Thinking about a Pause

[mvbeggs]

MV, I don't know exactly what that Imperial statement means either. But here is what I do know:

The frames were always advertised on their website as being made of 1/4" wall tubing, .250". However, it turns out they are 11 gauge, which is .123" or just under 1/8". I'm not saying that thickness is wrong, but the frames are weak and not made as advertised. So it seems obvious that the tubing thickness is wrong. A number of us had flexing that made the storage box rub on the front of the body, damaging it. My friend had his frame break at the suspension mount and wreck a swingarm. Then his frame cracked near the front, where the rails turn to become the tongue. While inspecting it we discovered the body mounting bolts were pulled out of the frame on the drivers side front and the body was just sitting on the frame there, but not attached. The frame cracked at a bad weld, my friend had a welder reinforce it.....

I think the "Our customers have spoken, and we’ve listened… " could possible refer to cases like the above.

Meanwhile, Isaac from Imperial said flexing is normal ..

I agree that flexing is normal, to a degree- but not to the point of damage. Deflections, as a design criteria, are as important as the strength in almost all structural designs.

....I designed a stiffener for my frame...

I'd be interested in seeing what you came up with. I would think Imperial might be interested as well.

...I hope Imperial gets the bugs worked out, steps up their quality and is successful. And I don't know how much they have improved since they came out. I am always interested in the ethos of companies, where and how they fall short....

I'm also not sure what improvements have been made since your purchase.
Agree with the "ethos of companies". IMHO, how a company reacts to issues and customer concerns separates the mediocre from the great.

Imperial is a classic case of being overworked, one person in control of the whole show and making some obviously bad decisions. I think it was a sincere attempt that had the potential to be the best in America while made in America. And the trailers can still be great if Imperial can muster the resources and energy to make them right.

Sound engineering, on the front end, is always the cheaper route. Hopefully Imperial will see the light, get some professional engineering, and make the necessary adjustments. I haven't seen anything that would be major a change/expense moving forward.

Another interesting story with a much bigger crash is Black Series. They managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of success. And it was almost all driven by one bad apple. Their obvious mistakes were legendary and completely unnecessary. I just shook my head in wonderment as they hammered themselves into irrelevance.

Haven't heard that story about BlackSeries- but it sounds interesting. I think many of their issues seemed to surface during COVID.

These stories are better suited to campfire talk than here, but I did want to fill in the blanks just a bit on Imperial. Everyone should be inspecting their frames periodically.

Looking forward to that campfire talk.

Raspy, thanks for filling in the blanks. I think it's important to share real work experience(s) with those looking to make these $75k-$100k trailer purchases. No one likes surprises after spending those kinds of $'s. Sharing experiences, also keeps manufactures honest. It becomes much more difficult for manufactures/dealers to treat a customer's issue like a "one off" issue when other people are obviously experiencing similar issues. These forums are great resources.

Hopefully these discussions spur probing questions from customers- that filter up to manufactures and encourage improvements in their products. If so, we all win- manufactures included.

Unresolved issues also make room for new manufactures, (i.e. Pause/Reboot) to fill the gaps.

 

[Raspy]

Imperial downplayed the frame breaking by blaming it on the owner. When confronted with the second break, they recommended an "unnecessary" fix that was just a simple "unneeded" bandaid. My analysis of the frame revealed poor welding, too much flexing (of course, all frames flex, but that is not the point. Flexing to the point of damage or failure is the point) and a poorly designed truss that added strength where not needed and none where is was needed. Proof of my analysis is the breaking and flexing. My added stiffener is a simple upgrade I would have done to mine, but I traded it instead of fixing that one issue while leaving others to be resolved. I don't really want to recommend others do the modifications that I propose on such a critical component. But just to share, it was a heavy duty stiffener welded to the bottom of the frame rail/tongue that tied into the existing truss. I'm happy to just point out the weakness, where it is and why it is. As soon as I recommend a fix, that I was mainly interested in for my own trailer, there will be a flood of comments that likely miss the point or simply claim "I've never had a problem" as though no fix is needed. So I'm content to suggest everyone watch out for the cracks in a breaking frame and damage from the storage box hitting the body. I have a lot of information on the subjects I mention here, but am reluctant to go very far with sharing. If a mechanical engineer or professional welder is available, have them take a look. I just want to recommend caution and point to where to look. Sometimes I'll share a company's response to the issues as part of my point. But I never want to be in any way inaccurate, or inflammatory. I'll share opinion as opinion, but not as fact. I'll share facts as facts, but not as opinion. As I mentioned earlier, I am fascinated with mistakes companies make that hurt themselves. And the problems can often be easily identified. They are often mistakes that lots of companies have been making for a long time. These can be management or engineering mistakes. I make recommendations concerning those mistakes and how they can affect others. "Others" can be end users or distributors. I have no ax to grind as I am not affiliated with them, but I am sympathetic. The two categories I focus on are the ethos and the engineering. Particularly, how the ethos or short term interests overlay engineering decisions and the outcome of those decisions. This is the primary reason failures, or poor quality, or surprise mistakes happen. It is all about shortcuts and the end result of those shortcuts. Shortcuts are driven by a lack of knowledge, financial pressures, impatience, or a combination of these factors. Then, the next category arrives, which is the response to those problems. This is a very telling part of the company's management and stability, stability both financially and emotionally. Emotional responses can include cultural traditions, management intentions, or habitual responses while under duress. I'll reach in, grab those decisions, and flip them up for all to see. This leads to improvements, or at least awareness by buyers. Or not. It can also lead to an accelerating downward spiral that companies can get trapped in.

If you pour all of this into one big pot and stir it up, you can pour out a path filled with pitfalls. I've negotiated that path with various trailers for years. My comments are descriptions of those pitfalls, and possibly, how to jump over them. My stories are very PG rated with the gory details left out. My intention is to alert others, while following fun stories of seemingly deliberate failure, so they can go into this game with eyes wide open. It's not to stir up trouble or start arguments. And hopefully, even if a bit painfully, it will encourage companies to do better, while offering a helping hand to the owners who didn't expect the problems, or future buyers. My intention is to also give a pat on the back to those doing better and describe how they are doing better. Arguing about what I think is better is rather pointless once I've described my position, backed with evidence, because we all must make our choices and I don't care if someone makes another choice. In some cases, the two choices can be equal. I might get out the popcorn if the repercussions look interesting enough, but buyers are always free to do what they want.