BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
Plus you could slide yourself under the Jeep and wipe of the road dirt and see what the t-case is stamped with.
and then there's that. :coffeedrink:
Thinking of an XJ
- Thread starter Schattenjager
- Start date
and then there's that. :coffeedrink:
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Others may argue make sure you get the NV242 because it has a selectable full-time (i.e. AWD) mode whilst the NV231 does not.
There is a 4:1 gear set (Teraflx) and SYEs for the NV242 (various). I'm not sure if an automatic transmission equipped XJ really needs lower than 2.72:1 low range for overlanding usage. I might see it with a stick shift.
The caveat to the TeraFlx low range is that you have to send your front case half to them for modification. Given you can typically get a NV242 for free or very cheap within most Jeep clubs it's a very small caveat.
Additionally you can rebuild a NV242 using NV242AMG parts (HMMWV transfer case) to get a much stronger case. The NV242 used in Dakotas and WJs have an external cooler and a higher torque rating. I am not certain if they are bolt on compatible with a AW4/AX15 installed in an XJ.
The big thing that keeps people away from the NV242 is that there is only a hack and tap SYE option. I'm not sure why you'd have an issue on a hack-n-tap SYE in a long wheelbase vehicle like an XJ given there are no real thrust loads on the end of the shaft. The splined section of the rear propellor shaft deals with that load.
Sure, maybe you can get a higher spline count for rock crawling with a replacement shaft style SYE but we aren't talking about rock crawling (much) on this forum. I think it is a red herring independent of that point. Also, the AMG mods get you 32 spline rear output if you really think you need it.
The NV242 case is physically bigger and longer than than the NV231. I spaced my NV242 up at the transfer case mount by about 5/8" and welded a ~1" deep pocket into the bottom of my TNT belly pan to make clearance for the case. I don't have a completely flat belly on my rig but it is close enough and shaped such to not really matter.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
These are good points. I'd rather have OBD-II personally but that is just preference. When it comes to engines I like "mainstream". OBD does not preclude doing engine modifications.
I agree that the power differences are a wash. Some say the RENIX trucks are capable of better MPG in the real world. RENIX also is more adaptable to a stroker build. That's not to say that you can't do a stroker with the OBD engines (google reveals there's plenty out there) but the electronics are less fiddly for a stroker build. With RENIX, IIRC all you need to do is increase the injector size and/or increase the fuel rail pressure.
There is a company out there now (Montana Fab?) that makes a AW4 controller that is compatible with the OBD-II engines. It is a recent thing (last nine months?).
The Adam Blaster
Expedition Leader
Good info Root Moose!
The "biggest" issue that I've read about regarding the 242 comes with it's size, and when you add the rear 8.25 in there, the combination together decrease the distance between the two items, and the driveshaft ends up with a poorer angle than with other combinations.
This really only pertains to when you start lifting the vehicle more than 3", so ya, not the biggest deal on this forum.
I didn't know about that Teraflex gearing for the 242 t-case either, I was told by a local 4x4 shop I didn't have an option.
Side note - I have been tossing around options for re-gearing in the axles, and thought maybe 4.10's but with an extra low gear for the t-case in 4lo.
It's just more money though, so I'm still on the hunt for the cheapest route to get 4.56's in there.
(I did see your post on that matter Root Moose, thanks!)
The "biggest" issue that I've read about regarding the 242 comes with it's size, and when you add the rear 8.25 in there, the combination together decrease the distance between the two items, and the driveshaft ends up with a poorer angle than with other combinations.
This really only pertains to when you start lifting the vehicle more than 3", so ya, not the biggest deal on this forum.
I didn't know about that Teraflex gearing for the 242 t-case either, I was told by a local 4x4 shop I didn't have an option.
Side note - I have been tossing around options for re-gearing in the axles, and thought maybe 4.10's but with an extra low gear for the t-case in 4lo.
It's just more money though, so I'm still on the hunt for the cheapest route to get 4.56's in there.
(I did see your post on that matter Root Moose, thanks!)
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
How many Toyotas have you owned??? ...cause I've owned more then a few XJ's in particualr and still have one in the family... I say this coming from that standpoint. I had fun in my XJ's but comparitivly they're just built to be thrash and toss vehicles IMO. My responce is also related to the fact that he will, from an engineering and quality standpoint, be taking a large step backwards from the already awesome truck he has. If he had an older XJ then yeah a newer model would be progress, but going from an 80 Series to an XJ??? That just doesn't make sence to me. ...But in the end it's your money so do what ya want eh.
I will say I loved my 4.0L's in my XJ's. Lots of torque and a great motor for the most part. Check to see if the PO has replaced the crank sensor because as I found out it can go bad and somehow fry your ECU...Water pumps like to mysteriously fry berrings too (had two of those go bad on me on ONE TRUCK in 2 years). I personaly I also liked the last gen interiors the best I think what like 97+??? They were just more polished looking and fit the truck well. I also liked the color-coded body skirts/trim on the later models. Another issue I had with XJ's though was outward view. I find it hard to see up to stop lights and they're not real "roomy" inside. The back seat is best suited to small folks and children for long drives as they will be uncompfrtable.
Oh and for the record I AM a Jeep fan... I LOVE CJ-8's, 6's and LJ Rubi's to DEATH... I think that the LJ Rubicon might just be one of the best 4wd's ever offered in N.America. I like the Mid-W/B rigs clearly as well, I find a little extra W/B like my 4Runner or an LJ/CJ8/CJ6 helps ALOT in a variety of terrain
Cheers
Dave
JeepN95YJ
Adventurer
Dave, I've never owned a toyota. Of course that isn't what I'm talking about. I don't really care what you drive. I started trail driving in 1988 with a Samurai. I still have it and still love it. What I'm talking about is your answer to every question is "buy a toyota".
From here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37403&highlight=jeep+toyota
And from here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32572&highlight=jeep+toyota
And from here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32135&highlight=jeep+toyota&page=3
Nearly every time you post you tell someone to buy a 4Runner. Thinking a toyota is the answer to every question is just strange!:Wow1:
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Yeah, I've read about people getting excited about the rear shaft angles on XJs with the NV242. I just don't understand it I guess. I have the 242 and a Dana 44 (out of a Scout but the differential housing is the same as a Jeep Dana 44) and I'm lifted ~5". The shaft is long enough and combined with a SYE the angles are fine. I have a hack-n-tap SYE and that makes the transfer case portion of the drivetrain even longer.
Now, put a NV242 in a flat fender and then I could see some issues.
Teraflx doesn't list it in their web site or catalog (if they even print a catalog even more?). Call them and they'll give the skinny. They probably know some wizened old tree gnome under a rock in Moab that carves it out of steel ingots for them.
IMO go with the 4.56s. When you get that trailer you'll be glad to have it.
What is the logic for 4.10s? If it is better fuel economy forget it. Pushing a brick through the air at highway speeds you want more gearing "pep" so that your foot isn't into the throttle as much. It's the butterfly valve setting that determines your fuel economy for the most part (simplification). Less throttle setting means better mpg for the same speed (sweeping generalisation).
Even if by the numbers 4.10s and your tire size lands you at the same effective gearing as stock you still want the 4.56 to also compensate for the added aero drag (lift, bull bar or whatever), rolling friction of wider tires, added weight to the vehicle, and extra weight (inertia) of the wheels and tires.
The AMC sixes have a reputation for not minding a bit of RPM at cruise (within reason). And the difference between 4.10s and 4.56 is what, 150-200 RPM? Not a big deal.
$0.02
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
FZJ80s are great vehicles. For some reason Schattenjager can't keep his. So the Toyota point is irrelevant.
I've waffled back and forth over a FZJ80 or HZJ80 a few times over the years. Done the same with G-Wagens. I could afford either if I wanted them so the money aspect is not a direct factor per se.
You know what though? I like the XJ as a platform. Climbing into mine feels like throwing on a comfortable old shoe.
It has lots going for it. Parts are cheap and everywhere. No $2000 master cylinders in an XJ. If you break down anywhere in North America any local parts house will have your parts handy.
I like that Jeeps have zero snob appeal. Basic and utilitarian. It's why I forgive the crappy build quality in them. I have yet to meet a car where I am as forgiving.
XJs have been built into everything possible and the aftermarket support is huge. Nowadays I think it may be almost as big as with the Wrangler.
Every single "issue" with the XJ has got a solution if you know how to operate Google.
Some people have had problems with XJs and reliability. They are the minority. I wonder if they would have problems regardless of what they owned at the time (<jk>).
A lot of these points can be said for other vehicles too. Very few at this price point though.
I've waffled back and forth over a FZJ80 or HZJ80 a few times over the years. Done the same with G-Wagens. I could afford either if I wanted them so the money aspect is not a direct factor per se.
You know what though? I like the XJ as a platform. Climbing into mine feels like throwing on a comfortable old shoe.
It has lots going for it. Parts are cheap and everywhere. No $2000 master cylinders in an XJ. If you break down anywhere in North America any local parts house will have your parts handy.
I like that Jeeps have zero snob appeal. Basic and utilitarian. It's why I forgive the crappy build quality in them. I have yet to meet a car where I am as forgiving.
XJs have been built into everything possible and the aftermarket support is huge. Nowadays I think it may be almost as big as with the Wrangler.
Every single "issue" with the XJ has got a solution if you know how to operate Google.
Some people have had problems with XJs and reliability. They are the minority. I wonder if they would have problems regardless of what they owned at the time (<jk>).
A lot of these points can be said for other vehicles too. Very few at this price point though.
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
End of thread, right there.
We've been using mine as our primary transport, as our van has been having issues. For all my worrying about size,needing a bigger rig, etc it completely fits our needs, and is really fun to drive.
Schattenjager
Expedition Leader
I appreciate the insight and time you folks have put into this thread.
The Land Cruiser is my dream rig - and honestly, there is nothing more I would do to it, but things being what they are, I must look at other options.
The Jeep is a consideration as a second vehicle only. It will sit a lot, stay packed up with the fun gear, and haul Atlas (German shepherd V.2.0) and I to new places in the wilds. My first Cherokee experience was so bad I did not want to consider another problem child, but then again, the platform was very nice and workable. I posted here to see what the skinny was regarding durability, mods, etc. Much like my Leatherman - it may not be the prettiest, but it's dependable and that was what I was wanting to learn of newer XJ's.
If I get the deal done on my Cruiser, I'll probably start looking at 91+ XJ's!
The Land Cruiser is my dream rig - and honestly, there is nothing more I would do to it, but things being what they are, I must look at other options.
The Jeep is a consideration as a second vehicle only. It will sit a lot, stay packed up with the fun gear, and haul Atlas (German shepherd V.2.0) and I to new places in the wilds. My first Cherokee experience was so bad I did not want to consider another problem child, but then again, the platform was very nice and workable. I posted here to see what the skinny was regarding durability, mods, etc. Much like my Leatherman - it may not be the prettiest, but it's dependable and that was what I was wanting to learn of newer XJ's.
If I get the deal done on my Cruiser, I'll probably start looking at 91+ XJ's!
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
I know you have been reticent to discuss the back story behind the TLC so we don't know what is really going on in that regard but...
I think that you are nuts to consider switching platforms just to save a couple grand.
You have you TLC listed at something like $12k. To build an XJ very nicely and as capable with respect to stability, durability, cruisability, etc., etc will likely cost similarly depending on what your expectation levels are. Bush buggy is one thing, an "overlanding style build" is something else
I think it is false economy to make the change if you really like your TLC. You may have as much into the XJ ultimately by the time you redo axles, add lockers, gear, etc., etc. Especially if you end up paying retail for most of the parts and have to pay someone to install them. By the sounds of it, you don't "feel the love" for the XJ platform, you are acting on costs.
I may be talking out my a55 but from what I've read of your posts this sounds to be the situation. Keep the 'Cruiser and make it work IMO. You will kick yourself in the bu77 perpetually for selling the 'Cruiser.
$0.02
I think that you are nuts to consider switching platforms just to save a couple grand.
You have you TLC listed at something like $12k. To build an XJ very nicely and as capable with respect to stability, durability, cruisability, etc., etc will likely cost similarly depending on what your expectation levels are. Bush buggy is one thing, an "overlanding style build" is something else
I think it is false economy to make the change if you really like your TLC. You may have as much into the XJ ultimately by the time you redo axles, add lockers, gear, etc., etc. Especially if you end up paying retail for most of the parts and have to pay someone to install them. By the sounds of it, you don't "feel the love" for the XJ platform, you are acting on costs.
I may be talking out my a55 but from what I've read of your posts this sounds to be the situation. Keep the 'Cruiser and make it work IMO. You will kick yourself in the bu77 perpetually for selling the 'Cruiser.
$0.02
Schattenjager
Expedition Leader
The backstory is unimportant.
The Jeep, if I get one, will not be built up to anywhere near the standard of the LC. I might add a lift and sliders with some bigger Treadwrights. Maybe. Of the rigs I have owned and built, I have never come close to pushing the limits - it is not my style to rock crawl, and honestly, a modest XJ would supersede any requirements I have run into to date. The Cruiser is so much more than I need it makes me sad I am under utilizing it. I can't think of an analogy that adequately demonstrates the superiority of the LC to my needs. So the thought of building an XJ into a Cruiser is no where in my consideration, if it is even possible considering size, durability etc. I should have made that point more clearly in the first post.
The Jeep, if I get one, will not be built up to anywhere near the standard of the LC. I might add a lift and sliders with some bigger Treadwrights. Maybe. Of the rigs I have owned and built, I have never come close to pushing the limits - it is not my style to rock crawl, and honestly, a modest XJ would supersede any requirements I have run into to date. The Cruiser is so much more than I need it makes me sad I am under utilizing it. I can't think of an analogy that adequately demonstrates the superiority of the LC to my needs. So the thought of building an XJ into a Cruiser is no where in my consideration, if it is even possible considering size, durability etc. I should have made that point more clearly in the first post.
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winkosmosis
Explorer
I wish mine had a 242 for the full time 4WD
alexfm
Explorer
I've been delighted with my 1988 XJ, which I've had for almost twenty years and 300 000 miles. I like the earlier body style mainly for the interior. I'm 6 foot 6, so leg room is a high value to me. The earlier style dash has no significant knee bolster taking up room. I think the Limited seats from the late 80s were some of the most comfortable. The earlier dash is also lower in front of the windshield, and visibility is easier.
The 4.0 L motor is strong and easy to work on. The older XJs have a proprietary engine management system called RENIX (Renault + Bendix) that is kind of orphaned now, but generally reliable enough not to matter.
The most important thing about older XJs is the cooling system. The closed system with pressurized expansion bottle takes close care to keep reliable. Air pockets in the system congregate in the head and can lead to hot spots. Pressure leaks will lead to overtemperatures. The plastic expansion bottle eventually fails under pressure, and will normally need replacement every 5 years or so. Quadratec make a better one than Mopar for replacement.
The NP242 (Selec Trac) full time / center differential transfer case is a nice thing to have for a daily driver.
Cherokees are not perfectly reliable, unlike, say, my old Toyota pickup, but they'll almost always get you home and they're pretty easy to work on.
They hold a surprisingly large amount of stuff, especially if the spare is relocated to the exterior, as with some of the swing away rear bumper mounts.
Don
I dont mean to hijack the thread here, but where did you get that rear bumper or is it a custom piece? Thats exactly what I want for my XJ. If you'd like, just send me a PM so we can keep it outta this thread.
Oh, and to put this thread back on track, my XJ is my first car, and Im going to drive it until it dies. Its got 215k miles, and I got it for $900. It was a bit of a fixer upper, so if you dont mind spending a good amount of time wrenching on one, pick up one that needs some work. Mine had a broken motor mount and a trashed distributor. I fixed that and she runs like a champ now. They are awesome cars, and I wouldnt wanna drive anything else!