86cj
Explorer
They clearly include the RWD Transit in the article, an issue that has come up by people who use them. Fleet and Expediter's are a great place for info on the real deal.....
Thoughts on Ram ProMaster FWD Vans?
- Thread starter Sisyphus
- Start date
They clearly include the RWD Transit in the article, an issue that has come up by people who use them. Fleet and Expediter's are a great place for info on the real deal.....
The steering issue you refer to on a front wheel drive is torque steer. Usually due to one drive shaft longer than the other and flexes unevenly left to right. I'm not sure the fiat is the same as the promaster. The dodge dealer told me it was a fiat designed body with dodge running gear. I test drove one of the diesels and applied the throttle as much as it would go and didn't notice any torque steer. The van did break traction fairly easily stating on wet concrete going up hill.
I've had one for a year. I got it used with 8k miles on it. V^ gas and I average 17 mpg mixed driving. I got it because of price and overall interior room, I can stand up all the way inside, I'm 6'1", and it is wide enough to sleep crossways.
I looked at the Ford Transit and the Promaster. Mercedes was too expensive for me and I'm not crazy about the new diesel engines.
Ground clearance is the same as the rear transaxle and shock mounts for the Ford. Torque steer does occur if you really stomp on it, but I doesn't happen in normal driving.
I built mine out as a simple weekender and use it for Baja and Southern California camping, going to the beach etc.
The Ford was also nice, but just a bit smaller inside. The Ford is probably built better, but I will address this with an long term warranty.
I looked at the Ford Transit and the Promaster. Mercedes was too expensive for me and I'm not crazy about the new diesel engines.
Ground clearance is the same as the rear transaxle and shock mounts for the Ford. Torque steer does occur if you really stomp on it, but I doesn't happen in normal driving.
I built mine out as a simple weekender and use it for Baja and Southern California camping, going to the beach etc.
The Ford was also nice, but just a bit smaller inside. The Ford is probably built better, but I will address this with an long term warranty.
BajaSportsmobile
Baja Ironman
The issue isn't the single lowest point (typically under the differential housings), it is more importantly the "Breakover Angle?". In the case of the ProMaster, that is the real issue, along with the fact that the lowest point extends completely from side to side. You can't put "that rock" between the wheel and the diff to clear it... you are going to hit it.
Another problem with these vans is that larger tires for more ground clearance is not an option - no wheel well room and no gear options. Unfortunately, the "one size fits all" of the Euro style mentality doesn't belong in Overlanding and Off-roading.
Another problem with these vans is that larger tires for more ground clearance is not an option - no wheel well room and no gear options. Unfortunately, the "one size fits all" of the Euro style mentality doesn't belong in Overlanding and Off-roading.
Ironman,
You are correct that they are not really "offroad" vehicles, but I'm not sure if the 4x4 sprinter is either. Kind of long and tall for tight trails.
I'm no expert but I think the modified Astro's, Express Van's, and Ford E series are about as big as you want to go if you really want to get out there, and the Landrover and Jeep guys would say they are too big.
I had an unlifted Astro and the Promaster has better clearance. BTW you can put larger offroad All terrain tires on them, not sure how big, but bigger than stock. A guy here is Dana Point has done this.
I can get to most of the places I want to go in Baja and I kind of fly under the radar. A huge lifted vehicle with lots of gear hanging off of it kind of stands out in Baja.
BTW you live in Paradise, really like that stretch of coast.
John
You are correct that they are not really "offroad" vehicles, but I'm not sure if the 4x4 sprinter is either. Kind of long and tall for tight trails.
I'm no expert but I think the modified Astro's, Express Van's, and Ford E series are about as big as you want to go if you really want to get out there, and the Landrover and Jeep guys would say they are too big.
I had an unlifted Astro and the Promaster has better clearance. BTW you can put larger offroad All terrain tires on them, not sure how big, but bigger than stock. A guy here is Dana Point has done this.
I can get to most of the places I want to go in Baja and I kind of fly under the radar. A huge lifted vehicle with lots of gear hanging off of it kind of stands out in Baja.
BTW you live in Paradise, really like that stretch of coast.
John
Haf-E
Expedition Leader
The 144" Sprinter and the 136" Promaster are about the same size. The 4x4 Sprinter is a bit taller but is available as a low roof and it has much more clearance under the middle than a Promaster. The 4x4 Sprinter also offers a low range option - so I would consider it to be a "real" 4x4 vehicle.
The biggest benefit I see of the 4x4 Sprinters is the ability to drive on a beach and to not have to put chains on up in the mountains when it snows. I agree its not a "rock crawler" but many (most) 4x4's aren't either. For beach and snow driving the height and length aren't really an issue.
I wouldn't drive on the beach with a 2WD Sprinter or Promaster - the heavy nose tends to plow into the sand and you get stuck.
The biggest benefit I see of the 4x4 Sprinters is the ability to drive on a beach and to not have to put chains on up in the mountains when it snows. I agree its not a "rock crawler" but many (most) 4x4's aren't either. For beach and snow driving the height and length aren't really an issue.
I wouldn't drive on the beach with a 2WD Sprinter or Promaster - the heavy nose tends to plow into the sand and you get stuck.
derjack
Adventurer
I am Not sure what the initial post was looking for... "thoughts...."?
It's just totally different targets: European van are made for casting loads, not trailing. They can be driven with very low fuel consumption. C center of gravity is very low, way lower than an e350, what is really good on road.
You cannot make on offroad vehicle from this basis! The Unibody construction does not help either. You can just make them get more traction. Which dies NOT help off-road, because you will destroy a sprinter/or what ever.
You can check out my pictures of Europe's biggest off-road fair last week @ my home page, aka Abenteuer Allrad 2016. There are some 6x6 sprinters, though nothing for off-road, just better traction.
I rented one to deliver some communications gear, drove it about 400 miles in one day.
It was a willing truck, able to negotiate freeway on ramps adequately, it had a nice turning radius and was easy enough to drive.
The cargo area was awesome. I was able to use a forklift to load a 4' pallet loaded with 500lbs of gear through both the side and rear doors.
I did not enjoy the driving position or seat. I am sure that it would have been better for a smaller man, but it was uncomfortable for me. I felt like I was sitting on top of a phone book.
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It was a willing truck, able to negotiate freeway on ramps adequately, it had a nice turning radius and was easy enough to drive.
The cargo area was awesome. I was able to use a forklift to load a 4' pallet loaded with 500lbs of gear through both the side and rear doors.
I did not enjoy the driving position or seat. I am sure that it would have been better for a smaller man, but it was uncomfortable for me. I felt like I was sitting on top of a phone book.
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wjeeper
Active member
In reading the previous posts the FWD may be more of a hinderance than I guessed! We had a RWD truck truck we plowed with for years. It was terrible in the snow without 2000+ worth of salt in the back. Guess a RWD is more capable with a load in the back than a FWD?
The 20k lower purchase price will buy you a lot of trips! It doesn't matter if you have the worlds coolest sprinter if afford to get out and enjoy it............
My brother is looking at making the change to a promaster for his carpet business/ weekend moto hauler. He has no interest in going off road, it would work for him. Me the Unibody is a huge turnoff for off pavement use. I had a unibody trail Jeep............it seemed like a good idea at the time. The steering box ripped itself out of the "frame". Towards the end the doors didn't shut worth a crap. But on the flip side you wont (or shouldn't) be rock crawling a pro-master. :elkgrin:Also it seems like a sub 4.0L engine would be a nutless wonder on the hills we have here in Utah!:smiley_drive:
The 20k lower purchase price will buy you a lot of trips! It doesn't matter if you have the worlds coolest sprinter if afford to get out and enjoy it............
My brother is looking at making the change to a promaster for his carpet business/ weekend moto hauler. He has no interest in going off road, it would work for him. Me the Unibody is a huge turnoff for off pavement use. I had a unibody trail Jeep............it seemed like a good idea at the time. The steering box ripped itself out of the "frame". Towards the end the doors didn't shut worth a crap. But on the flip side you wont (or shouldn't) be rock crawling a pro-master. :elkgrin:Also it seems like a sub 4.0L engine would be a nutless wonder on the hills we have here in Utah!:smiley_drive:
Look up the 0-60 times for the Transit, Promaster and Sprinter. The Transit with the Eco motor is a hotrod but a heavy foot will cost you at the pump, the standard motor along with the Promaster V6 both accelerate quite well and climb grades as fast as you want. I drove the Sprinter and it is quite slow as indicated by the 0-60 times. My Promaster accelerates as fast as a normal car, loaded. The Sprinter was unbelievably slow compared to the Transit and Promaster.
The gas Promaster has 280 hp with 260 ft/lb of torque. No problem passing or going up big hills. Cruises down the freeway at 80 no problem.
The Ford has better towing capacity with the turbo v6 but fuel econo goes down. The Promaster is a bit cheaper and little bigger. Not much difference between the two in my opinion.
I had an Astro van before, it was smaller, slower, and got worse MPG. I think for the average North American camper, these style of vans are great.
Each person needs to look at what they need, where they want to go, and what they can afford and then decide. For me the Promaster ticked off all the boxes.
The Ford has better towing capacity with the turbo v6 but fuel econo goes down. The Promaster is a bit cheaper and little bigger. Not much difference between the two in my opinion.
I had an Astro van before, it was smaller, slower, and got worse MPG. I think for the average North American camper, these style of vans are great.
Each person needs to look at what they need, where they want to go, and what they can afford and then decide. For me the Promaster ticked off all the boxes.
The width of the Promaster at it widest point, where I have my bed set up, is 6' 3" and that's with insulation on both walls plus the fact its lower overall was the the main selling point for me. I was able to configure a setup in a van 19.5' long. Easier to get in and out with one less step in and, less affected by wind as it has a lower CG and less height. My total height is 9' with the AC on top.