the ultimate Pan-American Expedition vehicle

[jlit]

we will be departing from Alaska 2nd week of July, so time is starting to really run short. Also, big sorry for misspelling colombia, I realized that yesterday.

We've been heavily considering 2 land cruisers, but still debating between that or 1 larger vehicle. If we do take another vehicle, it means twice the costs of gas and repairs, and another person. It does give us safety in redundancy however, and I would assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that a pair is less likely to encounter a stick up. Alternatively, a unimog looks like it could be big, burly, and from what I hear, reliable. Unfortunately though, I can't find a good mog setup with seating for 5-6, and ample room in the back for storage, for any reasonable price. I looked into unicat, a company that outfits Amerigo International expedition vehicles, and a new setup (Though it would be the ultimate) would run about $700,000. Our goal with this whole mission is to raise awareness and build schools and orphanages, and 700,000 is more than I could justify, much less find sponsors to justify it as well.

Additionally, I'm also concerned something like that would gather too much attention. Some places we're going through, colombia for example, a big burly vehicle with a lot of money in camera and computer equipment, we've heard, could be very appealing to cartels.

If looking to blend in, I've heard busses are very popular down there. Perhaps a short 14 seat bus with the seats removed and a crappy paint job would help keep us under the radar a little more. Plus, when ******* hit's the fan, or when it's too sketchy to sleep outside (parts of Colombia, El Salvador, & Mexico) we could at least all be inside. Plus all our storage could be inside, instead of roof racks that call attention and aren't the most secure/weather proof.

What do you guys think? By the way, thanks.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

The bus idea sounds like a winner.... what about 4wd? My only concern about that is it isnt uncommon for when the "******** hits the fan" the "bad guys" might stop the bus and you'll have a cluster fornication to deal with.

Maybe do some "Punisher" type armor over thr front windows and a couple "safe spots" within the bus incase of fire...

But if you are that concerned about the safety... dont go on the trip. :26_7_2:

we will be departing from Alaska 2nd week of July, so time is starting to really run short. Also, big sorry for misspelling colombia, I realized that yesterday.

We've been heavily considering 2 land cruisers, but still debating between that or 1 larger vehicle. If we do take another vehicle, it means twice the costs of gas and repairs, and another person. It does give us safety in redundancy however, and I would assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that a pair is less likely to encounter a stick up. Alternatively, a unimog looks like it could be big, burly, and from what I hear, reliable. Unfortunately though, I can't find a good mog setup with seating for 5-6, and ample room in the back for storage, for any reasonable price. I looked into unicat, a company that outfits Amerigo International expedition vehicles, and a new setup (Though it would be the ultimate) would run about $700,000. Our goal with this whole mission is to raise awareness and build schools and orphanages, and 700,000 is more than I could justify, much less find sponsors to justify it as well.

Additionally, I'm also concerned something like that would gather too much attention. Some places we're going through, colombia for example, a big burly vehicle with a lot of money in camera and computer equipment, we've heard, could be very appealing to cartels.

If looking to blend in, I've heard busses are very popular down there. Perhaps a short 14 seat bus with the seats removed and a crappy paint job would help keep us under the radar a little more. Plus, when ******* hit's the fan, or when it's too sketchy to sleep outside (parts of Colombia, El Salvador, & Mexico) we could at least all be inside. Plus all our storage could be inside, instead of roof racks that call attention and aren't the most secure/weather proof.

What do you guys think? By the way, thanks.

 

[jlit]

Ok, we're thinking pretty affirmatively of a compromise between all of the above. We're thinking of going with 2 vehicles for safety: 2 toyota 08 tundras, crew cab, short bed(because you can't get a longer bed with the crew cab), camper shell, and just fixing them up a little to work, ie, roof rack, bumpers, lifts, winches, aquatic setup for the rainy season, and wheels. What do you guys think?

 

[mauricio_28]

Have you given some thought to the performance and fuel consumption of those already thirsty, normally aspirated gas/petrol engines when you're cruising at 4,000masl? I hate to see what type of mileage you get on a fully loaded Tundra climbing out of La Paz unto the Altiplano. Yikes!

In my mind, THE smaller, modern vehicle for this type of expedition is Toyota's newest 3.0L TDI HiLux. Regrettably, the closest it gets to the U.S. is Guatemala.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Have you given some thought to the performance and fuel consumption of those already thirsty, normally aspirated gas/petrol engines when you're cruising at 4,000masl? I hate to see what type of mileage you get on a fully loaded Tundra climbing out of La Paz unto the Altiplano. Yikes!

In my mind, THE smaller, modern vehicle for this type of expedition is Toyota's newest 3.0L TDI HiLux. Regrettably, the closest it gets to the U.S. is Guatemala.

Going to Guatemala to get a HiLux might be worth it. Savings in the long run. Mauricio, do you know about how much they are for Jlit's consideration.

Jlit- There would be no efficiency going with the Tundra. You might consider going to a Central American country, buying a HiLux or Prado (LandCruiser) and outfitting it with the correct ARB gear and going for it. I just happen to spot a convoy of '06 Prados in Costa Rica (in '06). They were crossing a river off the side of the road... so I stopped and asked them what they were up to. It was Toyota folks doing a test run in the jungles and stuff...

A 4x4 toyota Hi-Ace might be interesting too...

Mauricio is right about the diesel engines. Not only will you get better fuel mileage, in many of the countries, diesel is much cheaper. Oh and apparently they handle those deep watercrossing better.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=3EgFTeRRP5w

Have you guys considered doing the trip in reverse? Fly to Argentina, buy and rig your vehicle there and then go North?

 

[Lynn]

Since it sounds like you need the vehicles for 'bad road' conditions, not 'off road' conditions, have you considered a Mercedes-based Sprinter van? Lots of room, 20mpg diesel, good parts support network (from what I understand),...

 

[BruceNP]

Shipping costs for your secondary transportation (non-bicycle) around the Gap has to be considered in your budget. Since there are no ferry's in that region, if you end up with two vehicles you are just doubling your problem.

A Fuso FG140 4x4 with a standard box on the back and single bunk beds attached to the walls (with the rest as storage) may be the way to go. Isuzu's are found everywhere and are very reliable. The new Hino's look good for this purpose too. The Nissan UD can be ordered in 4WD.

1. No tents to set up unless the weather is nice.
2. Diesel so you'll get decent mileage
3. Single vehicle, so you'll get even better mileage
4. Kinda of a stealth unit. Looks like any other truck so not as noticeable.
5. Can seat 3 in the cab (but a bit cramped).
6. Not too expensive and comes with a 175,000 mile warrantee
7. Lots of buyers for when you are done with it.
8. Many decent units available used, but reliable.
9. Tons of inside storage.
10. Could retrofit water, toilet and cooking into the back area.
11. Room for the bikes inside.
12. Can secure the back box and leave the cab empty for shipping.

Just thinking.

 

[Fishenough]

Someone mentioned a Toyota HiAce, which is a great idea IMO; common enough to blend, good diesel mileage for interior volume, part time 4x4, and parts availability. Since your traveling mostly out of your own country couldn't you purchase a 15 year old Japanese import if you could manage insurance? JDM's are already imported to the US as offroad only vehicles, would that work as long as you could get coverage.

Great dealer in Whitehorse - http://www.outbackimports.ca/hiace_vans.html

What can I say, I'm a van guy and I'm OK with that. Now.

 

[mauricio_28]

I've said it before. I'll say it again. You want to go in a turbo diesel engine. South America is high. Some of the highest vehicular roads in the world are there. For example, La Paz, Bolivia sits in a "depression" at 3,700 masl. To get out, you need to climb out to 4,200 masl. A gas/petrol engine will be a like a thirsty dog on a hot summer day. It's power will decrease and fuel consumption increase. A diesel engine, aided by a turbo and intercooler, will remain a beast at altitude.

I had relatives check the price of a HiLux a while ago in Guatemala. I think the 4WD 3.0L TDI model goes for US$35k.

 

[BruceNP]

Rethink the Wolfhounds.

At a minimum, the vaccinations required will possibly include:
Rabies, Canine Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, Parvovirus vaccine, Canine Adenovirus Type2, Bordetella Bornchiseptia Vaccine (Kennel Cough)

In some areas south of the border, people consider dogs as pest, though you will find more as pets than you used to. There is a common fear of rabies and dog bites. Semi-wild street dogs can be a big problem in some areas. Don't be surprised if people avoid you, which defeats a lot of the reason for going. A Wolfhound can be pretty scary. If you're that nervous about security, stay at home.

All that being said, you will probably increase your security having a dog along. Throw a sign on the truck "Pero Bravo" (Dangerous Dog) and most people will leave you alone. Many National Parks will not permit animals, so a bunch of the prettiest locations and best camping sites will be off of your available list. You can probably plan on anything from 10 minutes to an additional hour at each border crossing because you have an animal (or two) along.

Down in South America, you'll find that the same paperwork you see throughout Central America:

The dogs must be accompanied by a health certificate issued by a licensed veterinarian, and endorsed by a Veterinary Services (VS) veterinarian.

The dog has to carry the standard statement was examined and found to be healthy and free of any clinical signs of infectious disease. In general this examination should be conducted within 2 weeks of the departure date.

The dog must be Vaccinated against rabies.

They need vaccination for distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis, parvovirus and parainfluenza virus.

You will need a Federal APHIS FORM 7001 (AUG 94), U.S. Interstate and International Certificate for Small Animals completed on each animal (about 70-80 $)

The accompanying health certificate should be made out at least in duplicate and, to ease border crossings, it have a copy translated into spanish.

The health certificate does NOT need to be signed by a Notary Public

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You will probably get hit up for a bribe at a bunch of the border crossings because of the inconvenience issue and because you are an easy mark (you can't abandon the dogs). You'll just have to be very patient, smile alot and LEARN SPANISH before you leave.

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Talk to your vet before you leave about getting some preventive medications for the dogs. Just like you can easily pick up a bunch of very bad diseases from drinking the local water, so can the dogs ... and they can't read the warnings, so expect health issues to arise. You will have to take them on walks and let them get some exercise, so it's only a matter of time before they will acquire some nasty bug. Be prepared or else, be prepared to lose them.

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Revised: Looking at your original posts, I see that you are planning on taking about 30 months for the trip. This is going to give you a number of problems on border entries. Your exams/paperwork isn't good for that long. You;ll need re-vaccinations, new certificates of health, periodic internal and external parasite treatment (Chile). Chile requires that the exam be within 15 days of traveling, so, you'll have to get it re-done in Peru while you are passing thru, etc, etc, etc ..... You have a TON of research ahead of you and a bunch of vets to line up in each country, just in case.

 

[upcruiser]

Besides the mentioned issues about the Tundra's economy, the other consideration I'd take into account is parts availability/serviceability in Central and South America. I spend time in Chile every summer and I've yet to see a Tundra in my travels. I've seen 1/2 and 3/4 ton Chevy's and 1/2 ton Ford's but yet to see Tundras. Being that you guys are likely going to be relying on shops for service along the way, picking a rig that can be serviced down there is huge. A pair of diesel Hiluxes would be at the top of my list personally for that type of trip. They are really common and wouldn't stick out much at all yet still be tough as nails and allow you to get off the beaten path when needed.

 

[canucksafari]

The other thing about taking dos with you is that mange is throughout the domestic dog population in Latin America. It will be fairly easy for your dogs to be infected. Seriously, I don't know why you think you need all this protection. The dogs will soon become more of a problem than a help. In most places in Latin America - especially the country side - dogs are not pets but work beasts. People will treat them like any other beast. If someone is going to shoot you they will also shoot your dogs. As for the armour, like I posted on MUD and armoured vehicle to the police and military spells narco. It will slow you down and cause you more grief. If someone wants to stop you, an armoured vehicle isn't goin to help.

Having lead groups in Mexico and South America I can tell you that your best protection is the space between your ears. If you just have to drive through an active Shining Path area in Peru, then you can expect the Shining Path to take you out. If you are flashing all your cool toys in front of the poor locals, then expect word to get around and for the local gang to steal your toys. You want to blend in as much as possible or have a military escort all the way.

 

[charlieaarons]

the vehicle needs to be armored.

Are you serious?

Look into a Cougar 4X4 or 6X6 (the 6X6 has a gvw of 52000 lb). Even so the tires aren't bulletproof.
If you are serious about the armor, stay home or learn Spanish.

Charlie

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

3votes Hi-Lux. They are dang common down there. They use them for everything. Tow trucks, fire trucks, ambulances... police cars... Get a blue or white one.

 

[BruceNP]

Hello all,

My name is jeff, and 4 associates and I are putting together an expedition from the top of Alaska to the southernmost tip of Argentina. 2 guys will be riding bicycles, I will be filming a tv show, 2 others will be conducting research, and together we will be filming 3 documentaries along the way about the needs of humanity and the environment in Latin and South America. I'm here because we need the perfect expedition vehicle.

We need ample space for 3-4 people, film equipment, expedition gear, bikes, batteries, and 2 irish wolfhounds. As many of you know, the roads through South America will require rugged 4x4 capabilities. In addition, with the threat of armed radicals, theives, and corrupt policia, the vehicle needs to be armored.

Any advice and assistance is most appreciated. Thank you.

1. Lay out the space you will need for storage of your equipment.
2. Identify what expedition gear you are going to carry.
3. Leave the dogs at home. If you do have a lengthy stay in any city during your trip, you'll have to find a kennel to board them.
4. Consider your security requirement. Just being obviously NOT RICH gringo's is probably all you need.
5. Consider your bad weather camping requirements (keeping gear dry, etc).
6. Forget about the "rugged" 4x4 ... if you are going to stay on the roads, you'll only use that occasionally the entire trip. Waste of money in all probability. Trade it for some extra ground clearance and a couple of spare tires. Learn to do simple maintenance. Take a class at the local Community College with the money you saved.
7. There are fewer armed radicals in most places you are headed than in NYC, Philly and Washington ... get real. You can't drive across the Darien Gap anyway so you will have to ship around it. Be prepared to have a complete change of plans. It's not real bright on the bike riders to drag their gear through the Darien. The Colombian side is all swamp and marshlands, the Panama side is all mountainous and a rain forest. On the south side of the Gap, you'll find that the region is controlled by the FARC. More on that later.
8. If someone asks for a bribe, insist on a receipt ... check out the proper technique over on HUBB.
9. If you armor anything, you'll probably get about 2mpg and run out of money before you clear the Canadian border.

People ride alone on motorcycles from the Prudoe Bay to the tip of Argentina, camping all the way, frequently alone and occasional female. It's not what you think according to your post. You need to get a couple good books on travel before you offend everyone where you are headed.

If you want a potentially violent adventure with an armored vehicle, might I suggest that you route via Afghanistan, Washington DC (after dark), Pakistan, Iran and Iraq, with stops in Syria, Philadelphia, Israel, Sudan, South Boston, Ethiopia, Libya, Johannesburg SA, Morrocco and New York City.

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Concerning the FARC, and hostages taken since 2007

A civilian hostage, Fernando Araújo, later named Minister of Foreign Relations and formerly Development Minister, escaped his captors on December 31, 2006. Araújo had to walk through the jungle for five days before being found by troops in the hamlet of San Agustin, 350 miles (560 km) north of Bogotá. He was kidnapped on December 5, 2000 while exercising in the Caribbean coastal city of Cartagena. He was reunited with his family on January 5, 2007.

Another captive, Jhon Frank Pinchao a low ranking police officer, escaped his captors on April 28, 2007 after nine years in captivity. He was reunited with his family on May 15, 2007.

On January 10, 2008, former vice presidential candidate Clara Rojas and former congresswoman Consuelo Gonzalez were freed after six years in captivity.

On January 31, 2008, the FARC announced that they would release civilian hostages Luis Eladio Perez Bonilla, Gloria Polanco, and Orlando Beltran Cuellar to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez as a humanitarian gesture. All of them were kidnapped in 2001.

On February 27, 2008, the three hostages and Jorge Eduardo Gechem Turbay (who was added to the list due to his poor health) were released by FARC. With the authorization of the Colombian government and the participation of the International Red Cross, a Venezuelan helicopter transported them to Caracas from San Jose del Guaviare.

44 political captives are currently being held by the FARC.

The FARC will take hostages for non-political reasons in order to collect ransom money. The route near the Darien in the north is a drug smuggling route, so you might be inviting un-necessary risk. Riding through their back-yard, so to speak, might not be the smartest thing.

Other than that, I think the rest of the trip will be great. I'd just ship the vehicle (and bikes AND riders) around the gap.\

Revised Loren and Patrica Upton have more experience in the Darien than any other gringos. They used to sell a guidebook to the Darien, but they haven't been back through there in nearly a decade because of the political danger. Their website is outbackofbeyond.com ... They have a really good writeup of crossing the Darien on a Rokon (2WD motorcycle). It's a great read, BUT now, posted on their website is the following notice.

Darien Gap Update - March 2008

In December we were contacted by a traveler that was attempting to hike the Darien Gap. He stated that the Panamanian police were NOT allowing any gringos to travel beyond either Yaviza or El Real.