Thinking about a Pause

[mvbeggs]

MV, I don't know exactly what that Imperial statement means either. But here is what I do know:

The frames were always advertised on their website as being made of 1/4" wall tubing, .250". However, it turns out they are 11 gauge, which is .123" or just under 1/8". I'm not saying that thickness is wrong, but the frames are weak and not made as advertised. So it seems obvious that the tubing thickness is wrong. A number of us had flexing that made the storage box rub on the front of the body, damaging it. My friend had his frame break at the suspension mount and wreck a swingarm. Then his frame cracked near the front, where the rails turn to become the tongue. While inspecting it we discovered the body mounting bolts were pulled out of the frame on the drivers side front and the body was just sitting on the frame there, but not attached. The frame cracked at a bad weld, my friend had a welder reinforce it.....

I think the "Our customers have spoken, and we’ve listened… " could possible refer to cases like the above.

Meanwhile, Isaac from Imperial said flexing is normal ..

I agree that flexing is normal, to a degree- but not to the point of damage. Deflections, as a design criteria, are as important as the strength in almost all structural designs.

....I designed a stiffener for my frame...

I'd be interested in seeing what you came up with. I would think Imperial might be interested as well.

...I hope Imperial gets the bugs worked out, steps up their quality and is successful. And I don't know how much they have improved since they came out. I am always interested in the ethos of companies, where and how they fall short....

I'm also not sure what improvements have been made since your purchase.
Agree with the "ethos of companies". IMHO, how a company reacts to issues and customer concerns separates the mediocre from the great.

Imperial is a classic case of being overworked, one person in control of the whole show and making some obviously bad decisions. I think it was a sincere attempt that had the potential to be the best in America while made in America. And the trailers can still be great if Imperial can muster the resources and energy to make them right.

Sound engineering, on the front end, is always the cheaper route. Hopefully Imperial will see the light, get some professional engineering, and make the necessary adjustments. I haven't seen anything that would be major a change/expense moving forward.

Another interesting story with a much bigger crash is Black Series. They managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of success. And it was almost all driven by one bad apple. Their obvious mistakes were legendary and completely unnecessary. I just shook my head in wonderment as they hammered themselves into irrelevance.

Haven't heard that story about BlackSeries- but it sounds interesting. I think many of their issues seemed to surface during COVID.

These stories are better suited to campfire talk than here, but I did want to fill in the blanks just a bit on Imperial. Everyone should be inspecting their frames periodically.

Looking forward to that campfire talk.

Raspy, thanks for filling in the blanks. I think it's important to share real work experience(s) with those looking to make these $75k-$100k trailer purchases. No one likes surprises after spending those kinds of $'s. Sharing experiences, also keeps manufactures honest. It becomes much more difficult for manufactures/dealers to treat a customer's issue like a "one off" issue when other people are obviously experiencing similar issues. These forums are great resources.

Hopefully these discussions spur probing questions from customers- that filter up to manufactures and encourage improvements in their products. If so, we all win- manufactures included.

Unresolved issues also make room for new manufactures, (i.e. Pause/Reboot) to fill the gaps.

 

[Raspy]

Imperial downplayed the frame breaking by blaming it on the owner. When confronted with the second break, they recommended an "unnecessary" fix that was just a simple "unneeded" bandaid. My analysis of the frame revealed poor welding, too much flexing (of course, all frames flex, but that is not the point. Flexing to the point of damage or failure is the point) and a poorly designed truss that added strength where not needed and none where is was needed. Proof of my analysis is the breaking and flexing. My added stiffener is a simple upgrade I would have done to mine, but I traded it instead of fixing that one issue while leaving others to be resolved. I don't really want to recommend others do the modifications that I propose on such a critical component. But just to share, it was a heavy duty stiffener welded to the bottom of the frame rail/tongue that tied into the existing truss. I'm happy to just point out the weakness, where it is and why it is. As soon as I recommend a fix, that I was mainly interested in for my own trailer, there will be a flood of comments that likely miss the point or simply claim "I've never had a problem" as though no fix is needed. So I'm content to suggest everyone watch out for the cracks in a breaking frame and damage from the storage box hitting the body. I have a lot of information on the subjects I mention here, but am reluctant to go very far with sharing. If a mechanical engineer or professional welder is available, have them take a look. I just want to recommend caution and point to where to look. Sometimes I'll share a company's response to the issues as part of my point. But I never want to be in any way inaccurate, or inflammatory. I'll share opinion as opinion, but not as fact. I'll share facts as facts, but not as opinion. As I mentioned earlier, I am fascinated with mistakes companies make that hurt themselves. And the problems can often be easily identified. They are often mistakes that lots of companies have been making for a long time. These can be management or engineering mistakes. I make recommendations concerning those mistakes and how they can affect others. "Others" can be end users or distributors. I have no ax to grind as I am not affiliated with them, but I am sympathetic. The two categories I focus on are the ethos and the engineering. Particularly, how the ethos or short term interests overlay engineering decisions and the outcome of those decisions. This is the primary reason failures, or poor quality, or surprise mistakes happen. It is all about shortcuts and the end result of those shortcuts. Shortcuts are driven by a lack of knowledge, financial pressures, impatience, or a combination of these factors. Then, the next category arrives, which is the response to those problems. This is a very telling part of the company's management and stability, stability both financially and emotionally. Emotional responses can include cultural traditions, management intentions, or habitual responses while under duress. I'll reach in, grab those decisions, and flip them up for all to see. This leads to improvements, or at least awareness by buyers. Or not. It can also lead to an accelerating downward spiral that companies can get trapped in.

If you pour all of this into one big pot and stir it up, you can pour out a path filled with pitfalls. I've negotiated that path with various trailers for years. My comments are descriptions of those pitfalls, and possibly, how to jump over them. My stories are very PG rated with the gory details left out. My intention is to alert others, while following fun stories of seemingly deliberate failure, so they can go into this game with eyes wide open. It's not to stir up trouble or start arguments. And hopefully, even if a bit painfully, it will encourage companies to do better, while offering a helping hand to the owners who didn't expect the problems, or future buyers. My intention is to also give a pat on the back to those doing better and describe how they are doing better. Arguing about what I think is better is rather pointless once I've described my position, backed with evidence, because we all must make our choices and I don't care if someone makes another choice. In some cases, the two choices can be equal. I might get out the popcorn if the repercussions look interesting enough, but buyers are always free to do what they want.

 

[jaywo]

There is not too much info on the solar or battery bank sizes, but they seem to not be as large as possible.

Personally, I do not get why the Roam Resilient Baja does not get more attention and I think your opinion seems a bit too negative, focusing on small details (such as that suspension is fox and not bilstein. They are ARB by the way).

Many specs on this model far exceed the Pause. Also, I do not know what you mean with "solar seem to not be as large as possible" but just to clarify, the Baja includes 9600Wh of Lithium with 19200Wh optional, as well as 1350W solar standard (1800W optioned) which is class leading and miles above the Pause Reboot.
It also has 3 stainless steel fresh water tank, 90 gallons total, and a 230 liter fridge (double the Pause capacity).

Also has a 18.5g Diesel tank for heating. For comparison a Pause has 10-14 galons of Propane. Diesel contains 50% more energy per galon, so the 18.5g diesel tank is equivalent to 37g of propane, or 3x more than the Pause.

All of those specs (water, fridge/food storage, solar and battery, heater) mean you can boondocks for much longer periods than in the Pause. A $500K expedition vehicle (Megatron, Truckhouse...) cannot compete with those specs and you would probably have to go with an Earthroamer to exceed this level.

All of that with a dry weight of 6300 lbs with 655 lbs tongue weight. Not to mention cool features such as a full outdoor kitchen complete with induction and sink, a motorbike rack that's actuated, etc.

 

[Raspy]

Personally, I do not get why the Roam Resilient Baja does not get more attention and I think your opinion seems a bit too negative, focusing on small details (such as that suspension is fox and not bilstein. They are ARB by the way).

Many specs on this model far exceed the Pause. Also, I do not know what you mean with "solar seem to not be as large as possible" but just to clarify, the Baja includes 9600Wh of Lithium with 19200Wh optional, as well as 1350W solar standard (1800W optioned) which is class leading and miles above the Pause Reboot.
It also has 3 stainless steel fresh water tank, 90 gallons total, and a 230 liter fridge (double the Pause capacity).

Also has a 18.5g Diesel tank for heating. For comparison a Pause has 10-14 galons of Propane. Diesel contains 50% more energy per galon, so the 18.5g diesel tank is equivalent to 37g of propane, or 3x more than the Pause.

All of those specs (water, fridge/food storage, solar and battery, heater) mean you can boondocks for much longer periods than in the Pause. A $500K expedition vehicle (Megatron, Truckhouse...) cannot compete with those specs and you would probably have to go with an Earthroamer to exceed this level.

All of that with a dry weight of 6300 lbs with 655 lbs tongue weight. Not to mention cool features such as a full outdoor kitchen complete with induction and sink, a motorbike rack that's actuated, etc.

I don't remember specifically comparing The Roam to others in the detail you are connecting me with. I've gone into great detail on the X195/R1 and the Reboot. And some on the X22. But I have no experience with a Roam.

I do understand diesel heating. That's why I would rather have propane. I'm not trying to live in it and go without any civilization for months at a time. There is much more to the story than how many BTUs per gallon diesel has, and heating fuel is not the limiting factor on trips. Using induction for cooking, running on solar and batteries is not that great of an idea. I've done it. And I converted to propane. Try cooking with induction and solar during a week of drizzling rain, or with snow sitting on the roof and you'll see what I mean. Not gonna happen. Not sure about your calcs on the fridge either. "Double the capacity"? Really? The Reboot 19.4 fridge is 10.7 cu ft. or 303 liter. 230 liters, as you mentioned, is only 8 cu ft. I'm sure the ARB shocks are fine, but given a choice, I'll take Bilstein. The cassette toilet is not for boondocking. It needs to be dumped about every other day and uses water to flush. Dry flush toilets are for boondocking and I installed a Separette brand Tiny in mine. The notion of a "composting toilet" is just about as ridiculous as a cassette toilet. Trailers are not the place to make compost, by storing and stirring waste over months of time. Do that on a ranch somewhere, not in your trailer. Maybe you could show us a picture of the roof with 1,800 watts of solar mounted to it. Not sure how that works. I'm running a hitch that is rated for 13,200 lbs instead of 10,000 lbs and is easier to use than a Cruisemaster. With my Morryde independent air suspension I can swap to a heavier duty set of axles, or replace one if a bearing failure ruins a spindle, in a matter of a couple of hours with locally sourced parts, out in the desert if necessary. No ordering stuff from overseas. Shocks can be picked up at NAPA or other local parts stores. Bilsteins are very good and won't cost as much as the ARBs. All the air suspension fittings are available at parts stores and truck stops across the US. All the electronics are Victron. The body has a full heavy gauge welded aluminum skeleton and the roof is arched with an aluminum truss system to shed water. The walls are waterproof and made from Azdell and fiberglass, over the insulation and aluminum skeleton. All UV inhibited. Fully designed to limit thermal bridging and condensation. It has recirculating hot water for instant hot at the faucets with no waiting for the WH to fire up. The Reboots are also made in the US.

The point is, I'm sure the Roam is a very nice trailer, although more expensive to buy, harder to get parts for, that are also more expensive. And backed up by a much smaller company. In bad weather, you'll find the induction stove becomes unusable if you are also using the batteries for other purposes. I can cook in any weather, with any cookware, for weeks with no solar and save the batteries for running the furnace, lighting and Starlink A six foot wide wheel track is not as stable as a seven foot wide track and makes trailers more top heavy. The trails I like best are not smooth level roads, but off camber and rough. The Reboot has nearly 12" of wheel suspension travel. Comparing the minimal dry weights is not accurate. We don't camp with empty trailers and no water. Compare real world trailers with all the options you want to include, such as full solar and battery banks. Stocked with water, food, gear, a full fridge, tools, recovery gear and clothes. Those are the numbers that matter. I opted out of the outdoor kitchen on the Reboot because all I want out there is a propane griddle and a couple of tables. It can be set specifically under the awning or on the other side of the trailer, if desired, and it has no impact on the insulation in the walls or intrusion into the interior. The griddle is powered by a quick connect propane fitting and a long hose. I don't know of any diesel or induction griddles, so propane makes perfect sense. It is very practical and has no dependence on solar.

So, it seems you got offended. Does everybody have to pick the same thing? Does everybody camp in the same way at the same locations? I don't think so. I suggest you rush right out and get a Roam. They seem perfectly fine. I don't care. It's not a competition. I made my decision based on having a lot of trailers and a lot of time spent in them. I'm happy. You should be too. Go get the one you like.

 

[jaywo]

I don't remember specifically comparing The Roam to others in the detail you are connecting me with. I've gone into great detail on the X195/R1 and the Reboot. And some on the X22. But I have no experience with a Roam.

I do understand diesel heating. That's why I would rather have propane. I'm not trying to live in it and go without any civilization for months at a time. There is much more to the story than how many BTUs per gallon diesel has, and heating fuel is not the limiting factor on trips. Using induction for cooking, running on solar and batteries is not that great of an idea. I've done it. And I converted to propane. Try cooking with induction and solar during a week of drizzling rain, or with snow sitting on the roof and you'll see what I mean. Not gonna happen. Not sure about your calcs on the fridge either. "Double the capacity"? Really? The Reboot 19.4 fridge is 10.7 cu ft. or 303 liter. 230 liters, as you mentioned, is only 8 cu ft. I'm sure the ARB shocks are fine, but given a choice, I'll take Bilstein. The cassette toilet is not for boondocking. It needs to be dumped about every other day and uses water to flush. Dry flush toilets are for boondocking and I installed a Separette brand Tiny in mine. The notion of a "composting toilet" is just about as ridiculous as a cassette toilet. Trailers are not the place to make compost, by storing and stirring waste over months of time. Do that on a ranch somewhere, not in your trailer. Maybe you could show us a picture of the roof with 1,800 watts of solar mounted to it. Not sure how that works. I'm running a hitch that is rated for 13,200 lbs instead of 10,000 lbs and is easier to use than a Cruisemaster. With my Morryde independent air suspension I can swap to a heavier duty set of axles, or replace one if a bearing failure ruins a spindle, in a matter of a couple of hours with locally sourced parts, out in the desert if necessary. No ordering stuff from overseas. Shocks can be picked up at NAPA or other local parts stores. Bilsteins are very good and won't cost as much as the ARBs. All the air suspension fittings are available at parts stores and truck stops across the US. All the electronics are Victron. The body has a full heavy gauge welded aluminum skeleton and the roof is arched with an aluminum truss system to shed water. The walls are waterproof and made from Azdell and fiberglass, over the insulation and aluminum skeleton. All UV inhibited. Fully designed to limit thermal bridging and condensation. It has recirculating hot water for instant hot at the faucets with no waiting for the WH to fire up. The Reboots are also made in the US.

The point is, I'm sure the Roam is a very nice trailer, although more expensive to buy, harder to get parts for, that are also more expensive. And backed up by a much smaller company. In bad weather, you'll find the induction stove becomes unusable if you are also using the batteries for other purposes. I can cook in any weather, with any cookware, for weeks with no solar and save the batteries for running the furnace, lighting and Starlink A six foot wide wheel track is not as stable as a seven foot wide track and makes trailers more top heavy. The trails I like best are not smooth level roads, but off camber and rough. The Reboot has nearly 12" of wheel suspension travel. Comparing the minimal dry weights is not accurate. We don't camp with empty trailers and no water. Compare real world trailers with all the options you want to include, such as full solar and battery banks. Stocked with water, food, gear, a full fridge, tools, recovery gear and clothes. Those are the numbers that matter. I opted out of the outdoor kitchen on the Reboot because all I want out there is a propane griddle and a couple of tables. It can be set specifically under the awning or on the other side of the trailer, if desired, and it has no impact on the insulation in the walls or intrusion into the interior. The griddle is powered by a quick connect propane fitting and a long hose. I don't know of any diesel or induction griddles, so propane makes perfect sense. It is very practical and has no dependence on solar.

So, it seems you got offended. Does everybody have to pick the same thing? Does everybody camp in the same way at the same locations? I don't think so. I suggest you rush right out and get a Roam. They seem perfectly fine. I don't care. It's not a competition. I made my decision based on having a lot of trailers and a lot of time spent in them. I'm happy. You should be too. Go get the one you like.

I was reading through your entire message thinking you are the one who got offended as you go in length into defending the Pause. It seems you want to reassure yourself that you made the right choice.
You see I do not have a Roam, nor a Pause, and I don't need to promote one or the other (like you did for the Pause). As a non owner, I have nothing to be offended for.
It's just that someone on this thread asked about the Roam, and you seemed overly critical, while being overly positive on the Pause. I found out more info on the Roam and it just seems in an entire different league compared to the Pause, so I thought I would list a few specs.

It's expensive, and it's a small company for sure. But I don't think there is anything on the market that touches these specs at this price point.

As for your issue with induction, I have used induction cooking while camping, with much less solar, and never had an issue. I have no interest camping somewhere with 7 days in a row of constant rain. This is why I buy an RV: to be able to move somewhere nice. It might be an issue with how little solar the Pause have, but not with 1800W and 20KWh of battery. I would run out of water on the Pause before I run out of energy on the Baja.

 

[Raspy]

Well, you seem to have read a lot into my comments, while expanding them in a way that fits your beliefs, even though you don't have a real trailer to compare with or any information about me. So, I'll just write off any dishonest or slanted views made only to make a non point. And by the way, I have camped with a 1250 watts of solar and 1080 AH of lithium, along with induction cooking. I'm not just blowing smoke. As stated, go get whatever you want. Who cares? I simply report the facts and specs as I see it and I report on a lot of inside information about the companies, quality issues, warrantee issues, etc. Because I live it and I research it. I invite you to find anything I've said that is not true. Tell us more about fitting 1800 watts on the roof, or making compost in a trailer, or only camping in Baja, or how an outdoor griddle works with induction, or trying to convince us that 230 is bigger than 303. Or explain why Bilstein shocks are bad. Explain your positions, if you can. I don't think you can, as personal attacks seem to be more important. I don't exaggerate and I'm not beholden to any brands. I've had a lot of them, studied all about them, been through the factories, talked to the engineers, redesigned the systems in them, found the weaknesses in them and camped in them. There is no perfect trailer. And I don't care what you get, but considering you don't even have the one you are blindly promoting, I just have to laugh. I've camped in Baja many times and all over the Country. If you only want to camp in Baja, that's great, but why does it then matter to you if the Roam is good in freezing weather? So what? I do think it is pretty comical how offended you get over telling us ridiculous information that gets slightly challenged about a trailer you don't even have. Who cares? Go get whatever you want. You are the only one who needs to like it.

 

[jaywo]

Well, you seem to have read a lot into my comments, while expanding them in a way that fits your beliefs, even though you don't have a real trailer to compare with or any information about me. So, I'll just write off any dishonest or slanted views made only to make a non point. And by the way, I have camped with a 1250 watts of solar and 1080 AH of lithium, along with induction cooking. I'm not just blowing smoke. As stated, go get whatever you want. Who cares? I simply report the facts and specs as I see it and I report on a lot of inside information about the companies, quality issues, warrantee issues, etc. Because I live it and I research it. I invite you to find anything I've said that is not true. Tell us more about fitting 1800 watts on the roof, or making compost in a trailer, or only camping in Baja, or how an outdoor griddle works with induction, or trying to convince us that 230 is bigger than 303. Or explain why Bilstein shocks are bad. Explain your positions, if you can. I don't think you can, as personal attacks seem to be more important. I don't exaggerate and I'm not beholden to any brands. I've had a lot of them, studied all about them, been through the factories, talked to the engineers, redesigned the systems in them, found the weaknesses in them and camped in them. There is no perfect trailer. And I don't care what you get, but considering you don't even have the one you are blindly promoting, I just have to laugh. I've camped in Baja many times and all over the Country. If you only want to camp in Baja, that's great, but why does it then matter to you if the Roam is good in freezing weather? So what? I do think it is pretty comical how offended you get over telling us ridiculous information that gets slightly challenged about a trailer you don't even have. Who cares? Go get whatever you want. You are the only one who needs to like it.

Yes nobody cares about what I get and I can buy whatever I want. Thanks for the reminder but let me remind you this forum and this sub in particular is about sharing thoughts on trailers which is exactly what I did.

You want me to answer your questions : I made a mistake on the fridge capacity but it's still huge and not a limiting factor VS the Pause (unlike water and energy production), everything else stands. I don't know what's the issue you have about solar. It's listed on their website and there is a photo of it. The entire roof is covered with solar when you get the 1800W option (AC is in the back, like an integrated mini split). I am not working or affiliated with this company, what else do you want me to say? I don't have more information than what they list.
I do not know why you ask me to explain why Bilsteins are bad? I have 6112 on my truck and love them. Where did I say Bilsteins are bad?
Your questions don't make sense. There are not to create a positive debate. I can ask things with the same logic: explain to me why having much more solar, much more battery capacity, much more water capacity is bad? Your rhetoric is pointless. I never said the Pause or Bilstein, or your freaking toilet are bad. I said the listed specs for the Baja for off grid capabilities exceed those of the Pause by far and is unheard of at this price point. That's a fact and that's all I wanted to point out.

You seem to like writing tons book-long messages that are basically criticizing things you don't own, and praise what you own. So feel free to write another book about how nobody cares about what trailer I buy or or you help , on my end I'll leave it here. Thanks for the debate.

 

[Raspy]

Yes nobody cares about what I get and I can buy whatever I want. Thanks for the reminder but let me remind you this forum and this sub in particular is about sharing thoughts on trailers which is exactly what I did.

You want me to answer your questions : I made a mistake on the fridge capacity but it's still huge and not a limiting factor VS the Pause (unlike water and energy production), everything else stands. I don't know what's the issue you have about solar. It's listed on their website and there is a photo of it. The entire roof is covered with solar when you get the 1800W option (AC is in the back, like an integrated mini split). I am not working or affiliated with this company, what else do you want me to say? I don't have more information than what they list.
I do not know why you ask me to explain why Bilsteins are bad? I have 6112 on my truck and love them. Where did I say Bilsteins are bad?
Your questions don't make sense. There are not to create a positive debate. I can ask things with the same logic: explain to me why having much more solar, much more battery capacity, much more water capacity is bad? Your rhetoric is pointless. I never said the Pause or Bilstein, or your freaking toilet are bad. I said the listed specs for the Baja for off grid capabilities exceed those of the Pause by far and is unheard of at this price point. That's a fact and that's all I wanted to point out.

You seem to like writing tons book-long messages that are basically criticizing things you don't own, and praise what you own. So feel free to write another book about how nobody cares about what trailer I buy or or you help , on my end I'll leave it here. Thanks for the debate.

Well, I do tend to make long posts. This is because I offer supporting information about what my position is. I'm thorough. I give the reasons for my answers. You don't have to read them if you don't want to.

I'm interested in all trailer designs. On my R1 I had 1250 watts of solar and it covered the whole top of the roof, except for the vent On the same size trailer, the Roam, I have not sen a picture of how they can get 600 more watts onto the same size roof. So I asked you to provide one since you brought up the 1800 watts. I suspect they are including ground solar as part of the package. You also mentioned the ARB shocks. That's nice, but there may be a more practical brands, such as Bilstein. I don't see ARB shocks as an advantage because I'm sure they are way more expensive and harder to get. If you know of an advantage to the ARB shocks, tell us what it is. The Bilsteins work very well, they are velocity sensitive, I have them on my Pause and they are readily available. The Roam doesn't have a boondocking toilet. The bottom line point is that you are promoting a Roam, which is fine with me, but I'm asking you to clarify why it is better with real information instead of just listing things without explaining why. And try to do it in a way that is not dishonest about the one you are comparing it too. WHY is it better? If it is, great. You mentioned the great outdoor kitchen, I guess that means a griddle, but I don't know. You also talk about how great induction cooking is and not wanting propane. Fine. How do you have an outdoor griddle with no propane? Just asking. Expand on why you think the items you like are better. You still say the larger fridge in the Pause is a limiting factor compared to the smaller Roam fridge. OK, WHY is it a limiting factor? Expand on your opinions so I and others can see what you mean when the actual data doesn't seem to add up. Expanding on an opinion, leads to longer posts. Blurting out non supportable or incomplete opinion, leads to confusion. I'd rather be thorough. And I will admit I'm biased toward the one I chose. It is not perfect. But I chose it for real reasons after having a lot of trailers and looking a lot of others. I'm sure the Roam is great too. But I had solid reasons for selecting the Reboot. When I'm told that something obviously not as good, is better, like a cassette or water based toilet for boondocking, I challenge that conclusion and want the reasoning behind it. If you like it, fine, get it. It's up to you completely with no argument. But telling others it's better requires more information.