in that you don't need compressed air for the combustion part, but you do need it ASAP after the 'Pop'

 

[emmodg]

I have seen the tires compress after the 'pop' as the ether finishes burning up the O2. This can cause the tire to unseat itself if air isn't applied fast.

You're correct in that you don't need compressed air for the combustion part, but you do need it ASAP after the 'Pop'

I've never seen one come "un-beaded" from the vacuum created by the cooling combustion. I guess people have had some weird circumstances with this procedure which really does amaze me but I've done 37", 33", 31", and tractor tires and I've never had to introduce air "ASAP" after the "pop".

 

[grizzlyj]

Mine come off quickly if I'm not speedy in getting the air line on.

Maybe it depends on the tyre width versus wheel width? My tyres and rims are as supplied by Merc, but when unseated the tyre is a fair way off the rim, maybe also why a strap, a bit of water and wiggling with an airline in place will never work for me (unless you borrow a huge compressor, then I know it works )

If the tyre only needs a little encouragement to stay close to the rim then maybe it'll be easy and you have time, if the tyre wants to move away you have to be quick?

The lower film clip linked to on this page is just about the first time I did it. Once its popped I've got the airline on quickly, but being distracted for a moment talking to the camera, the airline unseated and the tyre fell off again But I suppose thats not the same as continued burning sucking it off?

Forest Fruits silicone spray is used, I'm not sure why! Using silicone since then hasn't burnt well enough at all, so ether all the way!

http://www.moglet.co.uk/page109.html

 

[I Leak Oil]

I can't see it being sucked off the bead if the valve core is removed.

Emmodg....How dare you bring actual experience into this conversation!eepwall:

 

[Metcalf]

I have always had it work best when I could introduce air right after the 'pop'. I wasn't trying to infer that you needed it for combustion, just timing...

I start SMALL on the starter fluid. I don't think you need 'extra' to fully pop the bead on the rim....only enough to get it to grab with the introduction of compressed air at the right time.
Introducing air before you light it tends to get the eyebrows crispy....or you just displace the chemicals and don't get anything to happen.

My remarks ARE experience based, Everything from ATV tires to skidder tires while working for a tire shop in my younger dumber years. Sometimes you just HAVE to find a way to make something work. I don't teach classes but have used the technique more than I would like over the last 15 or so years.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Righton, but I owned a Goodyear tire shop for 10 years in the Sierras and with both truck and 4x4 tires/snow/rain/mud (littlebit) all we ever used was the PBE and OBA-

That worked for the lost of both beads and only rarely ever took the tire off the vehicle-

Ya just play with the cards you're delt--

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[Metcalf]

Sometimes you just have to use what you got......

Your talking about one of these correct?

http://www.amazon.com/Ken-Tool-31433-Pneumatic-Bead-Expander/dp/B000J1Y31W

Been there, done that, doesn't always work for me. Some tires like the old Swamper SX steel belted bias just where too stiff to get much bead movement.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Yup, thats it, Goodyear gave us two, one for smaller passenger/truck tires and one for new radial 18 wheeler tires-

Sometimes you just have to use what you got......

Your talking about one of these correct?

http://www.amazon.com/Ken-Tool-31433-Pneumatic-Bead-Expander/dp/B000J1Y31W

Been there, done that, doesn't always work for me. Some tires like the old Swamper SX steel belted bias just where too stiff to get much bead movement.

Like I said--I've never been unable to useit--then/now, course I'm not talking about somebodys IMPROPER WIDE rims for a narrow tire--that could be a problem-

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[emmodg]

I certainly don't doubt your experience but like I said - introduction of air "right after" or the next day for that matter has no bearing on whether the ether "trick" works or doesn't. Combustion of ether is volatile and produces tremendous pressure in an instant - more pressure than a large 2-stage shop compressor could produce. With that said I can't ever imagine the tire bead "de-seating" after combustion. I've just never sen that happen.

Have you seen people introduce air BEFORE they light the ether? I can't imagine what the thought there would be. If the tire actually accepts air why would one NEED to re-seat the bead?

I have always had it work best when I could introduce air right after the 'pop'. I wasn't trying to infer that you needed it for combustion, just timing...

I start SMALL on the starter fluid. I don't think you need 'extra' to fully pop the bead on the rim....only enough to get it to grab with the introduction of compressed air at the right time.
Introducing air before you light it tends to get the eyebrows crispy....or you just displace the chemicals and don't get anything to happen.

My remarks ARE experience based, Everything from ATV tires to skidder tires while working for a tire shop in my younger dumber years. Sometimes you just HAVE to find a way to make something work. I don't teach classes but have used the technique more than I would like over the last 15 or so years.